Yes, I know about the Wolfman/Perez History of the DC Universe that came out in the 80s, but that's long outdated, obviously.
I can't help but look at what Marvel is doing in their History of the Marvel Universe series by Mark Waid and feel envious. DC used to have an universe as rich as Marvel's and now all that lore is lost and characters have no past. Can they get their act together and do something like that? Preferably by someone like Geoff Johns.
With constant reboots?
[QUOTE=AHRNIHAL;4574423]With constant reboots?[/QUOTE]
Well, obviously, I made sure to ask if they can get their act together first...
It would likely be a Choose Your Own Adventure the size of War and Peace.
I think it would require the current guard at DC to leave first. Who knows when that will happen. Though, the fact that DC keeps slipping in sales and losing more ground to Marvel should be a wake-up call that DC needs new leadership.
It makes one long for what could have been if only we'd gotten Mark Waid as EiC...
A history book like this has long been needed by DC. Part of what leads to all the frequent reboots is DC being unable to keep track of its own history because there is no road map. Then they screw up their back stories with hopeless inconsistencies, and force themselves into a reboot to clear up the mess.
Wolfman/Perez's History of DC was told in broad strokes but did create a semblance of coherency for quite a while.
A new iteration of this could do a lot of good so we don't end up with things like:
- Cyborg was never a past member of Teen Titans, except he was. Sometimes.
-Donna Troy was just created out of a vat of goo on P.I. to battle Diana (who can't go there), except she also was around 5 years prior as a member of Teen Titans.
I doubt it will ever happen at DC Comics again. They can't decide on a history to stay with.
You can't continue to re-write history every few years and expect a solid foundation long-term. And bringing in new writers to put their spin on a character or book by ignoring any 'history' that is or isn't there will not help the situation either.
Didio said they're working on a timeline. It was discussed here [URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?126917-DC-is-planning-on-fixing-their-timeline!"]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?126917-DC-is-planning-on-fixing-their-timeline![/URL]
[QUOTE=HandofPrometheus;4574987]Didio said they're working on a timeline. It was discussed here [URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?126917-DC-is-planning-on-fixing-their-timeline!"]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?126917-DC-is-planning-on-fixing-their-timeline![/URL][/QUOTE]
Man, best of luck to that. Because as things stand now, no way a timeline could make sense with so much stuff in flux and making no sense. And with their track record even if they do whip something up somewhat passable, by the time its published it'll be out of date already.
I mean, they've done it before, but I'm not sure if current DC could pull it off satisfactorily.
[QUOTE=Zeeguy91;4574693]I think it would require the current guard at DC to leave first. Who knows when that will happen. Though, the fact that DC keeps slipping in sales and losing more ground to Marvel should be a wake-up call that DC needs new leadership.
It makes one long for what could have been if only we'd gotten Mark Waid as EiC...[/QUOTE]
One thing I noticed in House of X / Powers of X is that Hickman is revisiting old X-Men narratives. Even the December solicits have everyone wondering if he is going to revisit some of the older Savage Land narratives that weren't finished off properly.
A good writer can come in and take the loose threads of old stories and try to give them an ending, but DC shoots itself in the foot by constantly rebooting the origins over and over. The worst part is that some franchises ignore huge chunks of the reboots, a lot of time the Batbooks ignore big pieces of the reboots, Superman tried and then abandoned everything to go back to the previous incarnation of stories. So even the reboots in the DC universe start taking on water and then pieces of the old stories start coming back because the fans and the writers want the book to tie up threads from older storylines that never got properly finished.
I feel this is what Hickman is trying to do with the X-Men, instead of creating a bunch of new characters he is going back and trying to re-purpose as many of the existing characters and tie up as many of their loose story threads as he can.
I honestly can't even get interested in Justice League Doom at all. I actually liked following Justice League Odyssey better because: 1. I love Jessica, and 2. It was on it's own and away from the convoluted mess of the Doom storyline. I have sort of gotten interested in Batman again because I want to see if they will finally keep Bruce and Selina together as an ongoing couple. For all of King's faults as a writer I like that he pulls from historical stories in his run, drawing on the history of Batman as he takes Batman down a different path.
