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[QUOTE=Fenris;381476]#1 is far and away the best of those options. Why doesn't Dexter do it? Because he'd have to live without his kill-fix?
Right. The whole point of the first Rambo title, [i]First Blood[/i], was that he [i]didn't[/i] want to kill people, and was absolutely pushed into a corner.
But these are all action heroes, which means that the plot is bound to push them into corners so that we can watch them killing people. Which is itself kind of horrible, when you think about it.
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[i]"I learned it from YOU!" [/i][/QUOTE]
As far as Dexter goes, he was a character that was never going to do that. On one level I don't even think he should be mentioned here because he's not a hero. His only redeeming quality is that he decided to focus his killing towards bad guys, which sometimes creates a situation where the audience wants to root for him. But he's doing it for a fix, like you said. If not for that need, he wouldn't kill anyways. With Punisher it is a choice, with Dexter's it's a compulsion.
As far as Rambo, Bond, Bauer, and that ilk, I'd more consider them like soldiers or police officers, they have a job and the job supersedes everything lse even if it means killing.
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[QUOTE=lancerman;380976]I missed this episode.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.covernk.com/Covers/L/P/Punisher%202011%20series/punisher2011series1.jpg[/img]
Everyone on the highway is guilty. EVERYONE.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Cover_of_Punisher_1987_number_1.JPG[/img]
What neighbors? Everyone in this apartment building is a violent criminal. No parents, no kids, just scum.
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[QUOTE=Michael P;380872]Dexter doesn't really do that, dupont.
[/QUOTE]
I was talking about The Punisher.
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In the Garth Ennis series the Punisher used a nuclear weapon to blow up an entire island. The point of the story was that the island was a base for hardened criminals, but, c'mon. They make a point of saying the obvious thing and coming up with an explanation why there aren't any prostitutes there, but to support the 2,000 people living on the island there would have to be some laborers and merchants, and they can't all be deserving of the death penalty. And the prostitute explanation doesn't make any sense, they just say that no hookers would go there because the men are too brutal. A lot of women in sexual slavery don't have that kind of choice, there would certainly be some there.
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Sounds like that conversation from Clerks about the Death Star.
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[QUOTE=dupont2005;381649]I was talking about The Punisher.[/QUOTE]
And the person you were talking to was talking about Dexter.
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[QUOTE=CSTowle;383052]Sounds like that conversation from Clerks about the Death Star.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, the contractors on the Death Star thing. Contractors are skilled professionals who have a choice in what jobs they take, though. Unskilled laborers just gotta eat, and sex slaves obviously have no choice at all.
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[QUOTE=Shawn Hopkins;381669]In the Garth Ennis series the Punisher used a nuclear weapon to blow up an entire island. The point of the story was that the island was a base for hardened criminals, but, c'mon. They make a point of saying the obvious thing and coming up with an explanation why there aren't any prostitutes there, but to support the 2,000 people living on the island there would have to be some laborers and merchants, and they can't all be deserving of the death penalty. And the prostitute explanation doesn't make any sense, they just say that no hookers would go there because the men are too brutal. A lot of women in sexual slavery don't have that kind of choice, there would certainly be some there.[/QUOTE]
That's called bad writing. He could have had the Punisher rescuing the sex slaves and then blowing up the island. But that wouldn't fit the narrative Garth was aiming for. Dolph Lundgreen's Punisher was a killing machine but the movie had him rescuing the children of the american mobsters from the Yakuza.
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I find the Punisher's actions a bit too extreme. Killing is required in some instances (the Joker, Carnage, Massacre) but not always and over petty crimes. By Frank's standards Boomerang and co should be dead already, but when you get to know them you can see that they aren't really bad people. I prefer Moon Knight's approach. Scare them shitless, break a few bones, but don't go in all guns blazing and start murdering people.
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[QUOTE=Darthkostis;404855]I find the Punisher's actions a bit too extreme. Killing is required in some instances (the Joker, Carnage, Massacre) but not always and over petty crimes. By Frank's standards Boomerang and co should be dead already, but when you get to know them you can see that they aren't really bad people. I prefer Moon Knight's approach. Scare them shitless, break a few bones, but don't go in all guns blazing and start murdering people.[/QUOTE]
Don't be fooled by his recent appearances. Boomerang is, canonically, an evil person, former assassin for hire, and a brutal murderer who once killed a guy while his young daughter watched. If Frank is justified in killing mobsters, he's justified in killing Boomerang.
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[QUOTE=Shawn Hopkins;404876]Don't be fooled by his recent appearances. Boomerang is, canonically, an evil person, former assassin for hire, and a brutal murderer who once killed a guy while his young daughter watched. If Frank is justified in killing mobsters, he's justified in killing Boomerang.[/QUOTE]
I was actually thinking of Overdrive and messed up the names. Boomerang is an asshole, though I had never heard that one before. What was it from? The rest of the team though aren't so bad (from what I remember).
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[QUOTE=DS1;371014]That's another thing that's often brought up, how the likes of the Punisher don't care about making the world a better place, that they kill scum purely for selfish reasons. Quite frankly, I don't see why it matters, when in the end, it's still scum he primarily goes after.[/QUOTE]
Castle kills criminals basically because he loves killing. He uses his family's deaths as a justification for this. The character is a mass murderer that kills 'bad' guys, because the war he was in ended (Vietnam). The stories about him (mainly Ennis' stories) can be very gripping. But the character is really nothing more than a murderer.
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I believe in escalation like Batman and that more violent retribution can bring more violent crime (like happened with Todd in Batman Reborn), and that heroes should be like the no-kill rule ones, but I don't believe it makes the killer heroes as bad as the villains. More just irressponsible and "gone too far".
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That to me is why the Punisher never works when they are not treating him as just stone cold serial killer. Back in the old days guys like Spider Man and Captain America would try to stop the guy, but now they just look the other way which just makes everyone seem like bastards. There is no logic to it that they just let the guy always walk away knowing that by the next time they see him he will probably have another 100 dead bodies left in his wake, and yet they will still beat the hell out of some other guy for trying to rob a bank.
There is no reason outside of plot induced stupidity that should ever have the Punisher in a group of "heroes" an not have them without a second thought taking him down and turning him in to either the FBI or local police. That is why I really don't like the Punisher anymore.
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[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;407255]That to me is why the Punisher never works when they are not treating him as just stone cold serial killer. Back in the old days guys like Spider Man and Captain America would try to stop the guy, but now they just look the other way which just makes everyone seem like bastards. There is no logic to it that they just let the guy always walk away knowing that by the next time they see him he will probably have another 100 dead bodies left in his wake, and yet they will still beat the hell out of some other guy for trying to rob a bank.
There is no reason outside of plot induced stupidity that should ever have the Punisher in a group of "heroes" an not have them without a second thought taking him down and turning him in to either the FBI or local police. That is why I really don't like the Punisher anymore.[/QUOTE]
He really doesn't work in stories with super-heroes, which is why Ennis' Punisher MAX is the best iteration of the character.
