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[QUOTE]And you conveniently leave out the fact that I have mentioned that bit, repeatedly. Holding back while dishing out energy that "sunders worlds" doesn't automatically mean that their full power can bust a star. [/QUOTE]
Which made it noteworthy that in your latest effort, you left it right out.
Which itself doesn't really otherwise take away from that, this entire thread, especially the other person who decided to advance a "unless you can prove what energies the Surfer's blasts are made of I can say whatever about their composition" style argument, basically exists because you are thinking wayyy too hard about the microverse.
[QUOTE]
Again, how do you figure it was a solar system sized area? They were in the microverse, an incredibly small universe. How, in anyway, would a solar system eradicating blast, be see able from outside a universe? Micro or otherwise? You realize that, for even an incredibly small blast to be see able from outside of the universe, it would have to be at least capable of destroying a galaxy? If not a fuck ton more? [/QUOTE]
Like here, for instance.
The Sentry put out planet sundering energies while holding back. The ultimate blast of such was visible back in the overlaying normal universe. He can put out a lot of energy, somewhere considerably above planet busting. That's about it.
This, Guy's, Danerys' posts can all be summed up as "attempting to analyze a thing in a way that thing does not support being analyzed."
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[QUOTE=Pendaran;149374]Which made it noteworthy that in your latest effort, you left it right out.[/quote]
Mentioning it non stop when I already pointed it out several times is redundant. I support the notion that he is a multi planet buster. When going all out he is a multi planet buster on a more massive scale. I have said this already. Even in my OP. I don't need to say it again.
[quote]Which itself doesn't really otherwise take away from that, this entire thread, especially the other person who decided to advance a "unless you can prove what energies the Surfer's blasts are made of I can say whatever about their composition" style argument, basically exists because [B]you are thinking wayyy too hard about the microverse[/B].[/quote]
I have a tendency to think too hard on things yes. I just want to get a grasp on his output. And I don't think that scan alone shouldn't really be used as proof of a "Solar System" bust, unlike some on here who [B]do[/B] use that scan as evidence of a SS busting feat.
[quote]Like here, for instance.
The Sentry put out planet sundering energies while holding back. The ultimate blast of such was visible back in the overlaying normal universe. He can put out a lot of energy, somewhere considerably above planet busting. That's about it.
This, Guy's, Danerys' posts can all be summed up as "attempting to analyze a thing in a way that thing does not support being analyzed."[/QUOTE]
Probably the smartest post here thus far. And I agree.
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[QUOTE=Pendaran;147309]Which no one should really be doing.[/QUOTE]
While this might be true, the feat is also brought up a lot for Sentry in rumbles.
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[QUOTE=Surtur;149613]While this might be true, the feat is also brought up a lot for Sentry in rumbles.[/QUOTE]
It's a solid feat to bring up for the Sentry. Like many things having to do with comics, it doesn't bear scrutiny under physics.
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[QUOTE=Cody;148916]And if his power [B]wasn't[/B] scaled down along his size. That would mean the power that he and Photon were dishing out would be capable of being seen from outside the normal universe had they not teleported to the microverse. Which would undoubtedly make them around galaxy-universe busting level as the energy they were dishing out would have completely destroyed the microverse they were fighting in. If their power was [B]not[/B] scaled down, as you seem to assume, then if they fought in their own universe instead of being transported to the microverse, then the energy they would have unleashed would be see able from the outside of their universe and more or less completely destroy their either their galaxy at minimum or their universe at the most.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I [I]think[/I] I see where you're coming from. Here's my explanation:
The Microverse, other dimension or not, is physically reached by [I]shrinking[/I]. That's all you need to do. Just shrink ridiculously small. As far as Marvel is concerned, it may as well be [I]the same dimension[/I]. It just turns out that various atoms and things are actually extremely tiny planets. To get back from the Microverse, you just... grow. That's it. Once again, you might as well not consider it another universe at all. It's the same universe, just at an extremely tiny scale. (Silly? Sure, but this was the realm of pulp '60s comic books.)
This is why I argue that a big enough light is visible from the Microverse. It just has to be big enough to be seen by the naked eye despite having been fired by a subatomic-sized being. What would be a solar-system-busting attack to a Microversian is enough to do so. (A galaxy-buster would be quite a bit larger. A universe-buster, given that I am arguing that the Microverse may as well [I]be[/I] the Marvel Universe seen at a different scale, would just... destroy the Marvel Universe.)
