Is "mutate" a term actually used in the Marvel Universe?

If you were born with powers via the X-gene, you're a mutant. If you were born a baseline human who got powers via a foreign element, you're a mutate.

Or, for the longest time, that's what I thought. However, I've been wondering if this terminology is actually used in-universe.

All the wiki sites will refer to people like Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, the Wasp, the Hulk, Black Panther and so on as "human mutate", and I never questioned it before. However, I was talking to someone on another site and this subject came up. He said he never heard the term "mutate" in a Marvel comic, and he's been a fan for decades. He's played RPGs where they're referred to as "altered humans".

And the more I think about it, I've never seen the term within a comic I've read either. I am aware of the Savage Land Mutates, but that's something completely different. Mutate here is used as a general term for superpowered beings that aren't mutants, or aliens, inhumans, asgardians, magic or whatever.

The distinction between mutant and mutate is important, given the heavy amounts of discrimination the former receive that the latter are usually spared from. In fact, if I've seen cases where if a mutate is feared and hated, it's assumed they must be a mutant. It doesn't make sense, but then, neither does real world racism. That was the point.

So, is mutate in this context ever used in-universe? Or it is strictly an out-of-universe term meant for convenience? Just curious.

Apart from as you mention the Savage Land Mutates, I don't think I have ever heard the term mutate used to describe anyone

Huh, it seems odd if they've never used mutate in-universe. You would think it'd be useful for a number of reasons. Such as:
[LIST][*]It would make the terminology clear.[*]It could make for good scenes (like a mutant trying to pass off as a mutate to avoid discrimination).[*]It would be useful for establishing how the universe works, because them not saying "mutate" just means having superpowers is without a name unless you're a mutant. And being a mutant is a very different thing.[*]It would help establish the culture of the MU (there are distinct mutant cultures that often exclude mutates, but the line isn't quite clear. You could have a scene where a mutant says "Wait, he's a [I]mutate[/I]. He's a phony, and not one of us").[*]In general, just much more useful. Without them saying "mutate", it feels like calling them that is a fan term. I continue to call them that for lack of a better term, however.[/LIST]

It is dumb if they have no umbrella term. DC uses "metahumans", which applies to anyone with powers (including aliens) - so people like Superman, Wonder Woman, and Flash, but not Batman or Green Arrow, who are what TV Tropes calls Badass Normals. In Marvel, the "mutate" term should relate to anyone who has natural powers (i.e. not granted by a costume) and isn't a mutant, an Inhuman, or a God - Iron Man and Nova don't count as their powers are tech, nor does Thor whose powers are divine, but people like Spider-Man and Hulk do.

Wait, does metahuman really apply to everyone with powers? I thought it was just humans with superpowers, as in Flash is a metahuman but not Superman and Wonder Woman.

To be fair, I'm not as versed with DC as I am with Marvel, but it always seemed that way.

I think they're more apt to jusr call those people "super powered" or something. Sort of makes it annoying when you're trying to compare them to mutants.

I seem to recall Thunderbolt Ross describing the Abomination as a gamma-ray mutate. This would have been in the late seventies. I'm not sure I've seen the term used much since.

That's insane. You would think that with how much importance Marvel places on the difference between mutants and mutates that they would actually make this terminology clear.

I haven't read any official databook, but for anyone who has, did they use the term mutate there?

[QUOTE=leokearon;4571251]Apart from as you mention the Savage Land Mutates, I don't think I have ever heard the term mutate used to describe anyone[/QUOTE]

Almost certain they said Genoshan Mutates.

Afaik DC has a "Metahuman Gene" which gives you superpowers. Jay Garrick for example is a user of the Speedforce, an extradimensionsal energy that lets you run at superhuman speeds, hes also a metahuman though who's ability is superhuman speed.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]87158[/ATTACH]
From Thor #163, and specifically referring to people who had started out as normal humans.

So the term [B][I]has[/I][/B] been used in comic.

As I understood it, back in the day, thanks to Celestial tampering, humanity had the potential for mutation. A small percentage would be born with that potential unlocked, and become mutants around puberty (or sooner, in some cases). Most would remain 'latent' through life, but could get triggered by something, like cosmic rays, gamma rays, a radioactive spider-bite, a super-soldier serum, Terrigenesis, etc.

According to Days of Future Past's future scenario, there was also a percentage of humanity that had *no* potential for mutation, latent or otherwise, and, presumably, if exposed to a massive dose of gamma radiation, etc. would just die horribly crapping out their intestines.

