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[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;5114287]Tell me, why is your view on Diana so fragile that allowing her to fly and being bulletproof instantly turns her into a generic hero not worth reading?
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No, you tell me why it's a good idea to take away things that make Diana unique.
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Flight has given us new and badass action sequences, new fight choreography, and a better power fantasy. [/QUOTE]
No it hasn't. Flyer vs Flyer is an incredibly common scenario, and it almost never gets done in an interesting way.
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Wonder woman does battle against an evil superman over the city or stopping a space ship from falling onto a building. It has only ever brought positives but you choose not to see that because your too dense to see anything else. You say it turns her generic but, that's not true. It lets her hang with the other super powered beings on her level, its says "hey I can do it on my on too" and that's the point that Diana is treated no different then any of the other super powered beings.
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She can already hang with the other superheroes, she doesn't need flight to be on her level.
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I mean you want proof of that, watch the new movie trailer reactions and how many people got excited thinking she was going to fly soon. People use planes to fly all the time, its boring and not fun. Flying is an ultimate power fantasy that people love seeing.
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What are you talking about? The thing in the trailer that gets people hype is her swing off lightning bolts, which is something incredibly cool that she would never have reason to do if she could fly.
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Trapped? where? on a island or something? NO. you think way to small. Diana has been trapped in other dimensions, planets, in subatomic worlds, Hell, heck she's even been trapped in the world under our world.
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And it's better if Diana can be trapped on an island in addition to all those places. There are stories that you can tell on an island that you can't tell in other dimensions, other planets, subatomic worlds, or underground biomes
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Your idea of interesting boils down to someone distracting Diana while they go after civilians or Diana's loved ones, which.... wow.... so new... how creative. She suddenly looses her superspeed and intelligence because she got distracted and isn't faster than a bullet.[/QUOTE]
Better than throwing away potential because of and obsession with power levels
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[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;5114330]No, you tell me why it's a good idea to take away things that make Diana unique.
No it hasn't. Flyer vs Flyer is an incredibly common scenario, and it almost never gets done in an interesting way.
She can already hang with the other superheroes, she doesn't need flight to be on her level.
What the fuck are you talking about? The thing in the trailer that gets people hype is her swing off lightning bolts, which is something incredibly cool that she would never have reason to do if she could fly.
And it's better if Diana can be trapped on an island in addition to all those places. There are stories that you can tell on an island that you can't tell in other dimensions, other planets, subatomic worlds, or underground biomes
Better than throwing away potential because of and obsession with power levels[/QUOTE]
And as expected it all boils down to "its always been that way", what a shocker. I don't think depowering a female superhero is particularly empowering or feminist. There is no potential that you've offered in returned, There is not a single story that an island can tell that a planet or dimension can't.
Go read someone else, Diana is clearly not for you. You think not flying and having her get shot at is necessary for her to be a unique character. I'm done arguing with you, I'll just be here laughing when you get pissed off that Diana isn't doing insanely fun or powerful things because she's too busy dealing with randoms with guns.
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Well, how much should her powers be from her amazonian training?
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;5113789]I buy that Wonder Woman is fast and skillful enough she can make sure the bullet ricochet safely, but this doesn't explain why this is not a problem for the Superfamily
The second answer is better [/QUOTE]
I'm a Wonder Woman fan first and foremost, but for the Super-family ... maybe their Kryptonian DNA means that they have a higher ... mass density (or some other scientific / techno babble) which means that bullets which hit them are "flattened" and fall harmlessly to the floor without ricocheting?
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5114517]Well, how much should her powers be from her amazonian training?[/QUOTE]
I see amazons as kind of like martial arts masters in Chinese myth. their stats would say normal human, but their training allows them to de superhuman feats. Diana has that training as well, but it's amplified by her semi-divine nature. If it has to do with physicality (strength speed etc.) then it comes from her nature. If it's skill-based (lasso, and other weapons, talking to animals etc.) then it's amazon training.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5114517]Well, how much should her powers be from her amazonian training?[/QUOTE]
No "powers" from Amazonian training. BUT, her Amazonian training means that she has "mastered" all of her powers to their fullest extent. As a vague example, an "ordinary" person suddenly gifted super speed would be unable to control and harness that ability with any level of skill. But, Diana's training means that she has mastered it and is able to combine it with other Amazonian taught skills and knowledge, like tactical planning and threat assessment.
I'm not opposed to some of her powers being ... augmented by Amazonian training, for example, communion with animals, an ability to "sense" magic / magical artifacts / magic users, maybe an aspect of her advanced healing is due to her scientific and magical knowledge of the principles behind the purple healing ray, etc.
For me, I mainly want to ensure that Diana is unique among the Amazons. That's not to say that "regular" Amazons can't be exceptional heroes, including humans who receive Amazonian training (e.g. Donna Troy), including with the assistance of magical artifacts or "blessings" from the Greek gods (and other mythological beings).
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In a sense, I this is why I like Mala. She almost won. This is why I kind of like to see Diana nearly losing in the contest. So with Amazonian fighting styles how would they learn about these? Would it be due to some women being reborn on the Island knowing this in their past life? Or athena teaching them modern fighting styles?
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5114517]Well, how much should her powers be from her amazonian training?[/QUOTE]
Thematically, all of her powers should come from her training.
[QUOTE=masterwitcher88;5114440]There is not a single story that an island can tell that a planet or dimension can't.
