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[QUOTE=luprki;4528389]And making all the profit.
How is Disney happy when they are the ones who wanted to change the deal?[/QUOTE]
It sounded like Disney wanted a bigger percentage not for money but that's always nice but for greater creative control on the Marvel Characters Sony has the Film Rights too.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528389]And making all the profit.
[/QUOTE]
Not "all." Disney gets a percentage, albeit a small one. But it's not like it's they're coming out of their own pocket to make the Spidey films so it's still a net gain for them.
Seen someone suggest this was Dinsey plan from the jump. Ingrain spidey so deep into the MCU by tying him to Ironman and making the snap a huge part of his film. And then ending on a cliffhanger. Now the movies are so ridiculously big that Sony has to make a movie where they have to ignore half the **** from previous movies or at the very least do a soft reboot.. none of which is ideal coming off a 1b+ movie. So Disney planned to back Sony into this corner and then make a power play for more control of Spidey. Dont know if I buy it, but seems plausible.
I think it’s time to accept that Sony outsmarted Disney on this one. Sony is no slouch, they can be as shrewd as Disney.
The big question is why Disney would even make this deal? The MCU never needed Spider-Man, was it ego, stupidity or both.
Did someone at Disney looked at the books and said “wait we’re not making money on Spider-Man”?
Disney got 5% for each SM movie, but they paid a fee to Sony when he appeared in a MCU movie. Where is the business sense for Disney. They’re getting 5% and giving it back.
Someone mentioned merchandise. Yes, Disney is reaping the merchandise money. But the irony is that money go through Ike Perlmutter’s Marvel Entertainment not Kevin Feige’s Marvel Studios.
Disney's pocketed what $5M plus all the merchandising from the last Spider-Man film.
If Disney actually chips in on th ebudget say 25 to 30% I think that would definitely warrant a bigger return.
I can't see Sony willingly giving up creative control on every Marvel property. Any executive who agreed to that would be fired immediately. I know some fans are all up in arms with Sony for one reason or another, but from someone in the industry Sony's been doing a really good job business wise for the last couple years. Especially regarding a lot of the tv shows and original series they've done on Netflix and youtube etc. Movies ahve been kind of hit or miss but I like some of the projects they've been investing towards.
That being said Spider-Man is their biggest property. They've been doing Spider-Man movies for 7 years before Disney even bought Marvel. Disney's only had Marvel for a decade. People act like Disney has always owned Marvel.
I'm sure they will come to a new deal, but I've got to say the Sony deal was very favorable to begin with. I understand maybe wanting Feige to work on other projects that give Dosney a bigger payout, but allowing Spidey to be in both Sony films and MCU films was mutually beneficial. Plus Sony did most of the leg work on all the hit Spider-Man films and if you believe the rumors Sony like Tom Holland while Disney wanted them to cast Asa Butterfield, again just a rumor
Since Venom was just mildly interesting, a push to have Spidey and Venom would be yawn. I never liked the symbiote line of stories.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528635]I think it’s time to accept that Sony outsmarted Disney on this one. Sony is no slouch, they can be as shrewd as Disney.
The big question is why Disney would even make this deal? The MCU never needed Spider-Man, was it ego, stupidity or both.
Did someone at Disney looked at the books and said “wait we’re not making money on Spider-Man”?
Disney got 5% for each SM movie, but they paid a fee to Sony when he appeared in a MCU movie. Where is the business sense for Disney. They’re getting 5% and giving it back.
Someone mentioned merchandise. Yes, Disney is reaping the merchandise money. But the irony is that money go through Ike Perlmutter’s Marvel Entertainment not Kevin Feige’s Marvel Studios.[/QUOTE]
Huh? Nothing you just said makes sense.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528635]I think it’s time to accept that Sony outsmarted Disney on this one. Sony is no slouch, they can be as shrewd as Disney.
The big question is why Disney would even make this deal? The MCU never needed Spider-Man, was it ego, stupidity or both.
Did someone at Disney looked at the books and said “wait we’re not making money on Spider-Man”?
Disney got 5% for each SM movie, but they paid a fee to Sony when he appeared in a MCU movie. Where is the business sense for Disney. They’re getting 5% and giving it back.
Someone mentioned merchandise. Yes, Disney is reaping the merchandise money. But the irony is that money go through Ike Perlmutter’s Marvel Entertainment not Kevin Feige’s Marvel Studios.[/QUOTE]
I think the reason they made this deal is simple... they wanted Spider-Man in the MCU. They didn't NEED him... but they wanted him. Just like a lot of the fans wanted him. And they got him.
But it's certainly fair to say Sony got the better end of the agreement. Sony needed this a heck of a lot more than marvel did, and marvel delivered. MCU managed to salvage what was a potentially sinking ship for the IP, and that benefits both sides in long run.
If it was so beneficial to Disney why would they want a change? Sony sure didn’t want a change, only Disney.
I think someone at Disney realised they made a big mistake and went to Sony for a better deal.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528697]If it was so beneficial to Disney why would they want a change? Sony sure didn’t want a change, only Disney.
I think someone at Disney realised they made a big mistake and went to Sony for a better deal.[/QUOTE]
Why not ask for more? They're still in negotiation, so they might end up getting more while keeping Spider-Man in the MCU.
