Clark's 8th decade (Spring 2008 - Spring 2018): how was it?

True. But up until that point, I think a lot of people who were skeptical were willing to give New 52 a chance until it became obvious that the old status quo wasn't going to be restored. Then, I think, a lot of people lost interest. Keep in mind, New 52 was a hard sell. I remember all the fan outrage when they did the relationship. I personally don't really care. I'm just saying I think one of the biggest selling points was the idea that the relationship would be restored because when it first came out, people were shocked Lois was dating someone else.

[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;3849303]I think that's putting much too big an emphasis on romantic relationships in Superman comics than is due. They do not make or break whole eras, regardless whom it is in a romantic relationship with whom, whether its dated, whether its marriage, whether its whatever. General relationships have to be developed of course, but the actuality is very few people aren't picking up a Superman comic because Superman is/isn't married to Lois, is/isn't dating her, is/isn't dating Wonder Woman, is/isn't dating Lana, or whomever. Its obviously an aspect of stories that a lot of people have their opinions on, but at the end of the day its never affected sales one way or the other that much. That's not the reason his books sink or swim.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to agree. Sales for Pre-Flashpoint Supes dropped had towards the end. New 52 sales dropped because the [I]stories sucked[/I], not because he was dating someone else.

[QUOTE=superduperman;3849373]True. But up until that point, I think a lot of people who were skeptical were willing to give New 52 a chance until it became obvious that the old status quo wasn't going to be restored. Then, I think, a lot of people lost interest. Keep in mind, [B]New 52 was a hard sell[/B]. I remember all the fan outrage when they did the relationship. I personally don't really care. I'm just saying I think one of the biggest selling points was the idea that the relationship would be restored because when it first came out, people were shocked Lois was dating someone else.[/QUOTE]
Sales were great when Morrison was writing iirc. They were [I]awful[/I] before the reboot, so it's not like the marriage was a huge selling point to readers then. Also plenty of people whine about King or Snyder but both of them have had excellent sales so far from what I understand, gotta separate the Internet fanbase from the actual people who buy comics. Sales dropped in part because sales ALWAYS drop, and in part because the writing for Superman was terrible.

[QUOTE=superduperman;3849373]True. But up until that point, I think a lot of people who were skeptical were willing to give New 52 a chance until it became obvious that the old status quo wasn't going to be restored. Then, I think, a lot of people lost interest. Keep in mind, New 52 was a hard sell. I remember all the fan outrage when they did the relationship. I personally don't really care. I'm just saying I think one of the biggest selling points was the idea that the relationship would be restored because when it first came out, people were shocked Lois was dating someone else.[/QUOTE]


That might have been the catalyst that made some people realize things weren't quickly going to be restored back (even if, unbeknownst to us at the time, it would be far quicker than it took for pre-Crisis elements to return way back when). But even if Clark hadn't started dating Diana, had he started to casually date Metropolis natives, or just stayed single the whole time which would have left that Lois option more readily open, all other things being equal I they would have found themselves in the same spot. It wouldn't have improved anything from a sales POV. Because the problems of too many crossovers, too many gimmicks, and a roller coaster of creative teams on one of the titles would have still existed. And that's what ultimately messed up the line. Again all else being equal, and its hard to imagine it wouldn't have been, as his relationship with Diana hardly forced any of those other things to happen.

Comics: The New Krypton era was enjoyable, albeit a bit confusing. During that time, I mostly kept to the World of New Krypton book, because it was the one that featured Superman as the starring character. I was disappointed that the War of the Supermen ended with once again Kryptonians getting wiped out, violently returning to the status quo. The Grounded and Doomsday stories were good, and the writers were allowed to have fun with Superman and his supporting cast before the New 52. As for the New 52, in my opinion, it definitely wasn't a good time for Superman, because of the lack of consistency in his stories. The Rebirth ere was definitely a step in the right direction, because DC was adamant in celebrating what makes Superman a good character and giving him and Lois a son, a major change in the status quo and a clear statement that things were gonna be different from now on, in a good way. Readers like familiarity, but they also like originality, and Rebirth struck a good balance between the two.

