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[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2419028]If universal healthcare were to take over the private health care cost would not go away but then need to be paid by the government, so who pays it doesn't matter that is the cost.[/QUOTE]
I'm not convinced that's true. We still have private healthcare in the UK; even though our health care is [U]also free[/U] to everyone. People like to immediacy and convenience of private, and choose to pay for it, even when there is a free option. Private doesn't go away.
[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2419028]b)Technology spending is a vital part of health care and under universal health care many argument say that medical investments by the private sector will decrees slowing the pace on medical advancement. Money spent on technology and research are just as important as money spent on care giving.[/QUOTE]
While technology is important, don't you think the US spends (compared to everyone else) too much on technology? Most of the illnesses don't need the newest or 'state of the art' devices. What they do need is doctors, accessible and FREE to people. Technology doesn't trump that (lol).
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Before you can even think of lowering the cost of Health Care in the US you'd have to do something about the cost of
Med School and Medical Malpractice Insurance first.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2420168]Before you can even think of lowering the cost of Health Care in the US you'd have to do something about the cost of
Med School and Medical Malpractice Insurance first.[/QUOTE]
Yeah this healthcare stuff is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more complicated than people think
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2420168]Before you can even think of lowering the cost of Health Care in the US you'd have to do something about the cost of
Med School and Medical Malpractice Insurance first.[/QUOTE]
Limit people's right to sue for useless bullshit? That's downright un-American!
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[QUOTE=MindofShadow;2420177]Yeah this healthcare stuff is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more complicated than people think[/QUOTE]
The unspoken deal is Med school takes the kids and their families to the cleaners for 4+ years and on completing everything they get to charge
whatever the market can bear.
And even when they get done with paying off their med school bills, they will always be paying Medical Malpractice Insurance.
Those charges get passed on directly to the customer.
It's either limit the Doctor's costs or limit Patients access to Doctors (which people will hate bitterly).
One or the other.
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[QUOTE=Vic Vega;2420286]The unspoken deal is Med school takes the kids and their families to the cleaners for 4+ years and on completing everything they get to charge
whatever the market can bear.
And even when they get done with paying off their med school bills, they will always be paying Medical Malpractice Insurance.
Those charges get passed on directly to the customer.
It's either limit the Doctor's costs or limit Patients access to Doctors (which people will hate bitterly).
One or the other.[/QUOTE]
lets not forget hospital and medical supply companies, they charge hospitals and drs offices OUT THE A$$ and aren't all that regulated
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;2420111]I'm not convinced that's true. We still have private healthcare in the UK; even though our health care is [U]also free[/U] to everyone. People like to immediacy and convenience of private, and choose to pay for it, even when there is a free option. Private doesn't go away.
While technology is important, don't you think the US spends (compared to everyone else) too much on technology? Most of the illnesses don't need the newest or 'state of the art' devices. What they do need is doctors, accessible and FREE to people. Technology doesn't trump that (lol).[/QUOTE]
Nothing is free, all programs have to be paid for, free is not a true description. Again over 17% of the US GDP is spent on health care , it makes up one sixth of the largest economy in the world. One does not simply stop that juggernaut re-structure and redirect it over night, trying would crash the world economy and the places that have "free" health care would ironically not have the money to pay for it. The ACA (also know as "Obama Care") is a step in the right direction. and it will take steps not leaps to get to a working system that benefits all (but not single payer) with out destroying the economy of the entire world. The Dems will need to agree that interstate insurance needs to happen, and the Rep Governors need to get the stick out there ass and agree to expand medicaid. And both need to look at cost restructuring.
[QUOTE=edhopper;2419079]So every other industrial country on Earth can implement and afford universal healthcare, but we can't?
