Battle of some big buff boys.
Fight takes place in a small abandoned village from England in 1014 AD.
Thorkell has two axes, Cap has his shield.
Fight to the death, obviously because Thorkell won't let it end any other way.
Who takes it?
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Battle of some big buff boys.
Fight takes place in a small abandoned village from England in 1014 AD.
Thorkell has two axes, Cap has his shield.
Fight to the death, obviously because Thorkell won't let it end any other way.
Who takes it?
Okay, so this got no traction but since I finished rereading all of Vinland Saga over the last few weeks, I thought I'd throw my two cents in.
Cap is... likely a little stronger than Thorkell. The latter hefts boulders the size of the small car over his head and throws them at ships, one punches bears, uses a tree as melee/projectile weapon, the force of him kicking Thorfinn (a seventeen year old kid) flying into the air above the height of nearby trees and one time he caught like... ten tree trunks being rolled down a hill at him. Thinking of their feats... I'm not sure who is stronger. My gut says Cap but Thorkell seems more empathically superhuman.
Thorkell is, however, a bit quicker. He's constantly being depicted as effectively a blur of axes and death, capable of carving up multiple enemies faster than they can react. He also duelled evenly with both Garm and Thorfinn, both of whom are on the level of treating normal fighters like they are nothing in terms of speed.
He does, apparently, have a glass jaw but this was kind of swiftly forgotten after it was employed one time as we've seen him get clocked in the face and through the wall of a wooden house and he was amused by it more than anything.
My take on who wins...
Hmm... at fight start, Thorkell breaks at least one of his axes on Cap's shield. That is pretty much going to happen without fail. That will change how he fights a bit. I could easily see him just going in for grappling because we've seen him do that, rather than try and breach Cap's defenses with a weapon. Cap is more skillful in terms of hand to hand so I think that would go his way.
Weirdly, if Cap didn't have the shield and just a sword or axe or something, I think that would be harder for him to win because Thorkell's skill with hth weaponry (not counting the shield) far outstrips Steve's and he's got that slight speed edge.
In this rumble though... Advantage Cap I think but it's a damn good fight.
That boulder feat makes me think Thorkell is much stronger, and with a speed edge.
I'd guess that boulder is like 5 tons.
He makes mincemeat out of Cap imo.
edit: i havent read vinland saga in a few months, waiting for chapters to build up that i can binge (that page where one of the berserker soldiers dies and we get to see his viewpoint as it happens shook me). i liked how toned it was relatively compared to a lot of manga, but its characters are really ridiculous when you think about it.
The boulders he was tossing... were they as heavy as a car? Or the /size/ of a car? How far did he throw them?
[QUOTE=The Arbiter;4420165]The boulders he was tossing... were they as heavy as a car? Or the /size/ of a car? How far did he throw them?[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://i.imgur.com/h97ZDya.jpg"]It's pretty big[/URL]
Assuming the rock is limestone, which is most likely given that Thorkell is lifting the rock in London and that's the best kind of stone for big rocks in the area, I would pitch that rock at about 3.5 tons. (This v rough calc: Density of limestone * Rough size of rock which I pitch at 1.5 cubic metres)
Given that he doesn't throw it far, more in a downward, slightly forward motion, I could honestly buy Cap replicating that feat.
Looking at the scene, Cap lifting the support beam off Bucky at the end of The Winter Soldier is a better feat.
Common structural steel is much heavier, pound for pound, than most forms of rock and he's lifting way more mass than Thorkell is, albeit with a lot more effort.
I don't think the strength difference is really significant to be honest.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4421033]Looking at the scene, Cap lifting the support beam off Bucky at the end of The Winter Soldier is a better feat.
Common structural steel is much heavier, pound for pound, than most forms of rock and he's lifting way more mass than Thorkell is, albeit with a lot more effort.
I don't think the strength difference is really significant to be honest.[/QUOTE]
WS is honestly in my top 3 favorite MCU films, but I never seem to remember the feats from it lol.
From your breakdown, I feel like Cap has a mild advantage here.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;4421033]Looking at the scene, Cap lifting the support beam off Bucky at the end of The Winter Soldier is a better feat.
Common structural steel is much heavier, pound for pound, than most forms of rock and he's lifting way more mass than Thorkell is, albeit with a lot more effort.