[QUOTE=Cody;148916]Again, if they were scaled down relative to their size, then, in order for their attacks to be seen outside of the microverse, they would have to be unleashing somewhere around galaxy-universe wrecking power. I mean if they could do it in the microverse with scaled down power, why wouldn't they be able to do the same in their own universe with their power and size [B]not[/B] scaled down?[/QUOTE]
Mathematically speaking, no, they would need nowhere [I]near[/I] galaxy-busting power to be seen at normal scale. A galaxy is freaking [I]huge[/I]. Stealing the math from another site, someone calculated the Milky Way would be about 50 meters in diameter if scaled so that the Earth was the size of a hydrogen atom. That is to say, even scaled down in power, if Sentry had fired a galaxy-buster it would have [I]exploded[/I] Iron Man and anyone nearby. A supernova-type blast, visible from light years away, (at that scale, a light year was calculated to be something like half a millimeter...) should indeed be enough to be noticeable at such a scale.
Now, if we argue that the Microverse worlds are much, much, [I]much[/I] smaller than atoms, we could reach the point where it would indeed require a galaxy-buster to be visible. But the visuals in your scan suggest roughly atom-sized planets, so that's what I'm going with here.
As for what's stopping them at normal size? Well, Reed once went to a Macromacroverse, accessible simply by [I]growing[/I]. i.e. the Marvel Universe was to this universe what the Microverse is to the Marvel Universe. I don't see any reason, should Sentry or Galactus go berserk and fire off vast quantities of energy, that their efforts [I]wouldn't[/I] be visible in that universe, if the scale required was correct.
On the other hand, it doesn't matter [I]how[/I] much real estate one can bust, it's not going to be visible from, say, the Mojoverse, (except on TV, I suppose. :P) because one gets to the Mojoverse via dimensional travel instead of growing or shrinking. I am not arguing that Sentry can put out enough energy to be seen from random other dimensions.
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And yet still, as Pendaran summed up already: [QUOTE=Pendaran;149374]
The Sentry put out planet sundering energies while holding back. The ultimate blast of such was visible back in the overlaying normal universe. He can put out a lot of energy, somewhere considerably above planet busting. That's about it.
This, Guy's, Danerys' posts can all be summed up as "attempting to analyze a thing in a way that thing does not support being analyzed."[/QUOTE]
The feat is too ambiguous to say it is or isn't a SS busting feat. It isn't something to think to hard on.
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[QUOTE=Cody;150754]And yet still, as Pendaran summed up already:
The feat is too ambiguous to say it is or isn't a SS busting feat. It isn't something to think to hard on.[/QUOTE]
As I'm pretty sure this will leap to Daenerys taking the tack of "we shouldn't use it at all!" in a new, just to put this out there, the feat is just fine for that planet busting is something at a lower ebb of the Sentry's energy blasting repertoire, it's also solid for that as he and Photon spit such crap out at each other, he remains completely unscathed in the middle of it.
You can certainly also say that based off it, the Sentry's energy projection shouldn't be capped at planet busting. Putting an ultimate limit on it gets into interpretive things.
With that said "multi planet busting" and "solar system busting" honestly feels like getting into semantics about this. This whole thread is trucking in splitting hairs. I mean, if you can waste a bunch of worlds, honestly, that's close enough.
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[QUOTE=Cody;150754]And yet still, as Pendaran summed up already:
The feat is too ambiguous to say it is or isn't a SS busting feat. It isn't something to think to hard on.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the feat just being taken at face value Nonetheless, you could figure an approximate energy spread size from the feat with effort. Specifically, if there was no reference to planet's or something being destroyed and the visibility being the only part of the feat. In such a case, you could probably question whether or not those energy could destroy the size they covered, although what big said about the micro-verse would generally mean size/spread can stand in the real-world without needing visible display of destruction in the micro. What result you'd arrive at going primarily off the visible from the real-world would, at minimum, I think be Super-nova level and without even needing to be very generous, beyond SS size.
In this case they mention the planets and stuff so you can just go off that. So, basically, ignore the visible part given the difficulty of determining it accurately and the results of that determination making the feat beyond 'the measure of acceptable' or a low-showing. Yeah, I get it. But it sounded like the purpose of this thread was to determine Sentry's energy output to a specific level and not a more vague, albeit acceptable minimum. Multiple planet-busting is still sort of vague. Like could he bust two jupiter sized planet's next to each other?
Meh. What are Sentry's other Aoe energy output showings? There is this old story-line in Jla with Jakeem Thunder. His imp fights another imp in the story. At one point they grow to the point one is holding earth in his hands like we would a basketball. What I am wondering is reality warping and stuff aside, could Sentry one'shot a being of that stature? Let's say it has the durability relative to it's size.
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[QUOTE=Daenarys Stormborn;153956]I agree with the feat just being taken at face value Nonetheless, you could figure an approximate energy spread size from the feat with effort. Specifically, if there was no reference to planet's or something being destroyed and the visibility being the only part of the feat. In such a case, you could probably question whether or not those energy could destroy the size they covered, although what big said about the micro-verse would generally mean size/spread can stand in the real-world without needing visible display of destruction in the micro. What result you'd arrive at going primarily off the visible from the real-world would, at minimum, I think be Super-nova level and without even needing to be very generous, beyond SS size.