If it doesn't work out, they still got to use him when it really mattered with Civil War, Infinity War, and End Game. So they were able to give fans that at least.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528697]If it was so beneficial to Disney why would they want a change? Sony sure didn’t want a change, only Disney.
I think someone at Disney realised they made a big mistake and went to Sony for a better deal.[/QUOTE]
Because it could always be more beneficial to Disney. Just because Disney wanted a change doesn't mean they weren't benefiting from the old deal. Just because you are doing well doesn't mean you don't want to do better.
[QUOTE=luprki;4528697]If it was so beneficial to Disney why would they want a change? Sony sure didn’t want a change, only Disney.
I think someone at Disney realised they made a big mistake and went to Sony for a better deal.[/QUOTE]
You've got that backwards. Disney benefited, certainly, but Sony benefitted the most. They had one major property left on their docket and it was failing badly. Disney swooped in, offered a sweetheart deal for Sony, and they took it. Sony was saved from itself, it's property restored to good standing, and they got to make a lot of the money on it.
Disney benefited by saving Spiderman's legacy from Sony and they thought they had Sony's nuts so tightly in a vice they could ask something pretty harsh in return. And it's hard to argue, with how the public reacted and the corner Sony is backed into, that they were probably right. Sony is playing nice publicly because, ultimately, I think they want a deal to be reached with Disney. Disney seems to have the more aggressive stance because they, rightly, thought the public would be on their side. They also likely figured Tom Holland will want out of his contract if this happens (another blow for Sony going forward). Among other bargaining issues.
Disney is being the aggressor and probably unreasonably so.....but they also were the ones that saved Sony's ass and made them a lot of money. Hopefully they relent a bit and work something out.
[QUOTE=Jabare;4528637]Disney's pocketed what $5M plus all the merchandising from the last Spider-Man film.
If Disney actually chips in on th ebudget say 25 to 30% I think that would definitely warrant a bigger return.
I can't see Sony willingly giving up creative control on every Marvel property. Any executive who agreed to that would be fired immediately. [B]I know some fans are all up in arms with Sony for one reason or another, but from someone in the industry Sony's been doing a really good job business wise for the last couple years.[/B] Especially regarding a lot of the tv shows and original series they've done on Netflix and youtube etc. Movies ahve been kind of hit or miss but I like some of the projects they've been investing towards.
That being said Spider-Man is their biggest property. They've been doing Spider-Man movies for 7 years before Disney even bought Marvel. Disney's only had Marvel for a decade. People act like Disney has always owned Marvel.
I'm sure they will come to a new deal, but I've got to say the Sony deal was very favorable to begin with. I understand maybe wanting Feige to work on other projects that give Dosney a bigger payout, but allowing Spidey to be in both Sony films and MCU films was mutually beneficial. Plus Sony did most of the leg work on all the hit Spider-Man films and if you believe the rumors Sony like Tom Holland while Disney wanted them to cast Asa Butterfield, again just a rumor[/QUOTE]
1. Disney has owned Marvel since 2009, and turned them into a LLC.
2. Disney owns ~93% of Marvel LLC comic properties, sans some Icon, other imprints, and certain character printing rights (like the Spider-Man news strip).
3. Disney owns ~85% of Marvel LLC movie rights.
4. Disney owns ~35% of Marvel's merchandising rights (i.e Toys, games), the Marvel LLC directly owns ~30%.
5. Sony has not yielded a net profit from 2006-2019 for concurrent years and are still reeling from their ~$6B loss in 2012.
6. Sony net income for the quarter ending June 2019 was $1.384B, a 33.55% decline year-over-year.
7. Sony annual net income for 2018 was $4.417B, a 548.07% increase from 2017.
8. Sony annual net income for 2017 was $0.682B, a 44.44% decline from 2016.
9. Sony has to pay back a loan in 2019 to pay off the 2012 loss and will be looking at another negative year when the year is over in 2019. They have made ~$8B but owe $9.5B this year on the loan.
Sony needs this deal more than Disney.
Spider-Man literally swung in and saved Sony.
And neither are the "bad guy" in this situation, they are trying to turn a sink hole into a profit. The Marvel LLC is self-sustaining since 2017 and Sony really, badly needs a strong IP on the movie side because the PS4 and PS5 development hurt them more than they thought, even though it was #1 in sales, it cost too much to make and they can't run their games at a loss like Microsoft can. Thier movies have really only had MAJOR successes with the Marvel IP when Feige was on loan. Which is why they want Feige ...
Merchandising is down for everybody across the board except for games (video, board, etc), so it makes since for Disney to recoup their investment via film gross.
Personally, if I was Feige, I would quit Disney and become an IC or consultant to Marvel LLC and help Marvel get their own company back away from Sony, Fox, and Disney. He stands to make bank.
I'm only referring to Sony Pictures which has been highly profitable going on 5 years now. Ever since Tony Vinciquerra took over revenues are most certainly up by a big margin.
Yes, Spider-Man is Sony's biggest properties. They bought it in the 90s when Marvel was reeling into bankruptcy it was a smart deal at the time that looks even better now. The deal Disney proposed is something no sensible studio executive would accept it. Its a mutually beneficial deal. Sony still has Spider-Man without the deal. Disney is still Disney without the deal.
Sony doesn’t need Disney. Sony revenue for 2019 is $78 billion, Disney is $65 billion