So, based on that, anyone who isn't a straight-up mutant, and isn't getting their powers from tech, or being related to a god, or magic, or some alien or extra-dimensional stuff, people ranging from Spider-Man to the Hulk to the Fantastic Four to Captain America to the entire Inhuman race, are 'mutates' or 'latents.' (With the Inhumans, it was Kree technology that awakened their latent mutation, but the Terrigen didn't give them the ability to mutate, or else it would have worked on the Kree themselves, and they never would have needed to use it on humans.)

Presumably anyone who has internalized the size-changing ability granted by Pym particles (such as Hank, Cassie and Janet, at least), also counts. (And perhaps Scott is *not* a latent, explaining why he has never gotten with the program, and still needs a fresh dose of particles whenever he wants to shrink or grow?)

That all said, I'm fairly certain anyone currently at Marvel has forgotten Days of Future Past, or that the Celestials gave humanity the X-gene, or what the word 'mutate' means. Several stories have had whole towns turned into Hulks or Spider-Peeps, which, according to their own theory, would have flat-out murdered whatever percent of said towns were *not* latents, and would have just suffered the usual effect of massive radiation exposure instead of 'Hulking out.'

Marvel itself likely doesn't remember this stuff, and it's pretty clear that they either don't have, or don't bother to read, any sort of story bible, like the old Marvel Handbook days, when everything was sort of codified in one central place, and, however imperfect they were at it, the editors at least *tried* for some semblance of internal consistency across the titles.

[QUOTE=Sutekh;4571370]As I understood it, back in the day, thanks to Celestial tampering, humanity had the potential for mutation. A small percentage would be born with that potential unlocked, and become mutants around puberty (or sooner, in some cases). Most would remain 'latent' through life, but could get triggered by something, like cosmic rays, gamma rays, a radioactive spider-bite, a super-soldier serum, Terrigenesis, etc.

According to Days of Future Past's future scenario, there was also a percentage of humanity that had *no* potential for mutation, latent or otherwise, and, presumably, if exposed to a massive dose of gamma radiation, etc. would just die horribly crapping out their intestines.

So, based on that, anyone who isn't a straight-up mutant, and isn't getting their powers from tech, or being related to a god, or magic, or some alien or extra-dimensional stuff, people ranging from Spider-Man to the Hulk to the Fantastic Four to Captain America to the entire Inhuman race, are 'mutates' or 'latents.' (With the Inhumans, it was Kree technology that awakened their latent mutation, but the Terrigen didn't give them the ability to mutate, or else it would have worked on the Kree themselves, and they never would have needed to use it on humans.)

Presumably anyone who has internalized the size-changing ability granted by Pym particles (such as Hank, Cassie and Janet, at least), also counts. (And perhaps Scott is *not* a latent, explaining why he has never gotten with the program, and still needs a fresh dose of particles whenever he wants to shrink or grow?)

That all said, I'm fairly certain anyone currently at Marvel has forgotten Days of Future Past, or that the Celestials gave humanity the X-gene, or what the word 'mutate' means. Several stories have had whole towns turned into Hulks or Spider-Peeps, which, according to their own theory, would have flat-out murdered whatever percent of said towns were *not* latents, and would have just suffered the usual effect of massive radiation exposure instead of 'Hulking out.'

Marvel itself likely doesn't remember this stuff, and it's pretty clear that they either don't have, or don't bother to read, any sort of story bible, like the old Marvel Handbook days, when everything was sort of codified in one central place, and, however imperfect they were at it, the editors at least *tried* for some semblance of internal consistency across the titles.[/QUOTE]

Sometimes I wonder how "superpower" can be defined in these settings. I mean, theoretically Tony Stark doesn't have powers. However, Iron Man has a super advanced suit of power armor that allows him to throw-down with gods, and he carries spares that he can summon on command. Could [I]that[/I] be considered a superpower?

Even further, there's Scott Lang as the second Ant-Man. He doesn't have any powers, on paper. His powers come from his suit, helmet and belt carrying Pym Particles, but said powers include shrinking and controlling ants. Those sound like superhuman abilities.

If you [I]really[/I] want to split hairs, consider that Doctor Doom isn't officially superhuman. Everything from his advanced science, gadgets, armor, magitek and even the sorcery itself, are things that he learned. He has no real powers to call his own. That's the core of his appeal to, as he's a guy who went from a peasant to the most dangerous supervillain who ever lived.

Honestly, it's a little difficult to say these people are just "normal", and you could make an argument for them having powers. I do find that appealing, to be honest. They're human, but have extraordinary abilities. In particular, I've always preferred Scott over Hank in part for that reason, because he always came across as an Average Joe who puts on a suit and acts as a superhero when needed. The fact that his powers aren't innate makes him more relatable in a way.