I don't think the strength difference is really significant to be honest.[/QUOTE]
He's both putting way more effort, and lifting that beam just enough to let bucky escape. How heavy would that beam be btw?
its tough to calculate the boulder since we see it at angle but it's pretty wide, like it would match thorkell's armspan wide, and thorkell is one very tall guy (ive seen him placed as more than 2 meters tall). u sure its just 3.5 tons?
He also has feats like punching a horse (and rider) into the air, throwing a spear a kilometer and killing several vikings with it (eat your heart out achilles), and kicking a person above the tree line (much better than Cap and Bucky's people ragdolling feats).
I can't see Cap replicating the spear throw, or lifting the boulder as casually as Thorkell.
Hold on, ive been looking up calcs for these feats, and while some put the spear throw at 50 tons of force, we also have calcs of that steel beam lift as a 35 -55 ton feat. these feats seem pretty insane, and they may be close in strength (though lifting and striking strength are different). However, the spear feat seems more casual than the extreme exertion of cap, so comparing their best feats Thorkell is a cut above.
Knowing nothing about Thorkell, I dunno if I'd expect him to break an axe on the shield unless he's kind of dumb. It's clearly SOME kind of metal, and attacking shields isn't generally good practice, so I wouldn't expect him to directly strike it. Assuming that he is in any way skilled and that he's a viking or somesuch, he should be pretty familiar with how to fight a shield. Granted, an unbreakable metal shield is abnormal, but I still wouldn't expect him to just swing straight at it. He should have a healthy respect for it.
Unless he's dumb or just so strong that he frequently smashes shields and doesn't care in the comic I guess.
[QUOTE=moonknight11;4426844]He's both putting way more effort, and lifting that beam just enough to let bucky escape. How heavy would that beam be btw?
its tough to calculate the boulder since we see it at angle but it's pretty wide, like it would match thorkell's armspan wide, and thorkell is one very tall guy (ive seen him placed as more than 2 meters tall). u sure its just 3.5 tons? [/quote]
Mid density limestone is 2560 kg/cubic metre, that boulder looks to be somewhere between 1 and 2 cubic metres based on Thorkell's size. I split the difference and pitched it at 1.5 cubic metres which is 3840 kg or, roughly 3.5 US tons.
[quote]He also has feats like punching a horse (and rider) into the air, throwing a spear a kilometer and killing several vikings with it (eat your heart out achilles), and kicking a person above the tree line (much better than Cap and Bucky's people ragdolling feats).
I can't see Cap replicating the spear throw, or lifting the boulder as casually as Thorkell.[/quote]
The spear throw wasn't a kilometre for my money. It's like... half that by my estimate.
The Thorfinn fling above the tree line is good but it's also exacerbated by Thorfinn being a small skinny teenager and he also jumped off Thorkell's foot to avoid the damage.
[quote]Hold on, ive been looking up calcs for these feats, and while some put the spear throw at 50 tons of force, we also have calcs of that steel beam lift as a 35 -55 ton feat. these feats seem pretty insane, and they may be close in strength (though lifting and striking strength are different). However, the spear feat seems more casual than the extreme exertion of cap, so comparing their best feats Thorkell is a cut above.[/QUOTE]
Thorkell certainly tries less hard more often but I'd still give Cap the edge personally. But it's marginal either way for me.
[QUOTE=BitVyper;4426858]Knowing nothing about Thorkell, I dunno if I'd expect him to break an axe on the shield unless he's kind of dumb. It's clearly SOME kind of metal, and attacking shields isn't generally good practice, so I wouldn't expect him to directly strike it. Assuming that he is in any way skilled and that he's a viking or somesuch, he should be pretty familiar with how to fight a shield. Granted, an unbreakable metal shield is abnormal, but I still wouldn't expect him to just swing straight at it. He should have a healthy respect for it.
Unless he's dumb or just [b]so strong that he frequently smashes shields and doesn't care in the comic I guess.[/B][/QUOTE]
Basically the latter part of it of your final point. Thorkell is much stronger than anyone else in the series and is regarded as arguably the greatest living warrior of his time. He routine cleaves through armour and shields without issue or at least sends the people behind the shield flying with the force of his hits.
Cap is not only as strong as him, arguably a touch stronger, but also his shield is unbreakable and absorbs impact. Thorkell isn't likely to suspect either of the latter two things unless they are covered by standard knowledge, which I don't believe they are.
Gotcher. Yeah, I considered that after I'd finished making the rest of the post, it just felt weird to have a viking character NOT expect a shield to by a dynamic and dangerous thing.
To be fair, wouldn't Cap's shield being unbreakable be basic knowledge? Or is the scenario precluding that?