I find that difficult to accept.[/QUOTE]
Also to point out that it's being done it other counties and the US should do like them, is like saying that the economic policy of small town middle America should be used in New York City. The US is not Canada, France, Germany, or the UK who combined can only make up a little over half of what the US economy is. The US health care system, connecting industries and services is far more complicated than throwing single payer at it and then be done with it. Doing so will not only be damaging for the US but the world as a whole.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;2412216]These two things contradict one another. Your taxes pay for roads, for police, for government, for hospitals, for sanitary clean-up, for traffic lights, for street lamps, for everything public and "free" to you. You can't label using taxes to pay for medical bills as "selfish" yet demand to pay less tax, and still have working roads, clean streets, safe neighbourhoods, etc.[/QUOTE]
I am not on medicare or medicaid...I use natural food as my medicine which is expensive enough for me. But my family members I'm now trying to help for decades ate junk food and meat. They are on Medicare. Medicare allows for drugs, but not herbs and organics. I'm trying to pay for the good stuff while also paying for insurance that I don't need--because Obamacare mandates say so.
Roads can and are built and maintained through local bonds. I usually vote for those and ones on emergency services. State taxes can repair statewide roads and Federal funds for interstate.
The larger and more central the system the larger and more far reaching the potential for corruption. Save those for needs be things such as international defense.
IMHO.
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[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2420582]Nothing is free, all programs have to be paid for, free is not a true description. Again over 17% of the US GDP is spent on health care , it makes up one sixth of the largest economy in the world. One does not simply stop that juggernaut re-structure and redirect it over night, trying would crash the world economy and the places that have "free" health care would ironically not have the money to pay for it. The ACA (also know as "Obama Care") is a step in the right direction. and it will take steps not leaps to get to a working system that benefits all (but not single payer) with out destroying the economy of the entire world. The Dems will need to agree that interstate insurance needs to happen, and the Rep Governors need to get the stick out there ass and agree to expand medicaid. And both need to look at cost restructuring.
Also to point out that it's being done it other counties and the US should do like them, is like saying that the economic policy of small town middle America should be used in New York City. The US is not Canada, France, Germany, or the UK who combined can only make up a little over half of what the US economy is. The US health care system, connecting industries and services is far more complicated than throwing single payer at it and then be done with it. Doing so will not only be damaging for the US but the world as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Europe's population is over 400 million, more than the US. And combine it with places like Japan shows. large populations can be insured. And no one is saying to make it "free" that is a red herring. Medicare is not free, we pay for it in taxes and premiums, it is just the most efficient and lowest cost program we have. (and simply raising the cap on taxes, that have remained the same since the reagan admin, would solve most of it's financial problem. Also letting tham negotiate drug cost would be big)
As for Malpractice being an issue. Total cost of malpractice is less than 2 percent of the $ spent on healthcare. Tort reform is not something that will help in a meaningful way.
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This thread is amazing because it shows why America has never had universal healthcare. It's a country that overthrows democracies for electing people they don't like and is currently bombing 7 different nations, yet as soon as the government tries to make sure the basic needs of everyone are met, suddenly oh **** we're heading for 1984! What about the freedom are (slave owning) Founding Fathers intended?!?! The state can't go this far!
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Very, VERY happy seeing the poll results from this thread. Kudos, CB posters, you done good, ya'll. :D
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;2448347]Very, VERY happy seeing the poll results from this thread. Kudos, CB posters, you done good, ya'll. :D[/QUOTE]
But if heal care is a "human right" would not also shelter and food also be a "human right"?
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[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2448379]But if heal care is a "human right" would not also shelter and food also be a "human right"?[/QUOTE]
Well, they are... Or should be at least.
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[QUOTE=Mavric1919;2448379]But if heal care is a "human right" would not also shelter and food also be a "human right"?[/QUOTE]
Errrr... yes??? :confused:
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[QUOTE=Carabas;2448382]Well, they are... Or should be at least.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;2448396]Errrr... yes??? :confused:[/QUOTE]
So the government should also provide for all it's citizens these things. What about clothing, electricity/gas (for heating cooking and such) these should be human rights too?