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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5060504]I feel like anything that has Batman looking like this has a chance of being pretty good.
If he's not in the blue costume with the yellow oval, odds are we're getting Bat-Jerk.[/QUOTE]
I think that's more on the writer or the story than the costume.
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How many books are put that have absolutely nothing to do with Batman? Books where he does not appear and has no presence whatsoever? And what happens to those books, they fail to catch on and they are generally not supported by the readers. They hardly see a dozen issues and are cancelled for lack of support. That has nothing to do with Batman, that's readers/posters who are all talk and no action. They complain that Batman is everywhere and over oversaturating the landscape but when presented with new books they don't buy them. DC is first and foremost a business and all that matters is the bottomline. Batman sells big and makes them a lot of money, other books do not, especially new books and gets no support. Why would they stop selling their biggest revenue maker to put out books that lose them money? Yet people continue to complain that Batman is the problem, that he gets all the shine. Well his fans are loyal and support his books, DC knows his fans are reliable in forking over their hard earned cash for his books. And that will trump any complaints that some will have over representation. Simply put readers have to put up or clam up about Batman's dominance, if they show they will support other characters and support them strongly then DC will have the incentive to showcase other characters more often and in leading roles and positions. And as an aside DC is currently putting out many books right now that doesn't feature Batman. The current Metal event is Wonder Woman focused, Wally West is currently playing a big role in the DCU and so is Superman. But I guess when you're at the top everyone wants to see you fall.
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Their constant dependence on Batman for everything makes me wonder about their financial situation. You don't lean into one character this much unless there is some sort of reason why you need them. Even their "experimental" books mostly revolve around Batman or Batman characters. Most of the [I]Black Label[/I] stuff is either Batman or Harley. You could chalk this up to simply popularity but I do wonder if this isn't something more. When even your "event" books are mostly Batman centric, you have to wonder what is going on up there.
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I don't begrudge DC for doing whatever they need to do to compete and even in that cynical world of sales, they still have lots of cool non-Bats stuff coming out.
But, as I'm reading through these threads I couldn't help but thing, "There's a reason why 'DC' actually stands for 'Detective Comics' and a reason why they changed their name from 'National' to a name that reflected their most popular title... hmm... maybe that legacy is still continuing today."
This seems like pointless nerd complaining.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5060526]I think that's more on the writer or the story than the costume.[/QUOTE]
It is, but I think most of the best character writing we get for Bruce tends to correspond to that costume with that kind of art.
The straight black and gray tends to correspond to Bruce being a stone faced bitch with no personality.
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[QUOTE=superduperman;5060563]Their constant dependence on Batman for everything makes me wonder about their financial situation. You don't lean into one character this much unless there is some sort of reason why you need them. Even their "experimental" books mostly revolve around Batman or Batman characters. Most of the [I]Black Label[/I] stuff is either Batman or Harley. You could chalk this up to simply popularity but I do wonder if this isn't something more. [B]When even your "event" books are mostly Batman centric, you have to wonder what is going on up there.[/B][/QUOTE]
I think that's mostly Snyder.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5060625]It is, but I think most of the best character writing we get for Bruce tends to correspond to that costume with that kind of art.
The straight black and gray tends to correspond to Bruce being a stone faced bitch with no personality.[/QUOTE]
I mean, I've read a lot of Batman comics, and I have seen a wide variety of portrayals of Bruce in various costumes, so I just don't think it's something you can really pigenhole.
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Marvel always managed this better than DC.
DC fell in love with the Omega Hero, the Alpha of Alphas, from the beginning.
From 1938 thru 1988, the Omega was Superman. He got the corporate push far more than any other DC hero did, to the point of oversaturation (for that time). The Reign of Superman lasted a full 50 years.
Since 1989 thru the present day, the Omega has been Batman. He gets all the top creators wanting to work on him, and the character is explicitly made to put other DC heroes down. We are over 30 years into Batman's Reign.
Marvel didn't do it like that. Yes, Spider-Man was their face of the company and their bestseller, but he was no Omega. His status within Marvel always remained far below Captain America or Thor.
So, thanks to over-reliance on one property, DC is far behind on the rest of their stable of heroes, while Marvel has Spider-Man, the Avengers, the X-Men, and Deadpool, at the very least.
I think if DC/WB kept just the Batverse properties and sold everything else (Supes, Wondy, Aqua, GL, Flash, Justice League, Titans, Doom Patrol, Legion, New Gods, Swamp Thing, etc) to Disney or someone else, DC could still be doing OK financially.
And that's actually not good for DC.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5060628]I mean, I've read a lot of Batman comics, and I have seen a wide variety of portrayals of Bruce in various costumes, so I just don't think it's something you can really pigenhole.[/QUOTE]
I'm not being 100% serious here and it's mostly just coincidence. But the character tends to be even more grim and unlikable the further away he moved from that look, and I can't stand him like that.
You're sure to find awful Bat-Dickery with that look and better written Batmen without, but that's not what I've generally experienced.
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Think is why I prefer the Earth One Batman books more than most, was kind of refreshing in age of Batgod to read a Batman series where he isn’t the best at everything and anything.
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[QUOTE=Nite-Wing;5060431]Its a refreshing change of pace and actually works because Batman is popular and paranoid enough to justify being everywhere and involved in everything
BWL for all the grief he gets on this forum is actually their most popular new character in forever
The fact that some on the internet don't like change is usually a sign DC is doing something good[/QUOTE]
What change of pace? This has been going on since at least the 90s.
