Convince me: Project Black Sky or Valiant?

[QUOTE=crossbones;331878]it's all a matter of taste, but i'm partial to Valiant myself. great books with nice little shared continuity.[/QUOTE]

That's what I don't like about them, everything is a crossover in Valiant! I started with X-O Manowar and Harbinger but now everything is Unity and other crossovers. I just want to read a book without having to delve into all the other books of the publisher, I quit most of DC because I got event fatigue, and I don't want to repeat that with other publishers.

[QUOTE=cajun_duck;405759]Been really busy lately. Read manowar vol. 1 and loved it.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty great isn't it? I would actually recommend getting a different Vol. 1 before you get Manowar's Vol. 2, but that's just me.

[QUOTE=Power Torch;412385]I don't know, I don't think Valiant is 100 percent the reason that path was made for them. We are in another Superhero boom, just like we were in the 90s. There is many factors too it, it could be cause Superheroes are big again due to the movies, or it could be because people are leaving Marvel and DC and are looking for different kinda superheroes, and the companies too notice, or it could be for a bunch of other reasons. But to say that Valiant made that path (or even just made that path alone) seems wrong. I don't hate Valiant, nor do I think Dark Horse made the path at all. But I believe the path was made by others and it was also made by others in the 90s as well. I am happy that Valiant is doing so well and I can't wait to check out Dr. Mirage, but I don't think we can say that they 100 percent created that path for Dark Horse to follow. Like I said I think we are just in another Superhero bang like in the 90s, and I hope this one keeps going.[/QUOTE]
Well, you're not wrong, but neither is he really. I think he really hit the nail on the head with: "they appear to be following in the path the Valiant crew successfully plowed for them." Not saying that Valiant is 100% to blame for this resurgence in non-Marvel/DC, but they really were the first small publisher in recent years to have an entire superhero shared-universe within every title they publsih. Obviously, stuff happened in the 90's, but Valiant really kicked started this whole business again in 2012. Another thing that makes Valiant's reboot so revolutionary, is that every single one of their titles are pretty fantastic. Sure, some have a few problems, but at the end of the day everything ranges from phenomenal-to-good. In the comics industry everything boils down to quantity or quality. Marvel/DC doesn't have to worry about quality because they will sell books no matter what. Valiant had/has to rely entirely on making damn good, quality comics. Nothing has dropped below a 6/10 imo. It seems like an easy feat, considering the talent at play in the independent sector, but when people look at DC/Marvel, it begins to seem almost impossible to make an entire shared-universe actually work. Valiant came back to tell people that it is possible. Dark Horse totally saw Valiant's success and decided it might be a good idea to get their own superhero shared-universe (not that that's a bad thing).

[quote]I like Dynakey though, I am reading most of there hero stuff and they don't seem to be anything like Valiants stuff. Also by creators do you mean they have some of the same writers on staff? I think thats just cause those writers are popular right now in the indie world and they fit really well.[/quote]
Yea, DynaKey clearly happened because they were trying to capture the momentum from Valiant. Why do you think the whole thing launched about the same time Armor Hunters started? And it really does read like Valiant-lite. The books aren't necessarily [I]bad[/I], but I do get a very serious "Hey, come read this because you like Valiant" vibe from it all.

[QUOTE=SocializingMogo;414099]That's what I don't like about them, everything is a crossover in Valiant! I started with X-O Manowar and Harbinger but now everything is Unity and other crossovers. I just want to read a book without having to delve into all the other books of the publisher, I quit most of DC because I got event fatigue, and I don't want to repeat that with other publishers.[/QUOTE]
But the crossovers and events are easily avoidable. For example: X-O went a total of 18 issues before its "crossover," but you could literally just ignore the entirety of Unity and completely understand what's going on. This is what Valiant does so great! You can't have a good shared-universe if you don't have crossovers or events every once in a while, and Valiant makes it very simple for people who just want to read their ongoings [I]and[/I] people who want to jump in and read everything. Honestly if you don't get to Bloodshot #9 and Harbinger #10 without thinking "Holy s**t! These guys are about to collide! This is gonna be epic, and it's gonna need way more than one book a month!", I don't know why you're even reading superhero books in the first place. Everything works so naturally in Valiant, whether it's characters crossing-over, or staying to themselves.
Honestly dude, if you really dislike crossovers that much, this entire thread isn't for you, and neither is Marvel/DC.

