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[QUOTE=Rac7d*;4583486]I belive in December by solicits
Know the pacing has been awful 10 pages to get across town
I miss his double Shipping[/QUOTE]
Hmm… six issues later then. May? So June?
How many issues are the collective Talon story? Starting from when Cobb started appearing?
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From King's Twitter
@A_Flying_Wonder: Is Dick getting his memories back something that has to happen in your run as part of the ongoing Batman vs Bane conclusion, or is that solely in the hands of the Nightwing team?
Tom King: All that is out of my hands. Wish I could’ve done more Dick work here at the end.
*Deep breath*
Tracking down who's responsible for what in the great Ric Grayson saga is like detective work in itself. Has there ever been a character that change hands more often in one year than him?
King shot him
Percy created Ric
Lobdell insisted Ric continues
Editorial allowed it
Jurgens biding time
Someone wanted him to be Talon
Someone wanted him to only be back next year
Tynion or maybe whoever's bringing him back
I have to divide my annoyance to at least five people!
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4583671]From King's Twitter
@A_Flying_Wonder: Is Dick getting his memories back something that has to happen in your run as part of the ongoing Batman vs Bane conclusion, or is that solely in the hands of the Nightwing team?
Tom King: All that is out of my hands. Wish I could’ve done more Dick work here at the end.
*Deep breath*
Tracking down who's responsible for what in the great Ric Grayson saga is like detective work in itself. Has there ever been a character that change hands more often in one year than him?
King shot him
Percy created Ric
Lobdell insisted Ric continues
Editorial allowed it
Jurgens biding time
Someone wanted him to be Talon
Someone wanted him to only be back next year
Tynion or maybe whoever's bringing him back
I have to divide my annoyance to at least five people![/QUOTE]
Seems to me the ones culpable are:
King who shot him and whose story needed Dick to be benched until at least BatCat were ready to take back the city. Lobdell might have campaigned but Dick would have still been benched right now even if he hadn't because King's story needs him to be.
Editorial for letting this go on knowing fans were unhappy. Knowing that Ric wasn't the only way to keep him unavailable. Get creative. No respecting the character enough to demand this development be used to explore the character deeper. Really get to the heart of the character. Allowing storylines that basically mock the character like Ric becoming a side kick to a bunch of randos after saying he didn't want to be a hero.
It could have been handled better.
Whoever introduced Ric working for the nightwings
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[QUOTE=dietrich;4583746]Seems to me the ones culpable are:
King who shot him and whose story needed Dick to be benched until at least BatCat were ready to take back the city. Lobdell might have campaigned but Dick would have still been benched right now even if he hadn't because King's story needs him to be.
Editorial for letting this go on knowing fans were unhappy. Knowing that Ric wasn't the only way to keep him unavailable. Get creative. No respecting the character enough to demand this development be used to explore the character deeper. Really get to the heart of the character. Allowing storylines that basically mock the character like Ric becoming a side kick to a bunch of randos after saying he didn't want to be a hero.
It could have been handled better.
Whoever introduced Ric working for the nightwings[/QUOTE]
Oh right I didn't mention it in the list. Editorial at first wasn't convinced that Ric will last long. They thought it'll be three issues top, but then Lobdell want to explore it, so they allow it.
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[QUOTE=nightbird;4582732][video=youtube_share;VbpOHj97MM4]https://youtu.be/VbpOHj97MM4[/video]
One spoiler clip from new episode of Titans show, but I really liked how they showcased a bit of Dick’s fighting style here.
He also made Jason kiss the floor in just two seconds, when he tried to attack him by using some defensive fighting techniques.
So in some ways they actually getting his fighting style better this season. It’s good too see that Titans in both seasons established that Dick is a powerhouse when it comes to martial arts.[/QUOTE]
I noticed this about the show, it's one of the few places we actually get to see Dick respected as a fighter (since we rarely see Dick do much fighting on screen in YJO). Last time I felt that was Nightwing #24 of Seeley's run.
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4583786]Oh right I didn't mention it in the list. Editorial at first wasn't convinced that Ric will last long. They thought it'll be three issues top, but then Lobdell want to explore it, so they allow it.[/QUOTE]
I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example
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[QUOTE=dietrich;4583868]I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example[/QUOTE]
Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)
If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4583892]Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)
If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.[/QUOTE]
You make a very good point.
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[QUOTE=dietrich;4583868]I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example[/QUOTE]
Tim Nightwing was never the plan. That was King talking about how he would have handled it if it was his responsibility. But it was always out of his hands.
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[QUOTE=dietrich;4583868]I find that hard to believe since it contradicts King's whole Tim becoming Nightwing and helping Dick. Surely that needs more than 3 issues not to mention that King's story would be slightly different if Dick was a factor. For a start it's much more difficult to justify the beach issues had Batman had an ally of Dick's level and expertise around to intercept the venom for him for example[/QUOTE]
The one who said DC editorial didn't believe in Ric was Lobdell himself who in the same interview said it was him who want to explore Ric.
So first King prepared two options. Cure his wound with Zatanna if DC allow the story to be short or make Tim Nightwing if DC want Dick incapacitated longer, but then of course later Bendis is using Tim so he can't use that one anyway.