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[QUOTE=The tall man;5060535]How many books are put that have absolutely nothing to do with Batman? Books where he does not appear and has no presence whatsoever? And what happens to those books, they fail to catch on and they are generally not supported by the readers. They hardly see a dozen issues and are cancelled for lack of support. That has nothing to do with Batman, that's readers/posters who are all talk and no action. They complain that Batman is everywhere and over oversaturating the landscape but when presented with new books they don't buy them. DC is first and foremost a business and all that matters is the bottomline. Batman sells big and makes them a lot of money, other books do not, especially new books and gets no support. Why would they stop selling their biggest revenue maker to put out books that lose them money? Yet people continue to complain that Batman is the problem, that he gets all the shine. Well his fans are loyal and support his books, DC knows his fans are reliable in forking over their hard earned cash for his books. And that will trump any complaints that some will have over representation. Simply put readers have to put up or clam up about Batman's dominance, if they show they will support other characters and support them strongly then DC will have the incentive to showcase other characters more often and in leading roles and positions. And as an aside DC is currently putting out many books right now that doesn't feature Batman. The current Metal event is Wonder Woman focused, Wally West is currently playing a big role in the DCU and so is Superman. But I guess when you're at the top everyone wants to see you fall.[/QUOTE]
Maybe if they actually put effort into establishing other books. Just releasing them is not enough. Look at what marvel did with the movies. Years ago nobody would have thought that cm(who has been cancelled many times) was going to get a billion dollar movie and be at the center of their franchise. Same with the success of Deadpool, Black Panthern, etc. Marvel made so many C list characters shine. And DC can't do half of that with anybody outside batman? And please let's not mention WW. With the amount of inconsistencies and bad writing that she has received from her own label. Her top villain is not Cheetah or Ares. It's DC editors. It's a miracle that her brand has sold as much as it has, and that she is iconic in pop culture despite the mishandling she has received so much.
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[QUOTE=The tall man;5060535]How many books are put that have absolutely nothing to do with Batman? Books where he does not appear and has no presence whatsoever? And what happens to those books, they fail to catch on and they are generally not supported by the readers. They hardly see a dozen issues and are cancelled for lack of support. That has nothing to do with Batman, that's readers/posters who are all talk and no action. They complain that Batman is everywhere and over oversaturating the landscape but when presented with new books they don't buy them. DC is first and foremost a business and all that matters is the bottomline. Batman sells big and makes them a lot of money, other books do not, especially new books and gets no support. Why would they stop selling their biggest revenue maker to put out books that lose them money? Yet people continue to complain that Batman is the problem, that he gets all the shine. Well his fans are loyal and support his books, DC knows his fans are reliable in forking over their hard earned cash for his books. And that will trump any complaints that some will have over representation. Simply put readers have to put up or clam up about Batman's dominance, if they show they will support other characters and support them strongly then DC will have the incentive to showcase other characters more often and in leading roles and positions. And as an aside DC is currently putting out many books right now that doesn't feature Batman. The current Metal event is Wonder Woman focused, Wally West is currently playing a big role in the DCU and so is Superman. But I guess when you're at the top everyone wants to see you fall.[/QUOTE]
Because you invest in products to increase profit in the future. It's like asking why a grocery store doesn't sell just bread even though everyone buys bread.
Plenty of Batman spinoff comics have gotten cancelled for poor sales, as well. That's the point, though, they'll still infinitely regurgitate Bat titles and Bat elseworlds and Bat-spinoffs even if they aren't big sellers on the hopes that Batman's profitable readerbase will shoot on over. Every time they crap out a BATMAN AND THE OUTSIDERS for the fifth time is another book that never got a chance to fail or succeed. It's not like you're going to get something new to spawn out of another Bat title. Even IF it's popular it's just the same popularity that already exists.
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5060648]I'm not being 100% serious here and it's mostly just coincidence. But the character tends to be even more grim and unlikable the further away he moved from that look, and I can't stand him like that.
You're sure to find awful Bat-Dickery with that look and better written Batmen without, but that's not what I've generally experienced.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's a 1-to-1 thing. With a darker look he had darker stories but there were still plenty of stories featuring his humanity and heart. Or at least back then his attitude problems actually had a point and were meant for character development instead of just being default characterization.
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;5060663]What change of pace? This has been going on since at least the 90s.[/QUOTE]
engage in rampant hyperbole all you want but Batman headlined no major crisis tier events until recently in fact in the 90s he had his back broken and was removed from JL
When Superman died in the 90s and got brought back he was everywhere
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[QUOTE=Gaius;5060658]Think is why I prefer the Earth One Batman books more than most, was kind of refreshing in age of Batgod to read a Batman series where he isn’t the best at everything and anything.[/QUOTE]
When I need to remember why I like Bruce... I read Earth One.
[QUOTE=mystical41;5060687]Maybe if they actually put effort into establishing other books. Just releasing them is not enough. Look at what marvel did with the movies. Years ago nobody would have thought that cm(who has been cancelled many times) was going to get a billion dollar movie and be at the center of their franchise. Same with the success of Deadpool, Black Panthern, etc. Marvel made so many C list characters shine. And DC can't do half of that with anybody outside batman? And please let's not mention WW. With the amount of inconsistencies and bad writing that she has received from her own label. Her top villain is not Cheetah or Ares. It's DC editors. It's a miracle that her brand has sold as much as it has, and that she is iconic in pop culture despite the mishandling she has received so much.[/QUOTE]
You are right about WW but Black Panther is the same. His comics feel ignored and nowhere near the level of success coming after a huge movie hit. WW and Black Panther.... imgine Batman having one title, maybe a team book after Batman '89 or the Nolan trilogy and this book would be written by newcomers or mediocre writers