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Like I said at the time, the issue wasn't diversity itself, but too many top-tier characters replaced and/or dead at the same time. They got too excited with the Jane Thor thing and decided to do the same with pretty much all the main characters at once. And in the X-line, you had a rehash of the extinction plot, done worse, with the main characters of the line in the previous 15 years (Cyclops, Emma, Logan) all dead or out of the picture.
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I wonder what you'd change it to?
X-people? X-humans? Sorry that Still has man in it, X-nonbinaries? Or just X's?
Damn it's not an easy question.
It's gonna be interesting how far this goes, and how far it goes. Perhaps The Avengers is too aggressive? Perhaps the Hulk is too offensive to skinny people. Skinny Hulk anyone?
The danger is that entirely change an established franchises name, you gotta have something organic and marketable. I haven't looked at comic sales recently, but I can't imagine the SJW stuff is helping the books sell.
Sorry that's my useless rant.
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Could just be called "X" I suppose.
I'm sure people aren't offended, and most people will be completely rational about it and say don't change it, it's a brand that has been around for 55 years, and when it started the world was a different place. I still come back to the here and now though. Would the franchise be called X-Men if it was just starting today? If you think the answer to that is no, then ask yourself why. I'm pretty sure a new book franchise would not use that name, and the reason is, of course, that it would not be deemed inclusive. That, I would suggest, means that the name is probably outdated (which was the original question).
Should the name be changed? No! I don't think that would work right now. Maybe I'll feel differently after whatever is coming starting July, but there is a distinct possibility that with this massive new broom everything could well be swept clean. That might mean we never again see a comic with the title X-Men, or Uncanny X-Men. Would I still buy them? Hell, yes!
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[QUOTE=Big Joe;4413683]Could just be called "X" I suppose.
I'm sure people aren't offended, and most people will be completely rational about it and say don't change it, it's a brand that has been around for 55 years, and when it started the world was a different place. I still come back to the here and now though. Would the franchise be called X-Men if it was just starting today? If you think the answer to that is no, then ask yourself why. I'm pretty sure a new book franchise would not use that name, and the reason is, of course, that it would not be deemed inclusive. That, I would suggest, means that the name is probably outdated (which was the original question).
Should the name be changed? No! I don't think that would work right now. Maybe I'll feel differently after whatever is coming starting July, but there is a distinct possibility that with this massive new broom everything could well be swept clean. That might mean we never again see a comic with the title X-Men, or Uncanny X-Men. Would I still buy them? Hell, yes![/QUOTE]
Uncanny-X has a ring to it. X huh? Would look cool on a cover. Perhaps they'll call them House of X instead.
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[QUOTE=Big Joe;4413683]Could just be called "X" I suppose.
I'm sure people aren't offended, and most people will be completely rational about it and say don't change it, it's a brand that has been around for 55 years, and when it started the world was a different place. I still come back to the here and now though. Would the franchise be called X-Men if it was just starting today? If you think the answer to that is no, then ask yourself why. I'm pretty sure a new book franchise would not use that name, and the reason is, of course, that it would not be deemed inclusive. That, I would suggest, means that the name is probably outdated (which was the original question).
Should the name be changed? No! I don't think that would work right now. Maybe I'll feel differently after whatever is coming starting July, but there is a distinct possibility that with this massive new broom everything could well be swept clean. That might mean we never again see a comic with the title X-Men, or Uncanny X-Men. Would I still buy them? Hell, yes![/QUOTE]
Pretty much this. Certain naming conventions just fall out of style - you don't see any "Captain Snarfblatt and The Mighty Men" type teams around either for the same reason. The only reason this is even hypothetically an issue with the X-Men is that the property has managed to hang in there for damn near six decades, while a lot of others haven't.
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[QUOTE=Nimrod;4413691]Uncanny-X has a ring to it. X huh? Would look cool on a cover. Perhaps they'll call them House of X instead.[/QUOTE]
They might just use House of X going forward I suppose, I'm less than convinced by it though. I wouldn't mind though. I also wouldn't mind if they were called X-Men either if I'm honest. It is just the conventions of the day, and there are a lot of younger people reading these comics, and today's convention is different from 1963 (which is when I was born as well as the X-Men, so I'm pretty outdated too, I guess).
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16 pages? Over something that will never happen as I mentioned before the name X-Men is a recognizable brand and Disney will not walk away from that money comes before all else. I mean look at MCU TV vs MCU Films and LGBTQ+ characters the films have none or blink and you'll miss them because they don't want to risk being banned in China, Russia, and various Middle Eastern Countries.