Weren't Cloak and Dagger referred to as Mutates and not Mutants?

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4571277][B]Wait, does metahuman really apply to everyone with powers? [/B]I thought it was just humans with superpowers, as in Flash is a metahuman but not Superman and Wonder Woman.

To be fair, I'm not as versed with DC as I am with Marvel, but it always seemed that way.[/QUOTE]

In Young Justice the term is used to describe a group of super-powered people or they just use "metas". They still call Supes and J'onn aliens.

[QUOTE=Mutant_Lover;4571869]Weren't Cloak and Dagger referred to as Mutates and not Mutants?[/QUOTE]

[center][SIZE=3]Cloak and Dagger are indeed mutates based on how they gained their powers...[/SIZE]

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/K8q3ykWM/Cloak-and-Dagger.jpg[/img][/center]

Wasn’t it ambiguous for a long time? They had a series called The Mutant Misadventures of Cloak and Dagger, and their origin always was sketchy. I remember they had a tenure as members of the X-Men, and wasn’t it there where they were confirmed to be mutates?

[QUOTE=Shreene;4572085][center][SIZE=3]Cloak and Dagger are indeed mutates based on how they gained their powers...[/SIZE]

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/K8q3ykWM/Cloak-and-Dagger.jpg[/img][/center][/QUOTE]

Unless it's been retconned, Cloak & Dagger are mutants.

[img]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/731051.jpg[/img]

It was confirmed by Dr. Nemesis that they don’t have the X-gene. I think it was always kind of ambiguous, them being teenage runaways and all. The title above seems a bit deceptive if they weren’t always committed to them being mutants.

Like Namor I suspect. Just add murant in his name for extra sales !

It’s funny as C/D have many hallmarks of being mutants. They’ve called themselves mutants, that’s been their title, they’ve hung out with mutants, and they’ve been freaking X-Men. Yet they’re not mutants overall.

Heh, some mutates just gotta be appropriating something that isn’t theirs.

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4571386]If you [I]really[/I] want to split hairs, consider that Doctor Doom isn't officially superhuman. Everything from his advanced science, gadgets, armor, magitek and even the sorcery itself, are things that he learned. He has no real powers to call his own. That's the core of his appeal to, as he's a guy who went from a peasant to the most dangerous supervillain who ever lived.[/QUOTE]Except Doom HAS developed the psionic ability to switch minds with another person, and has done so on more than one occasion.

Is the source of it magic?

When Carol Davers was experimented on by the Brood, she became "the cosmic-powered mutate named Binary".

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4572253]Is the source of it magic?[/QUOTE]

He learned it from aliens, so it's not clear.

In the Marvel universe, one can be 'taught' telepathy, and even telekinesis. Moondragon, Mantis, 'Bob' the Uranian of the Agents of Atlas. are all examples of non-mutant humans who were trained by aliens to have powerful psychic abilities. Various magicians, like Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dr. Druid, etc. also use three different sources of power, according to the old Marvel Handbooks, one of which is 'trained' powers like telepathy and telekinesis. SHIELD has, at times, also had dozens of 'sensitives' that are human psychics that don't appear to be mutants.

Presumably Doom's mind-swapping ability is similar, since it's described as something he 'learned' from them, not something he developed after they injected him with some nanobots or gene-triggering serum or hit with some mutagenic ray or whatever.

That'd be good so long as it's learned.

I'm [I]very[/I] much against the idea of Doctor Doom just getting a superpower. One of the reasons he's so appealing, among others, is that he's the epitome of a self-made man. Everything from his vast empire, unlimited wealth, cunning tactics and manipulative power, scientific knowledge of every field, scholarship of the magical arts, and the ability to combine both sides of science and sorcery to create magitek, all came from him being able to [B]learn[/B] those things. It's also why he's cooler than the FF (among other reasons), considering they were middle-class White-Americans who got their powers instantly in an accident and essentially got a free ticket to being celebrities. Doom represents going about it the hard way, as opposed to just getting a big break. It's also why his ego is such a charm -- sure, he talks a big game, but he's got the skill, experience and power to back it up.

Doom just getting a power by a random accident would completely go against it. It's also why Fox's attempts to streamline his origin and make him more "accessible" are total failures.

[QUOTE=shooshoomanjoe;4572155]Unless it's been retconned, Cloak & Dagger are mutants.

[img]https://d1466nnw0ex81e.cloudfront.net/n_iv/600/731051.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the pic -- I was looking to get this issue since it was mentioned earlier today. Did you read the OHOTMU page I posted earlier? It is said that Cloak and Dagger were victims of an experiment. Mutants are born; Cloak and Dagger were not.

