[QUOTE=BruceWayneJr.;4319904]But jet's here to explain to that country what's happening in that country.
You've got to love it.[/QUOTE]
I mean its almost like Americas a world power with global ramifications when its policy goes insane. Its not like I've got anything to talk about in my country, political issues just froze at the end of 2016 with Brexit.
[QUOTE=DrNewGod;4319639]Generally, I tend to agree with WestPhillyPunisher's point of view on politics, including a great deal of what WestPhillyPunisher says here, but racist privilege panic was not the sole motivator for Trump voting among Rural Americans. (for the record, I voted for Clinton, and I cannot imagine any opposing candidate that would drive me into voting for Trump)
Yes. They were blind, and stupid to believe that Trump would serve anything but his own interests. Yes, there were many seething at the "indignity" of "enduring" the administration of the nation's first Chief Executive of Color, almost all of whom were further horrified at the prospect of having to endure the administration of the nation's first Female Chief Executive. Those, however, were not the only factors.
The desperate are often blind and stupid in their decisions. Rural Americans have been watching their communities wither for generations, seeing the lack of opportunities scatter their families far and wide. Some of this has been decisions of their own making, but much of it has also been increasingly efficient supply chains and communication systems concentrating wealth in the hands of an ever smaller number of insiders. Such Rural Americans found the ascent of such insiders particularly galling when said insiders indulged in lecturing Rural Americans on their non-progressive backwardness.
The Clintons long ago allowed themselves to be seen as self-important insiders of the kind Rural Americans hate. Moreover, Secretary Clinton earned a well-known reputation for disdain of The Armed Forces, an institution dear to Rural Americans, who by far provide the largest percentage of the services' volunteers. Being desperate, and outraged, some of these Rural Americans foolishly assumed that Trump couldn't do any worse, or deceived themselves that he was going to fix what was wrong with us just on the grounds that he seemed different than what had gone before.
Yes. There was bigotry among Trump's supporters. No. It was not the only reason that some unwisely voted for Trump.[/QUOTE]
What exactly are these rural voters hoping that Trump will do to solve their problems though, reverse centuries of economic and societal progress just to serve the interests of an increasingly narrow minority demographic? The growth of urban centers at the expense of rural areas has been an ongoing process since the start of the industrial revolution, and will continue to happen regardless of what party is in power because of the simple fact that as cities accumulate more wealth and power, they attract more people to move there which in turn makes them even wealthier and more powerful. And despite the simplistic GOP rhetoric, most city dwelling Americans are not well-connected elites but rather regular folks who grew up in farm towns and suburbs and decided to chase opportunities in the big city rather than wallowing in misery back home. And sure, perhaps it is a big callous to minimize the sufferings of middle America, but quite frankly those same people have absolutely no qualms dismissing any allegations of prejudice against minorities, women, or gays, so why exactly should we prioritize their concerns over those of people who are objectively far worse off?
[QUOTE=PwrdOn;4320486]What exactly are these rural voters hoping that Trump will do to solve their problems though, reverse centuries of economic and societal progress just to serve the interests of an increasingly narrow minority demographic? The growth of urban centers at the expense of rural areas has been an ongoing process since the start of the industrial revolution, and will continue to happen regardless of what party is in power because of the simple fact that as cities accumulate more wealth and power, they attract more people to move there which in turn makes them even wealthier and more powerful. And despite the simplistic GOP rhetoric, most city dwelling Americans are not well-connected elites but rather regular folks who grew up in farm towns and suburbs and decided to chase opportunities in the big city rather than wallowing in misery back home. And sure, perhaps it is a big callous to minimize the sufferings of middle America, but quite frankly those same people have absolutely no qualms dismissing any allegations of prejudice against minorities, women, or gays, so why exactly should we prioritize their concerns over those of people who are objectively far worse off?[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree anything that you say. I still maintain that there were reluctant Trump voters, and the vote wasn't 100% racism/privilege-panic driven. None of that minimizes the fact that Trump's tent houses a large number of hideous human beings, nor does it excuse those who refused to face just what they were choosing to empower with their vote.