There is a legitimate debate if it should be changed but acting like it will is just fantasy.
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[QUOTE=jpmst17;4413488]captain america is not a mantle. it's steve. he's been cap for 60 years and will be cap for 60 more. i read cap falcon in small doses, and it was fine enough, but everyone knew it was only a matter of time until steve came back. no one has a problem with many of these characters, except riri, they most likely had a problem with them trying to be iron man cap and thor[/QUOTE]
Maybe the third time’s the charm. This isn’t an objective read. Mantle passing has been happening since Secret Wars with Rhodes and Iron Man, probably even sooner than that. It’s fine if you read it that way, but many don’t just like many do.
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[QUOTE=jpmst17;4413488]captain america is not a mantle. it's steve. he's been cap for 60 years and will be cap for 60 more. i read cap falcon in small doses, and it was fine enough, but everyone knew it was only a matter of time until steve came back. no one has a problem with many of these characters, except riri, they most likely had a problem with them trying to be iron man cap and thor[/QUOTE]
How is Captain America not a mantle? It's the most like a mantle out of all the major characters. It is an identity created by the US government and appointed to a chosen individual for the purpose of representing an entire nation. It's not important to Steve's personal identity, it is a job and a responsibility that someone has to do. That's why when Thor cedes his title to Jane it's about this big journey and questioning of who he is, while all four times Steve wasn't Cap he continued to just do heroic Steve things as usual. It's not even a Spider-Man or a Hawkeye scenario where characters have to get the approval to share the name. It's not a personal thing. Expect Commander Rogers to come back in a few years.
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[QUOTE=Nimrod;4413590]I wonder what you'd change it to?
X-people? X-humans? Sorry that Still has man in it, X-nonbinaries? Or just X's?
Damn it's not an easy question.
It's gonna be interesting how far this goes, and how far it goes. Perhaps The Avengers is too aggressive? Perhaps the Hulk is too offensive to skinny people. Skinny Hulk anyone?
The danger is that entirely change an established franchises name, you gotta have something organic and marketable. I haven't looked at comic sales recently, but I can't imagine the SJW stuff is helping the books sell.
Sorry that's my useless rant.[/QUOTE]
Sales have been on the rise for several years. And the "SJW' stuff had brought in a good amount of new readers. The only downs were a result of pushing every deadpool side characters(with no marketing), and trying to kill off the xmen for the inhumans. Other then that all the titles marvel had were relatively stable.
As for cap being a mantle or not. It's is a mantle and no one should care. I enjoy sam as cap, Jane as thor, and Laura as wolverine( Jane and Laura were better the the originals). They were good changes that let writers take risk and expermant. Get use to it unless you want every story repeat. Those were neccery change as a result of the classics having been developed in a way that they cant undergone any change/ became to restrictive on what could be done with them.
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in this house we respect foolkiller and karnak
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[QUOTE=Snoop Dogg;4414042]How is Captain America not a mantle? It's the most like a mantle out of all the major characters. It is an identity created by the US government and appointed to a chosen individual for the purpose of representing an entire nation. It's not important to Steve's personal identity, it is a job and a responsibility that someone has to do. That's why when Thor cedes his title to Jane it's about this big journey and questioning of who he is, while all four times Steve wasn't Cap he continued to just do heroic Steve things as usual. It's not even a Spider-Man or a Hawkeye scenario where characters have to get the approval to share the name. It's not a personal thing. Expect Commander Rogers to come back in a few years.[/QUOTE]
probably because steve was the one guy the super soldier serum worked on. ask any casual fan who captain america is. hell, ask any comic fan who it is and the first name they will say is steve rogers. other people can be captain america briefly, but it will never stick. it will always revert back to steve.
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Isaiah Bradley, his son, grand son,the cast of Truth: Red, White & Black, union Jack, bucky barnes, black widow, red skull, and I'm assuming 1 or more new characters in the upcoming wepon pluss one shot have something to say.
And you just stated why the mantle changing isnt a problem, it always goes back. All the title change dose is it lets writers experiment, try new things, and give some characters a boost.
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[QUOTE=Dthirds3;4414101]Isaiah Bradley, his son, grand son,the cast of Truth: Red, White & Black, union Jack, bucky barnes, black widow, red skull, and I'm assuming 1 or more new characters in the upcoming wepon pluss one shot have something to say.
And you just stated why the mantle changing isnt a problem, it always goes back. All the title change dose is it lets writers experiment, try new things, and give some characters a boost.[/QUOTE]
so, if it always goes back, what is the point? if one guy is widely recognized as captain america, what difference does it make?