Printable View
[QUOTE=Covetous_One;5660000]They do, though to have a section of culture anchored to the demonization of a woman who was mentally unstable due to outside forces is really lacking in substance and mutants should really make peace with it.[/QUOTE]
I think a big part of the issue from the mutants' perspective is "what if it happens again?" and that's scary.
I believe someone on here said she can't do it again because she doesn't have that power? If so, I don't think all mutants know that.
[QUOTE=Covetous_One;5660098]Making peace doesn’t mean being understanding or being good with it. Making peace is building up and moving forward from what happened. Mutants don’t have to drag Wanda if they have a way to fix it. The Crucible w is just a way to feed the hatred and add more unnecessary bloodshed.[/QUOTE]
No the Crucible was doing two things 1) Fixing Wanda's mistakes 2) Teaching mutants that if you want your mutant heritage back it is going to be a constant fight. That as long as you are mutants you will need to fight in order to survive in this world because you existents is viewed as a threat by others. You must be ready to fight and die for you're mutantdom. The 2nd part is pretty much in line with Apocs ideology
[QUOTE=MaximoffTrash;5660295]It's X-office's fault to not leave her be and instead use her as a plot device.
They are allowed to yes, but somehow fans aren't allowed to complain the poor treatment? Double standard much?[/QUOTE]
Krakoa is fixing Wanda's mistake of all the lives she has taken. I was reacting to this idea that Wanda has been demonized by mutants. In my opinion it is pretty clear and rational reaction for mutants to not like Wanda or even fear her for what she has done. The person who commented may it seem like it was some unjust treatment for how the mutants are treating Wanda which I disagreed with
[QUOTE=MaximoffTrash;5660297]Wanda being insane is her being used as a plot device for mutants in the first place.
But I guess mutants are entitled to her now somehow?[/QUOTE]
Yes because M Day is a part of their history and a big part at that. I'm not seeing how you don't understand that. They shouldn't need to dance around this time period just because it paints Wanda in a not so flattering light. If other offices want to write Wanda going on dates with Voodoo or being a mother figure to Billy that's their business
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5660328]No the Crucible was doing two things 1) Fixing Wanda's mistakes 2) Teaching mutants that if you want your mutant heritage back it is going to be a constant fight. That as long as you are mutants you will need to fight in order to survive in this world because you existents is viewed as a threat by others. You must be ready to fight and die for you're mutantdom. The 2nd part is pretty much in line with Apocs ideology
Krakoa is fixing Wanda's mistake of all the lives she has taken. I was reacting to this idea that Wanda has been demonized by mutants. In my opinion it is pretty clear and rational reaction for mutants to not like Wanda or even fear her for what she has done. The person who commented may it seem like it was some unjust treatment for how the mutants are treating Wanda which I disagreed with.[/QUOTE]
Except most of the newer mutants still see Scarlet Witch as the "Antichrist" mutants of all Krakoa.
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5660328]No the Crucible was doing two things 1) Fixing Wanda's mistakes 2) Teaching mutants that if you want your mutant heritage back it is going to be a constant fight. That as long as you are mutants you will need to fight in order to survive in this world because you existents is viewed as a threat by others. You must be ready to fight and die for you're mutantdom. The 2nd part is pretty much in line with Apocs ideology
Krakoa is fixing Wanda's mistake of all the lives she has taken. I was reacting to this idea that Wanda has been demonized by mutants. In my opinion it is pretty clear and rational reaction for mutants to not like Wanda or even fear her for what she has done. The person who commented may it seem like it was some unjust treatment for how the mutants are treating Wanda which I disagreed with
Yes because M Day is a part of their history and a big part at that. I'm not seeing how you don't understand that. They shouldn't need to dance around this time period just because it paints Wanda in a not so flattering light. If other offices want to write Wanda going on dates with Voodoo or being a mother figure to Billy that's their business[/QUOTE]
I thought Krakoa was so mutants didn’t need to fight if they didn’t have to, then they become no different than the Arraki. What is the actual need for a blood battle but to reinforce the hate instead of teaching them to rise above it? What would have been the end goal of teaching a distorted history? The same result we got now her death or torture. Having a section of culture rely on hate to keep it going doesn’t end well and it only holds them back in the long run. Not saying forgive her, but don’t put so much energy into a person that currently doesn’t possess the power to do it again.
[QUOTE=Jbenito;5660309]I think a big part of the issue from the mutants' perspective is "what if it happens again?" and that's scary.
I believe someone on here said she can't do it again because she doesn't have that power? If so, I don't think all mutants know that.[/QUOTE]
It was stated in Uncanny Wanda could do it with sufficient time and an energy source, but Wanda wouldn’t seek out energy to do another Decimation since continuously she wouldn’t do it.
[QUOTE=LAWtoyoto 432;5660335]Except most of the newer mutants still see Scarlet Witch as the "Antichrist" mutants of all Krakoa.[/QUOTE]
As they should mainly the New X-men Academy X students for the stuff that happened post M day
[QUOTE=Covetous_One;5660347]I thought Krakoa was so mutants didn’t need to fight if they didn’t have to, then they become no different than the Arraki. What is the actual need for a blood battle but to reinforce the hate instead of teaching them to rise above it? What would have been the end goal of teaching a distorted history? The same result we got now her death or torture. Having a section of culture rely on hate to keep it going doesn’t end well and it only holds them back in the long run. Not saying forgive her, but don’t put so much energy into a person that currently doesn’t possess the power to do it again.[/QUOTE]
Krakoa is for mutants to feel safe that doesn't mean they don't need to be prepared for attacks to come to Krakoa's boarders.
