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[QUOTE=The Whovian;4104706]Agreed. I love the new trilogy. I don't understand why fans hate on them.[/QUOTE]
I am just as surprised as you. I haven't seen Solo yet, but the recent Star Wars films have been some of the best big budget blockbuster films i have seen in years.
But i have come to accept that its not possible to win over Star Wars fans. One reason being that the original films are some of the most beloved films in history. You begin with a disadvantage due to that looming shadow.
I think the best option is to go with original characters. Rogue One had the best reception among fans. Even TFA after its initial roaring success had some fans complaining about stuff like not being original, Rey being Mary Sue, etc. Sometimes i think that you just can't win over Star Wars fans. Its too broad and passionate. Whatever you do, you will be criticized. Better keep doing your job. In time hopefully there would be newer fans to replace the old ones. I have accepted the fact that the best film since ROTJ has managed to divided the fanbase into two. Perhaps, forever.
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[QUOTE=Soubhagya;4125770]I am just as surprised as you. I haven't seen Solo yet, but the recent Star Wars films have been some of the best big budget blockbuster films i have seen in years.
But i have come to accept that its not possible to win over Star Wars fans. One reason being that the original films are some of the most beloved films in history. You begin with a disadvantage due to that looming shadow.
I think the best option is to go with original characters. Rogue One had the best reception among fans. Even TFA after its initial roaring success had some fans complaining about stuff like not being original, Rey being Mary Sue, etc. Sometimes i think that you just can't win over Star Wars fans. Its too broad and passionate. Whatever you do, you will be criticized. Better keep doing your job. In time hopefully there would be newer fans to replace the old ones. I have accepted the fact that the best film since ROTJ has managed to divided the fanbase into two. Perhaps, forever.[/QUOTE]
I nearly walked out of AOTC because it didn't asked me to suspend disbelief but logic and I never saw ROTS in Theaters due to my disenfranchisement by AOTC. I liked TFA and Rogue One but TLJ was the same as AOTC for me it wasn't just a bad Star Wars film it's a bad film it looks pretty but the characters decisions make no logical sense and I'm only going to see Episode 9 because I want see how they send Leia off.
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[QUOTE=Jokerz79;4125907]I nearly walked out of AOTC because it didn't asked me to suspend disbelief but logic and I never saw ROTS in Theaters due to my disenfranchisement by AOTC. I liked TFA and Rogue One but TLJ was the same as AOTC for me it wasn't just a bad Star Wars film it's a bad film it looks pretty but the characters decisions make no logical sense and I'm only going to see Episode 9 because I want see how they send Leia off.[/QUOTE]
See. Sometimes i wonder did we all see the same film. This film pretty much taught me that films are subjective experiences. Contrary, to you i found the characters make sense. In fact, rarely do i see such a number of characters handled so well. That's my opinion. Which in the end is only an opinion. I wish we were on the same page. But its alright if we are not. Let us see how they send off Leia.
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The Prequels, IMO, had the potential to be the greatest Star Wars films. I think the story is complex in a way that really none of the Star Wars movies were before or after and could add some grey to those themes of good and evil that were so concrete in the originals. And then, I loved how essentially the good guys were the people that would become the Empire in the Originals and that shift of focus could have been really interesting.
Unfortunately, it was marred by bad script, poor performances, over-reliance on CGI which does not hold up today and just overall bad direction. A lot of the elements I wrote about above never received the development they should have. The films didn't know who their main character was, there were too many characters in important positions and no focus was given to the regular people. I'd argue that the reason the first Star Wars is so good is because you have Han Solo as an outsider to the conflict. Hell, even Luke isn't a Jedi until the last movie. By the time Anakin is a fully realized character, he's in the Jedi Machine.
The Prequels are so frustrating to me because I see that if Lucas got someone more talented than himself to help him out, they could have been incredible.
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He did have some writing help on II but it was mainly by a writer that people saw as a "Yes man"-John Hales. Although Tom Stoppard did a bit of a dialogue fix for at least part of ROTS.
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I think the easiest fix to the PT would've been to start with the genesis of the Clone Wars for the first movie, the second movie be the Clone Wars, and end with what we got in Revenge of the Sith. And probably end with Vader in suit killing a bunch of Jedi akin to his appearance in Rogue One.
I think a lot of people wanted to see the Clone Wars on film more than it was. 1.5 films dealing with the Clone Wars, the fall of the Jedi, Anakin, Return of the Sith, would've been great.