I have trouble staying interested in DC comics because I feel disconnected from the characters I remember when I was younger. I loved Helena Bertinelli Huntress and she disappeared for a long time in the New 52 reboot and now it feels like none of the writers remember much about who she was as a character anymore. I loved Stephanie Brown's growth into Batgirl, and I would have been ok with Barbara getting back into the spandex but like Dick she could have taken a new name or even kept the Oracle name in her superhero identity and Stephanie could be her sidekick since they were already working together. There is nothing wrong with letting Barbara grow up a bit and be the elder hero teaching the younger hero. But when they put Barbara back in as Batgirl they made her seem younger than Stephanie which to me was just silly.
DC and Marvel are both bad for not wanting their characters to grow older, I get that, Superhero comics are like the old greek stories of the "Gods and Goddesses" the ageless immortals guiding the ageless mortals in the stories and plays to entertain the people. But I love it when there is some growth and the characters develop and change. I loved the period of the X-Men where Cyclops grew up and became a leader trying to find the middle way between Xavier and Magneto. I love that even with the latest franchise revamp they are doing now some of that more militant personality for Scott is holding and he is still the strong militant leader that he had grown into over the years.
This is why I like Kings run on Batman, Batman has been the same character for so long, it's nice to have some moments in the comics finally where Bruce is actually happy from time to time. Does he have to stay brooding and dark forever or is he allowed to find some balance in his life and maybe even a long term relationship that lasts more than 10 issues.
I am not sure what I would suggest about Superman other than that I welcomed them bringing back Clark, Lois, and Jonathan. I think it's ok for Superman to be married and even go on some adventures with his wife and son from time to time. It takes him in a new direction and lets him grow further as a character.
That's why I dislike the DC reboots, because I feel like it erases character growth, and it either tries to throw characters back to earlier incarnations or re-invent them altogether.
There is a reason I love Jessica Cruz over any new character, she was a new take on being a Green Lantern that didn't take anything away from Hal, John, or Kyle. In fact for a little while Jessica was Hal's trainee who he was trying to help build confidence in being a Green Lantern. She is her own character and she doesn't take anything away from the history of the Green Lanterns, she just adds to their history like all the rest of the Green Lanterns.
they could, the DC universe isn't all that confusing really, but it's likely there will be fans who are not gonna be satisfied no matter what. the problem is, what assurance do we have that some writer or editor or whoever will adhere to that road map if DC gets skittish?
[QUOTE=RachelGrey;4575222]One thing I noticed in House of X / Powers of X is that Hickman is revisiting old X-Men narratives. Even the December solicits have everyone wondering if he is going to revisit some of the older Savage Land narratives that weren't finished off properly.
A good writer can come in and take the loose threads of old stories and try to give them an ending, but DC shoots itself in the foot by constantly rebooting the origins over and over. The worst part is that some franchises ignore huge chunks of the reboots, a lot of time the Batbooks ignore big pieces of the reboots, Superman tried and then abandoned everything to go back to the previous incarnation of stories. So even the reboots in the DC universe start taking on water and then pieces of the old stories start coming back because the fans and the writers want the book to tie up threads from older storylines that never got properly finished.
I feel this is what Hickman is trying to do with the X-Men, instead of creating a bunch of new characters he is going back and trying to re-purpose as many of the existing characters and tie up as many of their loose story threads as he can.
I honestly can't even get interested in Justice League Doom at all. I actually liked following Justice League Odyssey better because: 1. I love Jessica, and 2. It was on it's own and away from the convoluted mess of the Doom storyline. I have sort of gotten interested in Batman again because I want to see if they will finally keep Bruce and Selina together as an ongoing couple. For all of King's faults as a writer I like that he pulls from historical stories in his run, drawing on the history of Batman as he takes Batman down a different path.