Also, are you implying that you dropped DC, in favor of Marvel, because of event-fatigue? Because I can't see any logic in that statement. DC (Green Lantern line notwithstanding) rarely does big events, and when it does, it doesn't take over every single comic like Marvel does. For example Forever Evil only really had to do with the Justice League and team books.

EDIT: I'm sorry, but I really take issue with this statement:
[I]"everything is a crossover in Valiant!"[/I]
It's just patently false. Like I said, you don't [I]HAVE[/I] to read any of the crossovers, but just to be clear...
1. 5 out of the 9 series haven't crossed over with anything ever.
2. Titles like Unity and X-O you would expect to cross over every once in a while, because they're so integral to the core of Valiant.
3. X-O's crossover with Unity isn't even considered a crossover by Valiant. It's just concurrent stories about the coming of Unity.
4. X-O's first event happened 25 issues in, and was born out of the story brewing in X-O.
5. Harbinger and Bloodshot had their event early and haven't had another since.

doublepost, sorry.

[QUOTE=TheFerg714;414131]Also, are you implying that you dropped DC, in favor of Marvel, because of event-fatigue?[/QUOTE]

I've dropped DC in favor of self-contained books at Image. With Valiant I'm reading trades only and I have to admit that I'm a bit behind because of the announcement of those crossovers put me off but if they can be skipped that easily I might just do that. I'm reading those books because I like the premise (a Visigoth in an alien super-suit, what's not to like about it?), not because they exist in a giant shared universe.

DC canceled Animal Man and I, Vampire and there're rumours that Swampy is getting canned too.
I dropped Batwoman when the creative team left, I still follow Wonder Woman (which I will drop at the end of Azzarello's run).
I'm not sure about Batman right now, I haven't continued past the Owl's storyline, dropped GL because it's a mess, there's not much left at DC that I'm interested in.
And I never really cared about Superman (I don't even like All-Star).

Marvel also has a few self-contained books (Hawkeye is the only one I follow currently though). I'm not too familiar with current Marvel events, I have an unlimited subscription but I mostly read older stories. Especially if there's a movie coming out I tend to read a bit about those, like Ed Brubaker's Captain America run etc.

[QUOTE=TheFerg714;414131]It's pretty great isn't it? I would actually recommend getting a different Vol. 1 before you get Manowar's Vol. 2, but that's just me.


Well, you're not wrong, but neither is he really. I think he really hit the nail on the head with: "they appear to be following in the path the Valiant crew successfully plowed for them." Not saying that Valiant is 100% to blame for this resurgence in non-Marvel/DC, but they really were the first small publisher in recent years to have an entire superhero shared-universe within every title they publsih. Obviously, stuff happened in the 90's, but Valiant really kicked started this whole business again in 2012. Another thing that makes Valiant's reboot so revolutionary, is that every single one of their titles are pretty fantastic. Sure, some have a few problems, but at the end of the day everything ranges from phenomenal-to-good. In the comics industry everything boils down to quantity or quality. Marvel/DC doesn't have to worry about quality because they will sell books no matter what. Valiant had/has to rely entirely on making damn good, quality comics. Nothing has dropped below a 6/10 imo. It seems like an easy feat, considering the talent at play in the independent sector, but when people look at DC/Marvel, it begins to seem almost impossible to make an entire shared-universe actually work. Valiant came back to tell people that it is possible. Dark Horse totally saw Valiant's success and decided it might be a good idea to get their own superhero shared-universe (not that that's a bad thing).


