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[QUOTE=Hypestyle;5326088]so do the new Thunderbolts only work for the mayor? Are they tasked to go beyond New York City? Are their identities made public at this point?
Anybody actually thinking about reforming?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they only work for Fisk. This is kind of a carry over from Rosenberg's Punisher series where Fisk was working with Baron Zemo and relaunched the Thunderbolts as Fisk's personal superhero team(that lineup was Zemo, Moonstone, Fixer, Ghost, Radioactive Man, and Jigsaw. They didnt really do anything and the Punisher beats them all). This iteration is just Fisk's response team to Knull's takeover of the world, and he makes it extremely clear they are just basically human shields for Star in this situation.
This run is only four issues and starts with the preface that all members of the team have died in a flash forward press release by Fisk, I assume some will survive but just be considered dead to the public, either as a reward by Fisk or just faking their death.
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He created his own OC as redshirt instead of pointlessly killing established characters.
That's a good improvement.
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[QUOTE=mugiwara;5326399]He created his own OC as redshirt instead of pointlessly killing established characters.
That's a good improvement.[/QUOTE]
True, but some people are going to be obsessed with the "politically incorrect" handling of the demographics no matter what.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5325612]They lost me as soon as they killed the cool thicc snakelady. The only person of color on the team and she's the first to go? Please.[/QUOTE]
While I get where you're coming from there, I'm not sure that it is worth getting too upset that the cannon fodder character who was only created to BE cannon fodder got killed off. That was the entire point of her existence. In a way, its actually better than she got killed off as fast as she did--given her very limited panel time, she really didn't have time to earn much interest from the readers or become anyone's new favourite character. If she stuck around longer and had some cool moments along the way, and then got killed off in issue #2 or 3, [I]that[/I] would upset some people.
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Man Rosenberg runs so hot and cold for me. Hawyeye Freefall is [I]really[/I] good. I even thought his writing, if not the plotting, of his recent Amazing Spider-Man issues were strong. But this was just a nothing-burger for me. None of the characters sounded that different, the story beats were somewhat muddled and the cliffhanger, I assume, is building off recent events in ASM and I just have no interest in that version of the character (withholding name to avoid spoilers for the last page of the issue).
Not gonna be picking up the rest of the series.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5325612]They lost me as soon as they killed the cool thicc snakelady. The only person of color on the team and she's the first to go? Please.[/QUOTE]
She wasn't to first to go.
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[QUOTE=mugiwara;5326399]He created his own OC as redshirt instead of pointlessly killing established characters.
That's a good improvement.[/QUOTE]
Well, according to PMKingkalamari, Rosenberg has a list of 20 villains he wanted to use so it's likely he wanted to use established characters but Marvel shot him down.
[QUOTE=Dermie;5326564]While I get where you're coming from there, I'm not sure that it is worth getting too upset that the cannon fodder character who was only created to BE cannon fodder got killed off. That was the entire point of her existence. In a way, its actually better than she got killed off as fast as she did--given her very limited panel time, she really didn't have time to earn much interest from the readers or become anyone's new favourite character. If she stuck around longer and had some cool moments along the way, and then got killed off in issue #2 or 3, [I]that[/I] would upset some people.[/QUOTE]
She already checked a bunch of boxes that go otherwise close to unchecked. Villainous woman of color? Check. Average body type? Check. Focus on looking "cool" rather than "sexy"? Check. It sucks that a character like this is created just to be killed but we don't see other similar characters created to [I]live[/I].
For the record, I wrote this issue off as soon as they killed her so I'm not invested, I'm just replying to those who replied to me and thinking out loud.
[QUOTE=danielsan52;5326804]She wasn't to first to go. Stop being fake offended.[/QUOTE]
Oh, you silly goose.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5326816]Oh, you silly goose.[/QUOTE]
They should replace her with Phantazia. Put a mutant on the team.
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[QUOTE=Kingkalamari;5325930]Yeah, Rosenberg seems like a super nice dude but damn, why tf did he think this was a good idea unless he was trying to create controversy, especially after the blowback of the Wolfsbane ordeal?[/QUOTE]
He killed the snake lady first because she was the teleporter. without her, they had to walk, setting up everything else in the story. He didn't just get rid of her because she was a poc. there was a point to it
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[QUOTE=jpmst17;5327609]He killed the snake lady first because she was the teleporter. without her, they had to walk, setting up everything else in the story. He didn't just get rid of her because she was a poc. there was a point to it[/QUOTE]
Snake lady wasn’t first. Incendiary was. Off panel but it was obvious he was dusted.
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[QUOTE=Dreaded Porcupine;5328251]Snake lady wasn’t first. Incendiary was. Off panel but it was obvious he was dusted.[/QUOTE]
right, that's really irrelevant. She was the first to die on the mission. The point of my response is that she died for a reason, not because the author was picking on poc
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[QUOTE=jpmst17;5328302]right, that's really irrelevant. She was the first to die on the mission. The point of my response is that she died for a reason, not because the author was picking on poc[/QUOTE]
I get ya, I dont really think that changes much from it falling into the trope since there are many examples of a poc dying first as a plot beat imo.
That said, I'm definitely not here to soapbox or grill Rosenberg, and there are much more important things to dedicate energy and time to with real cruddy people out there and not someone who's genuinely nice and legit like Rosenberg is, I dont think he did it purposefully with ill intent either. If anything something like this is no different than Aliens which does close to the same thing, and Aliens is one of the best sci-fi/action/horror movies out there.
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[QUOTE=jpmst17;5328302]right, that's really irrelevant. She was the first to die on the mission. The point of my response is that she died for a reason, not because the author was picking on poc[/QUOTE]
The newbies were just fodder. Personally I would have liked to have seen them in action for a couple of issues before they were killed. When the Rhino left that did it for me. He and Batroc were the only ones who interested me. This is not the kind of Thunderbolts I’m interested in. I like the redemption concept.
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From the preview I had hoped Rhino and Snakehead could kick some ass as the animal-themed duo. But Mister Fear and Batroc still make it for me.
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[QUOTE=Nyssane;5326816]
She already checked a bunch of boxes that go otherwise close to unchecked. Villainous woman of color? Check. Average body type? Check. Focus on looking "cool" rather than "sexy"? Check. It sucks that a character like this is created just to be killed but we don't see other similar characters created to [I]live[/I].
For the record, I wrote this issue off as soon as they killed her so I'm not invested, I'm just replying to those who replied to me and thinking out loud.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, and I agree they should create more new villains that expand that representation. I was also disappointed to see her go that fast.
I guess the thing that surprised me about your reaction was the severity of it. I saw her early death and went "oh, that's too bad" and moved on--but from what you've said it sounds like your reaction was more like "this sucks; I no longer have any interest in reading this miniseries at all". Of course, you've always had a special fondness for snake-themed villains, so it hit you in a sensitive spot. ;)