I have trouble staying interested in DC comics because I feel disconnected from the characters I remember when I was younger. I loved Helena Bertinelli Huntress and she disappeared for a long time in the New 52 reboot and now it feels like none of the writers remember much about who she was as a character anymore. I loved Stephanie Brown's growth into Batgirl, and I would have been ok with Barbara getting back into the spandex but like Dick she could have taken a new name or even kept the Oracle name in her superhero identity and Stephanie could be her sidekick since they were already working together. There is nothing wrong with letting Barbara grow up a bit and be the elder hero teaching the younger hero. But when they put Barbara back in as Batgirl they made her seem younger than Stephanie which to me was just silly.
DC and Marvel are both bad for not wanting their characters to grow older, I get that, Superhero comics are like the old greek stories of the "Gods and Goddesses" the ageless immortals guiding the ageless mortals in the stories and plays to entertain the people. But I love it when there is some growth and the characters develop and change. I loved the period of the X-Men where Cyclops grew up and became a leader trying to find the middle way between Xavier and Magneto. I love that even with the latest franchise revamp they are doing now some of that more militant personality for Scott is holding and he is still the strong militant leader that he had grown into over the years.
This is why I like Kings run on Batman, Batman has been the same character for so long, it's nice to have some moments in the comics finally where Bruce is actually happy from time to time. Does he have to stay brooding and dark forever or is he allowed to find some balance in his life and maybe even a long term relationship that lasts more than 10 issues.
I am not sure what I would suggest about Superman other than that I welcomed them bringing back Clark, Lois, and Jonathan. I think it's ok for Superman to be married and even go on some adventures with his wife and son from time to time. It takes him in a new direction and lets him grow further as a character.
That's why I dislike the DC reboots, because I feel like it erases character growth, and it either tries to throw characters back to earlier incarnations or re-invent them altogether.
There is a reason I love Jessica Cruz over any new character, she was a new take on being a Green Lantern that didn't take anything away from Hal, John, or Kyle. In fact for a little while Jessica was Hal's trainee who he was trying to help build confidence in being a Green Lantern. She is her own character and she doesn't take anything away from the history of the Green Lanterns, she just adds to their history like all the rest of the Green Lanterns.[/QUOTE]
You've basically summed up my feelings on this. I feel like DC had a good handle on things BEFORE the New 52, but since then they've completely lost it. And a lot of their universe loses that special feeling and mythology, which really sucks and I think its been showing up in the sales. I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I find myself drifting more and more towards Marvel because of it.
And yeah, we could say that Rebirth has brought a lot of that mythology and continuity back, but at the same time, a lot still feels so far away from what made DC so great in the 70s and 80s and even in the 90s and 2000s.
[QUOTE=Frontier;4575203]I mean, they've done it before, but I'm not sure if current DC could pull it off satisfactorily.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, maybe if Paul Levitz was still calling the shots at DC or even Geoff Johns, but...not the current management.
The handle was lost well before the New 52. Around Identity Crisis and all the changes that would henceforth bring. Not to say there were no good changes then just in a general sense, but in terms of continuity the wheels fell off because they were poorly implemented and fostered. By 2011 things were an awful mess. The New 52 comically fixed little because they didn't adhere to a proper reboot. They half-assed it so instead of starting clean with no baggage at all (really the only point to ever do a reboot in the first place) the only difference was just a smaller time frame of confusion. Now they've brought their pre Flashpoint histoy back, which was already heavily damaged, and are now trying to merge/add certain things to the point its in an even [I]worse[/I] state now. Its just complete chaos. I have no confidence it will get straightened out to any degree that's within reason (obviously with a long history, not everything fits clean, there's always going to be a suspension of disbelif there, but as Marvel has shown it can be fostered to somewhat reasonable level. DC isn't even close to even that reasonable level of stability).
[QUOTE=Zeeguy91;4575541]
Yeah, maybe if Paul Levitz was still calling the shots at DC or even Geoff Johns, but...not the current management.[/QUOTE]
Geoff Johns, yes. Paul Levitz, no. Levitz's calling card is keeping Silver/Bronze Age heroes dead and buried.
The 1990s weren't sweet times for ALL DC fans, you know? ;)
[COLOR=RED]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color]