Movies: I genuinely enjoyed the Zack Snyder movies: [I]Man of Steel[/I], [I]Justice League[/I] and [I]Batman v Superman[/I] in that order. Henry Cavill is a magnificent Superman I hope he gets another chance to be in the big screen, sooner rather than later. The only complaint I have is that Batman v Superman made Superman into too much of a passive observant, just to give Batman, Lex Luthor and Wonder Woman more screentime and dialogue. This movies also did Superman justice as an action hero, properly displaying his powers in an actual battle.

TV: I admit I don't watch [I]Supergirl[/I] that much. Tyler Hoechlin was fine, I guess, but his portrayal reminds me too much of Christopher Reeve and the DCAU, and he doesn't really bring anything new to the character. I guess this is what happens when you try to avoid getting Superman to overshadow his cousin.

Video Games: A common criticism against the [I]Injustice[/I] video games is that they seem a bit ashamed of Superman and give Batman too much credit. My favorite Superman in this series was definitely the noble and heroic Superman from the first game. If [I]Injustice 3[/I] ever gets made, I hope this Superman becomes playable again.

[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;3849435]That might have been the catalyst that made some people realize things weren't quickly going to be restored back (even if, unbeknownst to us at the time, it would be far quicker than it took for pre-Crisis elements to return way back when). But even if Clark hadn't started dating Diana, had he started to casually date Metropolis natives, or just stayed single the whole time which would have left that Lois option more readily open, all other things being equal I they would have found themselves in the same spot. It wouldn't have improved anything from a sales POV. Because the problems of too many crossovers, too many gimmicks, and a roller coaster of creative teams on one of the titles would have still existed. And that's what ultimately messed up the line. Again all else being equal, and its hard to imagine it wouldn't have been, as his relationship with Diana hardly forced any of those other things to happen.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I don't think the relationship was the sole reason people tuned out, but I think it was the beginning of the end, so to speak. Yeah, the crossovers were definitely one of the biggest factors alongside the fact that many characters, like Superboy and and Supergirl, had completely different and unlikable personalities in comparison to their previous versions.

Just out of curiosity, what was the official or unofficial 70th anniversary issue in 2008?

In 1988, the 50th anniversary was ACTION COMICS #600, as the conclusion of Super Decade 5.

In 1998, the 60th anniversary issue was SUPERMAN FOREVER #1, as the conclusion to Super Decade 6.

In 2013, the 75th anniversary issue was SUPERMAN UNCHAINED #1.

In 2018, the 80th anniversary issue was ACTION COMICS #1000 as the conclusion to Super Decade 8.

If there was no official 70th anniversary issue, what issue in 2008 would be your vote for the conclusion of Super Decade 7?

[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;3852029]If there was no official 70th anniversary issue, what issue in 2008 would be your vote for the conclusion of Super Decade 7?[/QUOTE]

The one with Pa Kent's funeral.

I'd say Action #863 and Superman #675. The end of the Legion story and the last Busiek story that April.

[QUOTE=Last Son of Krypton;3852070]The one with Pa Kent's funeral.[/QUOTE]

[I]"It's like you're always stuck in second gear..."[/I];)

Wow, [URL="https://io9.gizmodo.com/5020611/unhappy-70th-birthday-superman"]DC really didn't celebrate Superman's 70th anniversary in 2008 AT ALL.[/URL]

2 culprits spring to mind for this neglect:

1. The 70th anniversary is always kinda overshadowed: like the 20th anniversary, it gets a bit ignored in favor of the much bigger anniversary 5 years later. And Supes' 75th birthday WAS a big deal in 2013.

2. The Lawsuit. The fight with Siegel & Shuster's Estate was heating up, and maybe DC wasn't as confident that it would win decisively, so maybe they deliberately low-keyed it for the 70th.

Of course, Batman got the debut of Rocksteady ARKHAM ASYLUM video game series for HIS 70th anniversary in 2009, but I don't recall the 70th anniversary being explicitly mentioned back then either.

I think we can safely say that DC won't let another milestone anniversary of Clark's go by without proper fanfare on their part.