At this point King didn't know what DC will allow, and I don't think he even came up with the amnesia idea either because Ben Percy was preparing the vertigo story.
At this point they're just thinking Dick will be incapacitated but there's no Ric yet, and they didn't know how long.
Then whoever at DC decided on amnesia, so Percy changed the story and created Ric, and after they saw Ric, Bat editor(s) believed it won't last long, but then Lobdell came, and he convinced them to make it last longer.
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4583892]Nah, the whole “we’re the message” thing doesn’t work if it comes from Dick (or any of the half a dozen people Bruce has on speed dial that are equally as capable as handling the operation)
If anything, Dick’s presence would make it easier to justify them since they could frame it as Dick back in Gotham holding it down and getting everybody prepared while Bruce gets his shit together.[/QUOTE]
I guess if Dick was still in the picture. It could have been justified with Bruce being anxious and not wanting to risk him again especially if he was suffering Vertigo as was the original plan. So stuff probably wouldn't be all that different.
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[QUOTE=Grayson - The Dark Heir;4583867]I noticed this about the show, it's one of the few places we actually get to see Dick respected as a fighter (since we rarely see Dick do much fighting on screen in YJO). Last time I felt that was Nightwing #24 of Seeley's run.[/QUOTE]
Titans as whole in my opinion handled all aspects about Dick’s training good. While comics, games and DCU animation loves to sh*t on him regularly. And God forbid for Dick to win any fight and to be useful and respected in DCU animation.
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In the BleedingCool news about Nightwing's return someone actually posted this comment:
[QUOTE]No No No.
I was there and Dan Didio said they're working on bringing Dick back cause they got big plans for next year and need him for that. They said nothing about him being a part of Tynion's Batman. Tynion only mentioned Lucius Fox specifically as a character he intends to use.[/QUOTE]
Feels almost surreal that Didio would want Dick involved in their big plans. Except maybe the big plans involve killing him off and sending Bruce in a rage, because that is original.Or he and some of the other Titans get captured by the big bad and it is very stressful for the JL big leaguers.... *rolleyes*
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[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4583993]The one who said DC editorial didn't believe in Ric was Lobdell himself who in the same interview said it was him who want to explore Ric.
So first King prepared two options. Cure his wound with Zatanna if DC allow the story to be short or make Tim Nightwing if DC want Dick incapacitated longer, but then of course later Bendis is using Tim so he can't use that one anyway.
At this point King didn't know what DC will allow, and I don't think he even came up with the amnesia idea either because Ben Percy was preparing the vertigo story.
At this point they're just thinking Dick will be incapacitated but there's no Ric yet, and they didn't know how long.
Then whoever at DC decided on amnesia, so Percy changed the story and created Ric, and after they saw Ric, Bat editor(s) believed it won't last long, but then Lobdell came, and he convinced them to make it last longer.[/QUOTE]
King didn't prepare anything for after he shot Dick. He only said that he told editorial that he was going to shoot Dick regardless if they cared or not and what they did afterwards with Dick was up to them. King had no involvement in it. He told them if they didn't want to deal with it then they could just have Zatanna fix Dick in Nightwing with a spell, or they could follow up on it. King didn't care since whatever they did it would have zero effect on King's own plans in Batman.
Also the idea with Tim taking over as Nightwing was never an actual pitch made by King. It was just something he said would be interesting in a podcast, but it was never something he actually planned out or told editorial about. The only thing that we had evidence of was that Percy planned on giving Dick vertigo and was going to continue his Dark Web story before all that got scrapped. My guess is it got scrapped because they needed Dick out of the way for King's Batman story and just giving him vertigo wasn't enough, so they upped it to amnesia as a way to write him out of all the Batman books while King's story was going on.
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[QUOTE=Badou;4584109]King didn't prepare anything for after he shot Dick. He only said that he told editorial that he was going to shoot Dick regardless if they cared or not and what they did afterwards with Dick was up to them. King had no involvement in it. He told them if they didn't want to deal with it then they could just have Zatanna fix Dick in Nightwing with a spell, or they could follow up on it. King didn't care since whatever they did it would have zero effect on King's own plans in Batman.
Also the idea with Tim taking over as Nightwing was never an actual pitch made by King. It was just something he said would be interesting in a podcast, but it was never something he actually planned out or told editorial about. The only thing that we had evidence of was that Percy planned on giving Dick vertigo and was going to continue his Dark Web story before all that got scrapped. My guess is it got scrapped because they needed Dick out of the way for King's Batman story and just giving him vertigo wasn't enough, so they upped it to amnesia as a way to write him out of all the Batman books while King's story was going on.[/QUOTE]
Ah ok
The way King's story's been written, even if Dick is fine after a short story arc and can go back to Gotham, he's not gonna do much and end up staring in disbelief as Batman punched Tim like the others, and then joining Tim and Damian staring helplessly at City of Bane.
Between the shooting and the cavalry call, he only need to drop one panel saying Bruce banned Nightwing from Gotham since he doesn't want him to get shot again. That's about as much effort as everyone that's not a Nightwing book in explaining his absence.
So from where I'm looking, jury's still out on whose idea exactly was the amnesia since by the sound of it, King didn't really care if it's amnesia or vertigo as long as Dick gets shot and Bruce was traumatized. Then the rest continue as I mentioned.