-
I feel like a Spider-hero who incorporates their journalistic efforts into their superhero activities and vice versa might work.
-
[QUOTE=Mik;5600281]While I agree with some of the points being made, is it possible some may not like these changes because they don't care much for the new characters? Conversely, I think it's possible some might not care as much about civilian characters so they're ok with new Spider-heroes[/QUOTE]
Well, with Spider-Man I think if the focus on the Spider-Heroes dwarfs the civilian characters, I think there's an issue.
-
After OMD, Peter stopped being a character who could grow. Sure he has been stagnant before but after OMD, there was a clear line draw so you knew for sure none of his romantic pursuits nor his personality was going to grow beyond a certain point. Coupled with this stagnant growth, he simply became a person for whom stuff happened while he remained static. He was no longer a dynamic character. Just like Superman and Batman, the only left to do was to franchise him.
-
[QUOTE=John Venus;5600694]After OMD, Peter stopped being a character who could grow. Sure he has been stagnant before but after OMD, there was a clear line draw so you knew for sure none of his romantic pursuits nor his personality was going to grow beyond a certain point. Coupled with this stagnant growth, he simply became a person for whom stuff happened while he remained static. He was no longer a dynamic character. Just like Superman and Batman, the only left to do was to franchise him.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY!!!!
One paragraph summarises a whole mountain of my posts.
-
[QUOTE=John Venus;5600694]After OMD, Peter stopped being a character who could grow. Sure he has been stagnant before but after OMD, there was a clear line draw so you knew for sure none of his romantic pursuits nor his personality was going to grow beyond a certain point. Coupled with this stagnant growth, he simply became a person for whom stuff happened while he remained static. He was no longer a dynamic character. Just like Superman and Batman, the only left to do was to franchise him.[/QUOTE]
Batman and superman have never really grown.Specially Superman.batman does have a tiny bit of growth but no superhero in the big 2 companies come close to pete.
Again Spencer's run does have growth but since BND and Slott sent us back it only brings us back to pre-OMD pete.
i was hoping we could get more growth in next run but Beyond doesn't seem to be up for the job.
Besides the unclear premise the writers are ones who write him as just the jokester and an immature being.We needed a serious writer and we didn't get one.
-
[QUOTE=Mik;5597472]I think the inclusivity is a big factor in these newer developments[/QUOTE]
But the thing is that Peter Parker is maybe the most inclusive character in fiction history.
As a teen and even as an adult(to a less extent) he goes through stuff that we can relate to either directly(civilian stuff, no examples needed) or through it being metaphorical(superhero stuff like never giving up, getting back up, taking a loss, living with things not in our control, making mistakes, etc.)
As a POC I relate with Peter way more than characters that our my ethnicity and our supposed to represent me.Peter Parker as a character is the embodiment of "Anyone can wear the mask".
But when they introduce characters that actually are different they aren't as good.Again i would rather read Peter than the Spider-character of my race because he is a much more compelling character.
Also they overdid this already flimsy concept by introducing way to many characters.
Spider-Gwen, Spider-woman, Spider-girl, Madame Web, Julia Carpenter and Mattie are all white females.
Ben, Kaine, Ock Spidey are white males.
So inclusivity isn't really the thing here.
Not saying this is necessarily bad but having these many characters along with Miles,Cindy etc. in the 616 is way too much.
Also most of them have extremely small fanbases and have horrible sales numbers so can't sustain a run.
-
If you look at Spider-Man over the last twenty years, the biggest influence and energy doesn't come from 616 but AU continuities, and some of the greatest stories comes from there too:
-- Ultimate Spider-Man
-- Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane (cited by Jon Watts as his main influence on Spider-Man Homecoming)
-- Spider-Man Noir
-- Spider-Gwen
-- Spider-Man Renew Your Vows
-- Spider-Man Life Story
The Spider-Verse which has become a subfranchise is essentially all about AU Spider-Man and a way to hinge 616 Continuity to their esteem and influence without changing the continuity.
-
[QUOTE=Frontier;5600569]Well, with Spider-Man I think if the focus on the Spider-Heroes dwarfs the civilian characters, I think there's an issue.[/QUOTE]
I don't the the civilian characters should be ignored, but at the same time, as I said, if newer readers prefer these newer heroes, they won't care as much. I think both groups should get attention.
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5600905]But the thing is that Peter Parker is maybe the most inclusive character in fiction history.
As a teen and even as an adult(to a less extent) he goes through stuff that we can relate to either directly(civilian stuff, no examples needed) or through it being metaphorical(superhero stuff like never giving up, getting back up, taking a loss, living with things not in our control, making mistakes, etc.)
As a POC I relate with Peter way more than characters that our my ethnicity and our supposed to represent me.Peter Parker as a character is the embodiment of "Anyone can wear the mask".
But when they introduce characters that actually are different they aren't as good.Again i would rather read Peter than the Spider-character of my race because he is a much more compelling character.
Also they overdid this already flimsy concept by introducing way to many characters.
Spider-Gwen, Spider-woman, Spider-girl, Madame Web, Julia Carpenter and Mattie are all white females.
Ben, Kaine, Ock Spidey are white males.
So inclusivity isn't really the thing here.
Not saying this is necessarily bad but having these many characters along with Miles,Cindy etc. in the 616 is way too much.
Also most of them have extremely small fanbases and have horrible sales numbers so can't sustain a run.[/QUOTE]
Um, maybe that works for you, but for a lot of people, they actually like seeing someone who resembles them, especially when minorities have been marginalized in comics for so long.
And who says these new characters aren't good? Many people like them. They just need time to grow. Marvel can't just abandon every new hero because older fans don't like them or because their sales may not be great.