I will suggest that regarding everyone living in Trumpistan as: [QUOTE=PwrdOn;4320486]...those same people have absolutely no qualms dismissing any allegations of prejudice against minorities, women, or gays...[/quote] is no better than the Rural refusal to see that [QUOTE=PwrdOn;4320486]...most city dwelling Americans are not well-connected elites but rather regular folks...[/quote]
[QUOTE=Toreador;4320358]Of course ethically it' the right thing to do but it's also an exercise in futility if you can't get enough Republicans on board. The Republicans left their ethics on the side of the road a long time ago. And it would take months to set up and try the case tying up time and effort needed to win back the White House and the Senate for next years election. Better to keep bringing out the report to weaken Trump's campaign and fire up the public to vote him (and McConnell) out of office.
Even if Congress did go through the process of the procedure Trump and cronies will be putting up blocks to slow it down and of course McConnell will make some kind of statement that it can't be done during an election year and will have to wait until after the election.[/QUOTE]
I think there is a lot to say for making the Republicans take that step to protect Trump. Conceding defeat ahead of time just because Republicans is a bad way to conduct politics, IMO. Make them do it.
[QUOTE=Tendrin;4320836]I think there is a lot to say for making the Republicans take that step to protect Trump. Conceding defeat ahead of time just because Republicans is a bad way to conduct politics, IMO. Make them do it.[/QUOTE]
This idea that we're going to expose the republicans in leadership who have protected Trump or won't vote for his impeachment, etc., and that they will have to answer for their actions doesn't really carry any weight. Nothing will be exposed. The people who voted for Trump and will again in 2020 don't want the repbulicans to vote for impeachment and would view it as these noble legislators standing with the duly elected president who is being attacked by the deep state and the un-American dems who are just looking for a reason to get him out.
The people who are not like us and don't heavily follow all this shit will see the headlines about dems trying to impeach and Trump winning and that will be enough.
I heard this one dude who is more conservative but doesn't really follow the news in great detail say "he heard the Mueller report cleared Trump." The spin is effective and people like that don't read or care that some lawyer on Twitter might break down the report and highlight why it doesn't clear him.
[QUOTE=ZombieHavoc;4320963]This idea that we're going to expose the republicans in leadership who have protected Trump or won't vote for his impeachment, etc., and that they will have to answer for their actions doesn't really carry any weight. Nothing will be exposed. The people who voted for Trump and will again in 2020 don't want the repbulicans to vote for impeachment and would view it as these noble legislators standing with the duly elected president who is being attacked by the deep state and the un-American dems who are just looking for a reason to get him out.
The people who are not like us and don't heavily follow all this shit will see the headlines about dems trying to impeach and Trump winning and that will be enough.
I heard this one dude who is more conservative but doesn't really follow the news in great detail say "he heard the Mueller report cleared Trump." The spin is effective and people like that don't read or care that some lawyer on Twitter might break down the report and highlight why it doesn't clear him.[/QUOTE]
It's almost like making very large, media driving statements are the only way to counteract that.
There's just way too much concession here.
[QUOTE=Tendrin;4320979]It's almost like making very large, media driving statements are the only way to counteract that.
There's just way too much concession here.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but I feel like trying to impeach him is conceding 2020.
Not to mention all the Timothy McVeighs that it will result in.
She lived like 20yrs there. Sure she may have grown up in Chicago but she left for college.
I personally grew up in an area called the Eastern Townships but I left for college and have lived around Montreal for around 20 years so if someone says I'm from there they're not wrong.
In addition having lived and raised a child in Arkansas should've been something to draw on not hide.
Hi everybody, I'm french and I'm following all that is happening in the U.S. since Donald Trump's election with curiosity and disgust. But I have an impression that things are right now accelerating, that we are all coming to the moment where all things come to a point.
Is that your sentiment too?
[QUOTE=mogwen;4321876]Hi everybody, I'm french and I'm following all that is happening in the U.S. since Donald Trump's election with curiosity and disgust. But I have an impression that things are right now accelerating, that we are all coming to the moment where all things come to a point.