In this case they mention the planets and stuff so you can just go off that. So, basically, ignore the visible part given the difficulty of determining it accurately and the results of that determination making the feat beyond 'the measure of acceptable' or a low-showing. Yeah, I get it. But it sounded like the purpose of this thread was to determine Sentry's energy output to a specific level and not a more vague, albeit acceptable minimum. Multiple planet-busting is still sort of vague. Like could he bust two jupiter sized planet's next to each other?
Meh. What are Sentry's other Aoe energy output showings? There is this old story-line in Jla with Jakeem Thunder. His imp fights another imp in the story. At one point they grow to the point one is holding earth in his hands like we would a basketball. What I am wondering is reality warping and stuff aside, could Sentry one'shot a being of that stature? Let's say it has the durability relative to it's size.[/QUOTE]
He never does anything like that again. Well, in terms of energy projection anyway.
It be best to stick with multi planet busting. As it is a good range. Could be on a massive scale or otherwise.
Would still need at least a SS bust to [B]maybe[/B] ko him though. Won't kill him by any means.
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I would still say, as far as it goes, it all the same feels like a hazy distinction to try and make. If you can blow up a bunch of planets, that's a good chunk of a solar system, as is. There doesn't feel like there's some huge distinctive gulf between the two concepts.
If it was otherwise someone trying to say, blowing up a planet is like blowing up a solar system, and the reason they give for that is that you could zip around and blow up all the planets in it, sure, that would be someone trying to stretch an accomplishment way too far.
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[QUOTE=Cody;143182]However, what I meant was that because it is so small, a mere planet bust would be more than capable of appearing outside of the microverse as well.
The reason the sun in said microverse does not produce enough light to appear outside of it is due to it also being a sub atomic star. It is much smaller than an actual sun and would produce less light.
Since Sentry and Photon are still operating on the same level of power they were going at prior to being shrunk, a mere mountain size explosion would also appear outside of the microverse I would assume.
As for the planet explosion appearing outside of the microverse, would that not be due to the fact that the energy the two men are putting out is mixed in with the explosion thus intensifying it's explosion?
I am just trying to understand what destructive level Sentry operates at. For a long time I always thought he was a Solar System as the minimum and a multi star buster at the most. Now I am unsure what to think on the matter. Thus thread.[/QUOTE]
I see where you're coming from with this line of thinking but considering the entire Microverse is so small that it can't even be seen with the human eye, if we followed your line of reasoning/physics the even Sentry outputting enough energy to "bust" a person in the real world would annihilate the entire microverse trillions of times over simply due to the scaling difference alone.
The most logical reasoning here is that their (Sentry and Photon) powers were not weakened per say, simply scaled down with their size, regardless of how little sense that makes from a scientific point of view. Ergo, Sentry should be more than capable of replicating the same feat in the regular universe.
Considering scaling actually places Sentry above other trans-tier beings like Thanos, I would say that Solar system is a pretty good level for him based on feats, showings and outright comparisons.
If we go by scaling and include statements and implied power, Sentry far above that and can be scaled from Skyfather+ (even the feat of holding off a cosmic cube puts him into the Skyfather+ tier) all the way up to multiversal. But pure scaling is inconsistent at best with most characters in comics like Marvel and DC so we generally need other sources of information to back that up due to the inconsistent nature of comics in general. Sentry is harder than usual due to the fact that his power levels canonically fluctuate with his mental state.
From what I understand, Sentry IS actually comparable to the Void in power as they are literally 2 sides to the same coin, meanwhile,, the closest thing we've seen to a fully stable Sentry was when he had the Death Seed, which removed his mental instability on top of the fact that the Void had left him. And in that entire arc, the only time DS Sentry showed even the TINIEST bit of effort was when he was holding off Exitar. Something that Rogue with the combined powers of literally ALL the heroes on earth couldn't do without his help.
Hope this helps.
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Might be worth pointing out here, fast forwarding to the guy's latest appearance, that when the Void muscled the Annihilus portal wide at the edge of galactic space, the way Silver Surfer described it ("several light-years wide [B]already[/B] and tearing [B]still[/B]") suggests it kept expanding an indefinite amount of time until whatever psychopower momentum the Void put on it wore off, which is the opening Beta Ray Bill got to send him back to the Negative Zone as the portal closed again.
Even without the comic giving an exact figure, it should indicate multi-solar system capacity.
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[video=youtube_share;hihEhsdwiIk]https://youtu.be/hihEhsdwiIk[/video]
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No, Nik. You don’t understand.
This is the Death Seed Sentry Thread.
By which I don’t mean it’s a thread about Death Seed Sentry. It’s a thread that has the Death Seed and happens to be about Sentry.
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[QUOTE=JuStIcE1693;4976910]Hope this helps.[/QUOTE]
I mean, it might have, six years ago...