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4572198]It’s funny as C/D have many hallmarks of being mutants. They’ve called themselves mutants, that’s been their title, they’ve hung out with mutants, and they’ve been freaking X-Men. Yet they’re not mutants overall.

Heh, some mutates just gotta be appropriating something that isn’t theirs.[/QUOTE]

I thought the argument was that they were mutants but their latent X-Genes were triggered through some other means. Sort of similar to how stress can be a trigger and Magneto didn't get his mutant abilities until adulthood.

Personally, I'm less a fan of things like this because it ruins the coming of age aspect of being a mutant and it makes them too similar to a traditional superhero origin story. This is especially true for Cloak and Dagger, who don't need to be mutants to explain their origin precisely because they are mutates. That being said, I have no idea if the mutant thing was retconned away or not.

They used the term mutate all the time during the original Genosha slave trade era.

[QUOTE=Sutekh;4572429]He learned it from aliens, so it's not clear.

In the Marvel universe, one can be 'taught' telepathy, and even telekinesis. Moondragon, Mantis, 'Bob' the Uranian of the Agents of Atlas. are all examples of non-mutant humans who were trained by aliens to have powerful psychic abilities. Various magicians, like Dr. Strange, Baron Mordo, Dr. Druid, etc. also use three different sources of power, according to the old Marvel Handbooks, one of which is 'trained' powers like telepathy and telekinesis. SHIELD has, at times, also had dozens of 'sensitives' that are human psychics that don't appear to be mutants.

Presumably Doom's mind-swapping ability is similar, since it's described as something he 'learned' from them, not something he developed after they injected him with some nanobots or gene-triggering serum or hit with some mutagenic ray or whatever.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Frankly, I've always wanted someone to mention this to the X-Telepaths and insult them for being remedial mutants or somesuch. :)

[QUOTE=MyriVerse;4574262]Yup. Frankly, I've always wanted someone to mention this to the X-Telepaths and insult them for being remedial mutants or somesuch. :)[/QUOTE]

It is an oddity, and one that implies that magically-capable folk like Ilyanna could straight up *learn* to have Jean Grey's powers, or that someone like Moondragon or Mantis or even Dr. freeking Druid could *teach* just about anyone to have her powers.

Heck, back in the day, Jean herself seemed to 'learn' telepathy from the Professor, being primarily a telekinetic...

It should be noted that I've even seen mutates hold mutants in contempt. I'm guessing the idea is that their way of getting power is more "earned" then being born with it. I remember Norman Osborn saying that he believes the mutants will one day rise up and kill everyone (to be fair, Osborn kinda hates everyone and has prejudices towards women, the lower class, and aliens, but still).

[QUOTE=Hybrid;4575018]It should be noted that I've even seen mutates hold mutants in contempt. I'm guessing the idea is that their way of getting power is more "earned" then being born with it. I remember Norman Osborn saying that he believes the mutants will one day rise up and kill everyone (to be fair, Osborn kinda hates everyone and has prejudices towards women, the lower class, and aliens, but still).[/QUOTE]

I always figured that was Norman projecting his own psychopathy on everyone else. He talked a good game about wanting to instill order and prevent (further) superhuman chaos from breaking out and ultimately destroying the world, but he was always in it for himself and his own power and advancement. "Mutants rising up and killing everyone" was just him trying to exploit anti-mutant sentiment (as well as general anti-superhuman/superhero sentiment) to get the public on his side, as he presented himself as the strongman who'd get everything under control and not go soft on "threats to humanity," i.e. threats to his own powerbase. That was all it ever was, really.

I first saw the word "mutate" during Civil War. I don't remember the exact comic or issue, but there was something debriefing certain characters (and I guess their stance on the Superhero Registration Act), and it described T'Challa as a "science-mystic mutate". I don't know if it counts as a in-universe use. I think they were meant to be SHIELD files.

[QUOTE=Blind Wedjat;4575981]I first saw the word "mutate" during Civil War. I don't remember the exact comic or issue, but there was something debriefing certain characters (and I guess their stance on the Superhero Registration Act), and it described T'Challa as a "science-mystic mutate". I don't know if it counts as a in-universe use. I think they were meant to be SHIELD files.[/QUOTE]

"Science-mystic" sounds about right, given that his abilities are technically quantifiable through scientific analysis, specifically super-soldier-level physical prowess and enhanced senses stemming from consuming an herb that only grows in Wakanda, but since that herb, along with Wakanda as a whole, was blessed by an actual divine being, mysticism factors into it, too.