Is that your sentiment too?[/QUOTE]
While I would agree things are accelerating, I don't believe there's a chance he'll be removed from office and only about 50/50 whether the house impeaches him. Things will continue, and knowing Trump this is not the bottom of the barrel, until the election next year.
[QUOTE=ZombieHavoc;4320990]Yeah, but I feel like trying to impeach him is conceding 2020.
Not to mention all the Timothy McVeighs that it will result in.[/QUOTE]
I think this is nonsense. Our actions can't be rooted in fear of creating McVeighs. That is, again, conceding too much power to the far right.
[QUOTE=DrNewGod;4320825]I don't disagree anything that you say. I still maintain that there were reluctant Trump voters, and the vote wasn't 100% racism/privilege-panic driven. None of that minimizes the fact that Trump's tent houses a large number of hideous human beings, nor does it excuse those who refused to face just what they were choosing to empower with their vote.
I will suggest that regarding everyone living in Trumpistan as: is no better than the Rural refusal to see that[/QUOTE]
I don't really see an equivalence between the two, especially because I didn't even go so far as to accuse Trump voters of being racist, just callous and indifferent toward the struggles of minorities, which is indisputably true no matter how you slice it. Besides, Democrats can't stop falling over each other to try and reach out to rural white voters, and it just hasn't worked at all, because apparently demonstrating that liberal policies are in their economic interest is just more globalist elites trying to talk down to them with our fancy book learnins. As far as I'm concerned, the Bubba demographic is a lost cause and we shouldn't spend any more time or energy trying to appeal to them, or God forbid, try to tailor policies that benefit them at the expense of far more deserving people. Sure they have disproportionate electoral power for now, but that won't last long at the rate that they're self-destructing.
[QUOTE=Tendrin;4320836]I think there is a lot to say for making the Republicans take that step to protect Trump. Conceding defeat ahead of time just because Republicans is a bad way to conduct politics, IMO. Make them do it.[/QUOTE]
Thing is Republicans did something similar with the ACA trying to repeal it (with what, something like 8 separate attempts) knowing that Obama would never sign it. All those attempts after the first one just made them look foolish and a waste of money (wasn't the cost figured around $50M?).
If the impeachment vote passes through and fails in the Senate Trump will take it as a win and start doing victory laps and him and Fox news crowing as loud as he can how this proves how he was innocent all along. Just look at what he did with this report. People have gotten lazy, they want easy answers/solutions. Not do anything like in depth research.
[QUOTE=mogwen;4321876]Hi everybody, I'm french and I'm following all that is happening in the U.S. since Donald Trump's election with curiosity and disgust. But I have an impression that things are right now accelerating, that we are all coming to the moment where all things come to a point.
Is that your sentiment too?[/QUOTE]
Sadly, no. I guess we are heading closer to the 2020 election, but that would be the only acceleration I see; as well as the only likely possibility of getting rid of Trump. As far away as that actually is, I would be amazed if any other process could get him out of office quicker.
The pessimist in me thinks we won't even get rid of him in just one term. Expecting all kinds of chicanery and shenanigans leading into and around that election.
[QUOTE=Toreador;4322387]Thing is Republicans did something similar with the ACA trying to repeal it (with what, something like 8 separate attempts) knowing that Obama would never sign it. All those attempts after the first one just made them look foolish and a waste of money (wasn't the cost figured around $50M?).
If the impeachment vote passes through and fails in the Senate Trump will take it as a win and start doing victory laps and him and Fox news crowing as loud as he can how this proves how he was innocent all along. Just look at what he did with this report. People have gotten lazy, they want easy answers/solutions. Not do anything like in depth research.[/QUOTE]
And if the House doesn't impeach him then obviously he's done nothing wrong and can take a victory lap about his exoneration and any investigations are the Dems just being 'angry'. You know, the stuff he's /already doing/. Again, we need to stop including the Repuyblicans being Republicans in our calculus, because they are always going to do the worst thing they can do, and instead need to decide what the right thing to do is and just do that.