-
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;5601000]If you look at Spider-Man over the last twenty years, the biggest influence and energy doesn't come from 616 but AU continuities, and some of the greatest stories comes from there too:
-- Ultimate Spider-Man
-- Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane (cited by Jon Watts as his main influence on Spider-Man Homecoming)
-- Spider-Man Noir
-- Spider-Gwen
-- Spider-Man Renew Your Vows
-- Spider-Man Life Story
The Spider-Verse which has become a subfranchise is essentially all about AU Spider-Man and a way to hinge 616 Continuity to their esteem and influence without changing the continuity.[/QUOTE]
I agree.I love Spider-verse for this exact reason.
But Marvel being the greedy assh*les that they are bring any semi-popular spider-person who is not Peter to the 616.Miles is worse in the 616(and him being Spider-man is just him being overshadowed now ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvC3PZGX5rU[/url] in case you think I am the only one who thinks so check the comments on this video, its very recent posted less than 24 hours ago) and Gwen, etc.
-
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5601029]...[/QUOTE]
Do not share links of Comicsgate normalizers with me, just saying.
-
[QUOTE=Mik;5601026]I don't the the civilian characters should be ignored, but at the same time, as I said, if newer readers prefer these newer heroes, they won't care as much. I think both groups should get attention.
Um, maybe that works for you, but for a lot of people, they actually like seeing someone who resembles them, especially when minorities have been marginalized in comics for so long.
And who says these new characters aren't good? Many people like them. They just need time to grow. Marvel can't just abandon every new hero because older fans don't like them or because their sales may not be great.[/QUOTE]
Again not saying representation should not be thing.
Just that we don't need a Spider-person of every race for them to be relatable.
Make new characters and then let them grow instead of piggybacking on the legacy of characters who are self made.
As I said Miles has had more exposure than almost anyone with having a movie and a solo game to his name in his first decade.He has a decent sized fanbase.I meant characters like Anya Corazon who are used sparingly.They have only grown more obsolete.
Also Miles is always going to be overshadowed in 616( [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvC3PZGX5rU[/url] ). Check the comments to see how people feel about Miles.It's a very recent video, not even a day old.
-
[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;5601033]Do not share links of Comicsgate normalizers with me, just saying.[/QUOTE]
Dude.I said check the comments.
There are more people on those videos than on these forums by a mile.I didn't even see the entire video yet, only the first 2 minutes .
-
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5600905]But the thing is that Peter Parker is maybe the most inclusive character in fiction history.
As a teen and even as an adult(to a less extent) he goes through stuff that we can relate to either directly(civilian stuff, no examples needed) or through it being metaphorical(superhero stuff like never giving up, getting back up, taking a loss, living with things not in our control, making mistakes, etc.)
As a POC I relate with Peter way more than characters that our my ethnicity and our supposed to represent me.Peter Parker as a character is the embodiment of "Anyone can wear the mask".
But when they introduce characters that actually are different they aren't as good.Again i would rather read Peter than the Spider-character of my race because he is a much more compelling character.
Also they overdid this already flimsy concept by introducing way to many characters.
Spider-Gwen, Spider-woman, Spider-girl, Madame Web, Julia Carpenter and Mattie are all white females.
Ben, Kaine, Ock Spidey are white males.
So inclusivity isn't really the thing here.
Not saying this is necessarily bad but having these many characters along with Miles,Cindy etc. in the 616 is way too much.
Also most of them have extremely small fanbases and have horrible sales numbers so can't sustain a run.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
I'm black but I will always relate more to Peter than I ever will with miles, simply because he's not anywhere near as interesting or compelling to read as Peter is.
Plus it doesn't help most of what miles does is stuff Peter already did so I don't exactly need it rehashed in an almost certainly less interesting way
-
[QUOTE=Metro;5601045]Same here.
I'm black but I will always relate more to Peter than I ever will with miles, simply because he's not anywhere near as interesting or compelling to read as Peter is.
Plus it doesn't help most of what miles does is stuff Peter already did so I don't exactly need it rehashed in an almost certainly less interesting way[/QUOTE]
Exactly
Miles similar to peter in many ways and in what differences they have Peter is usually better.
Also it helps to have the (arguably)best supporting cast in comics.
Aunt May,MJ,Jonah are still unparalleled.Even smaller supporting cast like Robbie are great.
And Spider-man has the best rogue's gallery in marvel.(Only ones that come close are DC with batman and flash)
-
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5601036]Again not saying representation should not be thing.
Just that we don't need a Spider-person of every race for them to be relatable.
Make new characters and then let them grow instead of piggybacking on the legacy of characters who are self made.
As I said Miles has had more exposure than almost anyone with having a movie and a solo game to his name in his first decade.He has a decent sized fanbase.I meant characters like Anya Corazon who are used sparingly.They have only grown more obsolete.
Also Miles is always going to be overshadowed in 616( [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvC3PZGX5rU[/url] ). Check the comments to see how people feel about Miles.It's a very recent video, not even a day old.[/QUOTE]
I don't think there needs to be one for every race. I don't think anyone's said that. But Miles not getting proper characterization, for instance, doesn't mean more Spider-heroes is a bad idea. It just means Marvel needs to make more effort into differentiating these characters
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5601048]Exactly
Miles similar to peter in many ways and in what differences they have Peter is usually better.
Also it helps to have the (arguably)best supporting cast in comics.
Aunt May,MJ,Jonah are still unparalleled.Even smaller supporting cast like Robbie are great.
And Spider-man has the best rogue's gallery in marvel.(Only ones that come close are DC with batman and flash)[/QUOTE]
Again, that's because Marvel doesn't make as much effort to build up other characters