Yea, DynaKey clearly happened because they were trying to capture the momentum from Valiant. Why do you think the whole thing launched about the same time Armor Hunters started? And it really does read like Valiant-lite. The books aren't necessarily [I]bad[/I], but I do get a very serious "Hey, come read this because you like Valiant" vibe from it all.


But the crossovers and events are easily avoidable. For example: X-O went a total of 18 issues before its "crossover," but you could literally just ignore the entirety of Unity and completely understand what's going on. This is what Valiant does so great! You can't have a good shared-universe if you don't have crossovers or events every once in a while, and Valiant makes it very simple for people who just want to read their ongoings [I]and[/I] people who want to jump in and read everything. Honestly if you don't get to Bloodshot #9 and Harbinger #10 without thinking "Holy s**t! These guys are about to collide! This is gonna be epic, and it's gonna need way more than one book a month!", I don't know why you're even reading superhero books in the first place. Everything works so naturally in Valiant, whether it's characters crossing-over, or staying to themselves.
Honestly dude, if you really dislike crossovers that much, this entire thread isn't for you, and neither is Marvel/DC.

Also, are you implying that you dropped DC, in favor of Marvel, because of event-fatigue? Because I can't see any logic in that statement. DC (Green Lantern line notwithstanding) rarely does big events, and when it does, it doesn't take over every single comic like Marvel does. For example Forever Evil only really had to do with the Justice League and team books.

EDIT: I'm sorry, but I really take issue with this statement:
[I]"everything is a crossover in Valiant!"[/I]
It's just patently false. Like I said, you don't [I]HAVE[/I] to read any of the crossovers, but just to be clear...
1. 5 out of the 9 series haven't crossed over with anything ever.
2. Titles like Unity and X-O you would expect to cross over every once in a while, because they're so integral to the core of Valiant.
3. X-O's crossover with Unity isn't even considered a crossover by Valiant. It's just concurrent stories about the coming of Unity.
4. X-O's first event happened 25 issues in, and was born out of the story brewing in X-O.
5. Harbinger and Bloodshot had their event early and haven't had another since.[/QUOTE]

Yeah... what Ferg said. ;)

Well it seems like I was wrong about Valiant and need to order more stuff from them ;)

Below are the crossovers to date in the new Valiant:

Harbinger Wars 1 - 4 / Harbinger 11 - 14 / Bloodshot 10 - 13 (event Apr, '13 - July, '13)
Unity 1 - 4 / X-O Manowar 19 - 22 (crossover Nov. '13 - Feb, '14)
Archer & Armstrong 18-19 / Bloodshot & HC 20 - 21 (crossover Mar, 14 - Apr. '14)
Armor Hunters 1 - 4 / X-O Manor 26 - 29/Unity 8 - 11/ AH: Bloodshot 1 - 3/ AH: Harbinger 1- 3 AH: Aftermath 1 (event June '14 - Oct '14)

I think that covers them all. Maybe it just seems like a lot because three of them have occurred in the past year, or because Armor Hunters was designed to impact almost the entire line?

[QUOTE=SocializingMogo;414161]
DC canceled Animal Man and I, Vampire and there're [B]rumours that Swampy is getting canned[/B] too.
[/QUOTE]
Whaaaaat???!!!!!
Say it isn't so. I kept the flame for the "Dark" line when they did the nu52 relaunch. I read Animal Man, Frankenstien, Resurrection Man, I Vamp all to be be cancelled.
Swampy is the last of the group. Dang, I hope that doesn't happen!!

If it does it just means I try to divert that cash into another PBS or VALIANT title!

Also, for VALIANT fandom you've heard that post-Armor Hunters that the Armorines concept(first done in the 90s line) will be reintroduced in XO #30!!!