[QUOTE=daBronzeBomma;3852716]Wow, [URL="https://io9.gizmodo.com/5020611/unhappy-70th-birthday-superman"]DC really didn't celebrate Superman's 70th anniversary in 2008 AT ALL.[/URL]

2 culprits spring to mind for this neglect:

1. The 70th anniversary is always kinda overshadowed: like the 20th anniversary, it gets a bit ignored in favor of the much bigger anniversary 5 years later. And Supes' 75th birthday WAS a big deal in 2013.

2. The Lawsuit. The fight with Siegel & Shuster's Estate was heating up, and maybe DC wasn't as confident that it would win decisively, so maybe they deliberately low-keyed it for the 70th.

Of course, Batman got the debut of Rocksteady ARKHAM ASYLUM video game series for HIS 70th anniversary in 2009, but I don't recall the 70th anniversary being explicitly mentioned back then either.

I think we can safely say that DC won't let another milestone anniversary of Clark's go by without proper fanfare on their part.[/QUOTE]

Nonsense! He got a new Batman movie for his 70th birthday! And they killed off his dad! What more could he want?

[QUOTE=superduperman;3852868]Nonsense! He got a new Batman movie for his 70th birthday! And they killed off his dad! What more could he want?[/QUOTE]

The flipside, which in that story was a million other Kryptonians. What else could you get the man who has everything?

The comparisons to other years and products have to figure a few things in. Arkham Asylum being in 2009 wasn't deliberate so it wasn't really a 70th anniversary, for example. Maybe there was other stuff going on, but those awkward numbers aren't too celebrated. Like (Adventures of) Superman #500 was a really big deal, but did anyone really care about year 55? Versus what we saw in years 50 and 60. 70 is similar in a way, but they don't have a much nicer number like 75 nearby.

Keeping in mind, I've only been reading / following Superman off-and-on since 1989, I'd rank my Super Decades as such:

1. Super Decade 6 (Spring 1988 - Spring 1998)
2. Super Decade 8 (Spring 2008 - Spring 2018)
3. Super Decade 7 (Spring 1998 - Spring 2008)

Based on what I know/read/heard of the previous Super Decades, my full list would be:

1. Super Decade 1 ('38-'48)
2. Super Decade 5 ('78-'88)
3. Super Decade 3 ('58-'68)
4. Super Decade 6 ('88-'98)
5. Super Decade 2 ('48-'58)
6. Super Decade 4 ('68-'78)
7. Super Decade 8 ('08-'18)
8. Super Decade 7 ('98-'08)

Yeesh.

Overall, I think the nascent Super Decade 9 (Spring 2018 - Spring 2028) is off to a good start, and that Supes is trending in the right direction, but it's hard to say that the 21st century has so far been kind to Clark Kent.

I'd say that the 8th Decade could best be described as "chaotic." DC couldn't settle on what they wanted Superman to be, basically constantly pursuing major changes to his background and status quo, but slowly losing the master writers needed to make those stories work, let alone the in-between periods where journeyman writers had to try and carry the banner in whatever weird status quo editorial had settled on. Eventually, the franchise in comics became dominated by editorial fiat rather than great writing, which is never a good thing.

There were some interesting highs, but only a small handful of great stories in the decade, and some interesting ironies when viewing the outside media appearances, like how as soon as the comics tried to ditch everything about the Post-Crisis Supes, Man Of Steel came out with a very Post-Crisis take on the character and his world.

[QUOTE=Dispenser Of Truth;3848404][URL="https://davidmann95.tumblr.com/post/173154606341/i-feel-like-public-opinions-on-superman-is-higher?is_related_post=1"]I wrote about it in April.[/URL] In short: so, so bad.[/QUOTE]

Pretty much nailed it. A few bright spots do not change the fact that this was a shitshow decade for him.

[I]Grounded/I], the divisiveness of the New 52 reboot and [I]Man of Steel[/I], the [I]Injustice[/I] canon, BvS and JL, the romance with Wonder Woman, lack of any interest in actually featuring him in tv shows or upcoming films but spin-off characters get them, the godawful means of "restoring" continuity with Rebirth, etc. This has been a rough ass ride. I'd like to say we can only go up from here, but...