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Yes there is.
Do you know what you can find on an island that you can't find in an alternate dimension, an underground world, or another planet? Normal people.
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[QUOTE=Agent 86;5114645]No "powers" from Amazonian training. BUT, her Amazonian training means that she has "mastered" all of her powers to their fullest extent. As a vague example, an "ordinary" person suddenly gifted super speed would be unable to control and harness that ability with any level of skill. But, Diana's training means that she has mastered it and is able to combine it with other Amazonian taught skills and knowledge, like tactical planning and threat assessment.
I'm not opposed to some of her powers being ... augmented by Amazonian training, for example, communion with animals, an ability to "sense" magic / magical artifacts / magic users, maybe an aspect of her advanced healing is due to her scientific and magical knowledge of the principles behind the purple healing ray, etc.
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I really like the example here. Amazon training should be just that, training. Skills that she learns that help her understand, master, and improve what she has.
[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5114683]In a sense, I this is why I like Mala. She almost won. This is why I kind of like to see Diana nearly losing in the contest. So with Amazonian fighting styles how would they learn about these? Would it be due to some women being reborn on the Island knowing this in their past life? Or athena teaching them modern fighting styles?[/QUOTE]
I feel like they should make their own fighting style with elements from the cultures the amazons represent. From the more traditional Northern Shaolin to Greco-Roman fighting styles to modern kick boxing and jujitsu. Go the whole nine yards. I think having the title as "DC's greatest warrior" Diana would be skilled in all forms of combat unarmed and armed but focus on pankration, jujitsu, muay thai, and sanda.
As for who trains her, Phillipus starts her off and is her primary teacher as she was back in the day then, Athena would train Diana at night the way Ares did in the Nu52. So, Diana is getting training from the greatest general in amazon history and the Goddess of warfare. Afterwards, Diana just becomes a fan of the sport and trains in her own personal style from all the forms she's learned.
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I mean the Amazons are Superhumans. So where are the Amazons strength and skill-wise? If Diana isn't the only kid. I would easily just have it be either reborn souls of young girls who died due to their parents abandoning them or killing them. Diana is the only one born from Clay.
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[QUOTE=AmiMizuno;5114683]In a sense, I this is why I like Mala. She almost won. This is why I kind of like to see Diana nearly losing in the contest. So with Amazonian fighting styles how would they learn about these? Would it be due to some women being reborn on the Island knowing this in their past life? Or athena teaching them modern fighting styles?[/QUOTE]
I think Diana can have super powers, but still almost lose the contest. While living on Themyscira, Diana wouldn't have been ... challenged to the necessary degree to really discover, "unlock" and harness all of her super powers. Sure, she knows that she's pretty strong and fast, but otherwise she's not leaps and bounds ahead of her fellow Amazons who potentially have thousands of years more experience than her. I guess I can see her super powers kind of like being a "muscle" - Diana has to work to activate and grow them and it's not until she's in man's world and facing real threats that she discovers all of that powers. It would be similar to the first live action film where Diana discovers various abilities and just how substantial they are as she's throw into different situations, starting with her "boosh".
As for the Amazons and their knowledge, I guess they could acquire knowledge through various means - a magic mirror / portal to observe man's world, regularly sending out Amazonian scouts to acquire knowledge and return to Themyscira, taking in women who wash up on their shores (usually due to some intervention from the Greek gods), learning from former prisoners who Diana brought to Themyscira for rehabilitation or some aspect of women throughout all of time being "saved" from death and transported to the island or reborn on the island due to their own heroics in man's world and thanks to some divine intervention.
But, in most respects, I like the idea of the Amazons continually developing and furthering their own knowledge, including in martial arts, to such an extent that they can "equal" or even better modern developments in man's world, albeit in unique and possibly magically influenced / enhanced ways.
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[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;5114748]Thematically, all of her powers should come from her training.
Yes there is.
Do you know what you can find on an island that you can't find in an alternate dimension, an underground world, or another planet? Normal people.[/QUOTE]
She intereacts with normal people all the time. Flight and bulletproof doesn't change that at all.
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[QUOTE=Jcogginsa;5114269]Yes it does
No, she can't be trapped in a place if she can just fly away at any time. And being more 'effective' doesn't add anything to the story[/QUOTE]
No it doesn't make her unique. Jets or for that matter invisible vehicles aren't a WW only thing.
She can still and has been trapped in different places while having her flight.
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Diana gets her powers from the Amazon Combat Method which grants her super strength, speed , durability and flight. She has sharper than normal sight and hearing.
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2. Diana would never lead people into war because her goal would always be to end the war with the fewest amount of casualties as possible
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Which is sometimes going to mean actually fighting a war in the first place. What do you think is supposed to do when someone is slaughtering people and has no intention of stopping?
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The amazons have actually been in Wars because their enemies started it. In Marston's we clearly see this. Ares sent his men but the Amazons fought with them. We even have a shield and swords. So sometimes peace isn't the answer but self-defense. Don't say something you can prove
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Clearly the Amazons were going to battle if they needed to. Why else be in armor? I think you need to stop because Diana has been in battles because there was no getting through to her enemies. There were no other ways. Same with the Amazons. You keep saying this isn't Wonder Woman. The Amazons or Wonder Woman didn't battle with swords. That's not the case always. Jcogginsa Marston clearly shows us both the Amazons fighting and Diana fighting in Wars and Battle.