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[QUOTE=BeastieRunner;4128931]I think the easiest fix to the PT would've been to start with the genesis of the Clone Wars for the first movie, the second movie be the Clone Wars, and end with what we got in Revenge of the Sith. And probably end with Vader in suit killing a bunch of Jedi akin to his appearance in Rogue One.
I think a lot of people wanted to see the Clone Wars on film more than it was. 1.5 films dealing with the Clone Wars, the fall of the Jedi, Anakin, Return of the Sith, would've been great.[/QUOTE]
Oh, definitely. Ideally, IMO, ROTS is the second film, and the third prequel is Obi-Wan and Yoda scrambling to make contingency plans while Vader personally hunts down the remaining Jedi.
But then, who am I to argue with Lucas? The man is a visionary and ROTS is one of my favorite films.
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I'm going to take a fourth option and say the EU is the best part of Star Wars. Canon and Legends. It covers up and fills all the holes and gaps between movies and develops characters that didn't get much screentime.
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[QUOTE=The Negative Zone;4129152]I'm going to take a fourth option and say the EU is the best part of Star Wars. Canon and Legends. It covers up and fills all the holes and gaps between movies and develops characters that didn't get much screentime.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. I can see why you'd hold that position.
I guess I myself would still put the movies over the tie-ins; for me, loving the movies is the only reason the tie-ins are worth anything to me, if that makes any sense. I know plenty of people disagree (when the EU was decanonized a few years back, quite a few members of the bring back Legends movement frequently explained that the Legends tie-ins had been the thing that made the franchise matter so much to them) and I don't think they're wrong. Jus think that different fans have different things that they connect to more.
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The Prequel Trilogy suffers a bit from distracting plotlines that dead end. Overall I enjoyed TPM and ROTS but AOTC just was a complete mess of rushing to get from point A to point C with almost no logical connections. Its worst offense, to me, is that you can completely excise it out of the franchise and everything still works. I feel much the same about TLJ, its just extraneous dribble.
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[QUOTE=BeastieRunner;4128931]I think the easiest fix to the PT would've been to start with the genesis of the Clone Wars for the first movie, the second movie be the Clone Wars, and end with what we got in Revenge of the Sith. And probably end with Vader in suit killing a bunch of Jedi akin to his appearance in Rogue One.
I think a lot of people wanted to see the Clone Wars on film more than it was. 1.5 films dealing with the Clone Wars, the fall of the Jedi, Anakin, Return of the Sith, would've been great.[/QUOTE]
In a way TPM is the Genesis of the wars-The Trade Federation is pretty much one of the major Seperatist groups in the last two films. Naboo is, in a way, Palpatine's test of how playing sides against each other would work, but on a smaller scale. (Although it was also a plot to get him elected as well).
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[QUOTE=ChrisIII;4131272]In a way TPM is the Genesis of the wars-The Trade Federation is pretty much one of the major Seperatist groups in the last two films. Naboo is, in a way, Palpatine's test of how playing sides against each other would work, but on a smaller scale. (Although it was also a plot to get him elected as well).[/QUOTE]
I understand that TPM was the planting of the seeds.
I'm saying, there's no reason that could've been done closer to the start of the Clone Wars.
Have all that stuff, but now Obi and Qui-gon are Masters together in the movie, Obi just having recently been put up as one, Anakin is Qui-gon's apprentice and give Obi one. Maul gets to lay out Obi's apprentice and Anakin is there to watch Qui-gon get killed. Obi still gets to finish Maul solo but now you have shared survivor's guilt. The possibility of Anakin/Obi being peers before Obi trains him more and blames him for Qui-gon's death would've been Shakespean.
I just think they really blew the possibility of Anakin/Obi being peers on the dumb age-gap thing.
They missed out on doing a whole Clone Wars movie with Anakin getting "darker" because of the war and Obi getting "lighter." Ying and yang ...
I could go on.
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So far...
OT > ST > Spinoffs > PT. PT sucks but its best (ROTS) can match Solo and Rogue One.
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So far I am really not a fan of the Sequel trilogy. To me The Force Awakens was A New Hope 2.0. The Empire looking for a droid on a desert world. Said droid is found by a force user. At the end of the movie the rebels have to destroy a planet killing weapon. It just smacked of lazy writing to me.
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Judged strictly as trilogies without breaking them down to the individual movies, the Original Trilogy without a doubt.
It's hard to judge the new stuff because the trilogy isn't completed. I think "The Last Jedi" was okay on it's own merits but it really starts to have problems when you try to take it in continuity with the rest of the Star Wars canon.
So I'd probably say the prequels second and then the new trilogy.