All ready Krakoa has been invaded 5 times. 1)Emypre plant people 2) Hoardculture 3) Zeno 4)Amenth 5) Brood
The Crucible is torture porn devised for and by a mutant that loved torturing other mutants for not being “strong enough”.
[QUOTE=Bunch of Coconuts;5660416]The Crucible is torture porn devised for and by a mutant that loved torturing other mutants for not being “strong enough”.[/QUOTE]
No it was about the understanding that what comes with being a mutant is you will have to fight. The will of never giving up even if the odds are clearly not in your favor. If you are not willing to fight you are better off staying a human were you won't be hunted
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5660422]No it was about the understanding that what comes with being a mutant is you will have to fight. The will of never giving up even if the odds are clearly not in your favor. If you are not willing to fight you are better off staying a human were you won't be hunted[/QUOTE]
Nah. It’s torture porn so Apocalypse was able to “relax” after a “long hard day”.
How would a de-powered mutant hope to even compete against Poccy? It’s a veiled attempted to simulate a struggle. Poccy used it to get his rocks off, and some mutants bought into it.
Torture porn. He has video archives and got off to it.
[QUOTE=Bunch of Coconuts;5660429]Nah. It’s torture porn so Apocalypse was able to “relax” after a “long hard day”.
How would a de-powered mutant hope to even compete against Poccy? It’s a veiled attempted to simulate a struggle. Poccy used it to get his rocks off, and some mutants bought into it.
Torture porn. He has video archives and got off to it.[/QUOTE]
The goal was not to beat Apoc the goal was to not give up that was how you won. Even though there is clearly no chance of you winning while your body is in pain and nothing you do is effective in changing the outcome you keep going.
The council allowed the Crucible because they can't keep allowing mutants to be unprepared in terms of what they are going to face as mutants. It's a harsh and brutal realty but it is realty I mean in COTA those kids got caught and were about to be experimented on. That's what they are facing. That's what the Crucible was preparing them for.
[QUOTE=Outburstz;5660437]The goal was not to beat Apoc the goal was to not give up that was how you won. Even though there is clearly no chance of you winning while your body is in pain and nothing you do is effective in changing the outcome you keep going.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for just elaborating my point for me. These were never fair contests to actually teach anyone anything. Apocalypse just wanted to get off at night. He thrived on subjugating others. This is just a method with which he wasn’t openly opposed.
The fact that he convinced the council it was a good idea is where it gets weirder.
Storm had some amount of objection, though.
[QUOTE=Bunch of Coconuts;5660451]Thank you for just elaborating my point for me. These were never fair contests to actually teach anyone anything. Apocalypse just wanted to get off at night. He thrived on subjugating others. This is just a method with which he wasn’t openly opposed.
The fact that he convinced the council it was a good idea is where it gets weirder.
Storm had some amount of objection, though.[/QUOTE]
My interpretation as to why most have gone along with is that they wanted to have set of traditions and culture that could unite them as people, in a way, taking something that has always been a cause of fear, being killed for what they are, and turning it to something they could take agency of.
Sadly I do think titles like Way of X or even X-Factor were needed earlier in the era to have these areas explored better, but then we lost one and the other is focused on other things for now. I think the crucible will not be a lasting tradition, and something more humane will take its place.
It would be interesting to know if Moira had a hand on setting that up for some reason as well.
[QUOTE=Bunch of Coconuts;5660429]Nah. It’s torture porn so Apocalypse was able to “relax” after a “long hard day”.
How would a de-powered mutant hope to even compete against Poccy? It’s a veiled attempted to simulate a struggle. Poccy used it to get his rocks off, and some mutants bought into it.
Torture porn. He has video archives and got off to it.[/QUOTE]
Completely agree, I don't know how some readers find this a good narrative, it's how to say that abuse among other worse things is justified in real life WTF.
I'm sorry but in the era of Krakoa there are many horrible things that are from sects and cults.
[QUOTE=xhx23x;5660483]My interpretation as to why most have gone along with is that they wanted to have set of traditions and culture that could unite them as people, in a way, taking something that has always been a cause of fear, being killed for what they are, and turning it to something they could take agency of.
Sadly I do think titles like Way of X or even X-Factor were needed earlier in the era to have these areas explored better, but then we lost one and the other is focused on other things for now. I think the crucible will not be a lasting tradition, and something more humane will take its place.
It would be interesting to know if Moira had a hand on setting that up for some reason as well.[/QUOTE]
So you don’t think the Crucible is very humane.
Cool.
[QUOTE=Bunch of Coconuts;5660492]So you don’t think the Crucible is very humane.
Cool.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we were ever suppose to think that, but I'm also not a mutant in the MU now living in a paradise island where I'm told I'm basically inmortal now.
I think they're trying to create their own myths and history here or something larger is at play. I mean A has been gone a while now and they haven't stopped using it. It has to be more than just a way for Poccy to get off. I think like with most things set up in this new era that make us pause there's a story reason behind it. I mean even getting an idea of how mutants feel about it has been pretty slim beyond Kurt and, as you mentioned, Storm.