[QUOTE=SocializingMogo;414445]Well it seems like I was wrong about Valiant and need to order more stuff from them ;)[/QUOTE]

If you need a suggestion, the entire run of Archer & Armstrong has been exceptional. Strongest recommendation!

Oh I agree that Dark Horse seems to had be following that path, I just think that Val is not 100 percent to blame for that path being made is all. I really love that they had a big hand in helping Superheroes return to indie companies, and I am happy they did so. I am excited to check out Dr. Mirage and if I like it I made read more of the other titles. I read some of Bloodshot and I enjoyed it. I am just looking forward to Dr. Mirage more and like the sound of her character.

[QUOTE=Power Torch;415960]Oh I agree that Dark Horse seems to had be following that path, I just think that Val is not 100 percent to blame for that path being made is all. I really love that they had a big hand in helping Superheroes return to indie companies, and I am happy they did so. I am excited to check out Dr. Mirage and if I like it I made read more of the other titles. I read some of Bloodshot and I enjoyed it. I am just looking forward to Dr. Mirage more and like the sound of her character.[/QUOTE]

PT, not sure if Brain Boy is your jam or not, but Fred Van Lente has been doing amazing work on Valiant's Archer & Armstrong. Possibly something for you to check out?

[QUOTE=ksbord;416718]PT, not sure if Brain Boy is your jam or not, but Fred Van Lente has been doing amazing work on Valiant's Archer & Armstrong. Possibly something for you to check out?[/QUOTE]

Ya I enjoy Brain Boy. Its the best of the mini series so far. I have been thinking about reading some of that. My friend has some of the issues I think, so I will check it out if I can.

[QUOTE=Power Torch;416791]Ya I enjoy Brain Boy. Its the best of the mini series so far. I have been thinking about reading some of that. My friend has some of the issues I think, so I will check it out if I can.[/QUOTE]
Yea, Van Lente's stuff really has a specific feel. Hercules, Brain Boy, Archer & Armstrong. All of them definitely feel like a Van Lente project. I would definitely say that A&A is the funniest and most satirical he's ever been.

[QUOTE=ksbord;414489]
[B]Harbinger Wars 1 - 4 / Harbinger 11 - 14 / Bloodshot 10 - 13 (event Apr, '13 - July, '13)
Armor Hunters 1 - 4 / X-O Manor 26 - 29/Unity 8 - 11/ AH: Bloodshot 1 - 3/ AH: Harbinger 1- 3 AH: Aftermath 1 (event June '14 - Oct '14)[/B]
Yea, I would consider these the [I]big[/I] events. Armor Hunters is more of a line-wide event, whereas Harbinger Wars is simply Harbinger and Bloodshot. You don't HAVE to read the mini if you really don't want to, but it's highly recommended. (and I don't know why you wouldn't want to)
[B]Unity 1 - 4 / X-O Manowar 19 - 22 (crossover Nov. '13 - Feb, '14)[/B]
I really wouldn't call this a crossover. It's kinda like saying the latest incarnation of JLA was a crossover with JL because it was created to combat the JL. Obviously, they deal with the same story, but it's not like each issue is a different puzzle piece. If it was, I'm surprised Valiant hasn't released something containing all 8 issues.
[b]Archer & Armstrong 18-19 / Bloodshot & HC 20 - 21 (crossover Mar, 14 - Apr. '14)[/b]
Shit, I forgot about this one. It's just 2 issues each though, so no biggie.

And don't forget the Delinquents!! I'm so freakin pumped!

Tried the first 5 issues of Archer and Armstrong, while the writing and the characters are great, I don't find myself enjoying it so far. I think it could be because I find stories like this (religious conspiracy stories) to be not my thing. I found some of it funny. But just I guess the overall story is not getting me interested. I may keep reading it for a few see if it picks up. But I normally give a comic an arc and if it hooks me in I will keep reading. This one did not do that. But who knows I may give it one more arc.

A&A didnt really click with me until the faraway stuff. Overall though its a great read.