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[QUOTE=Yoda;4521673]But I think the biggest reason he's not is that he just learned about Lois's connection to Superman a few days prior to the attack, so Leviathan's attitude toward Superman as an organization would likely have been more antagonistic if it was Sam Lane's brain child. Prior to that meeting with Lois, which seems to have thrown him for a loop, he still had an issue with Superman. The attack in Leviathan Rising seems likely to have been an attempt to recruit him & take out Waller with what we've learned so far. Same with the hospital meeting. They were trying to bring him in, quietly given they used an agent and not the big teleporting hulk thing. He wasn't going to be left as a witness like Trevor was, that already happened and they were at a random location. His heart attack seems to have thrown a wrench in that.[/QUOTE]
I find it hard to figure out what things are meant to rule other things out and what things are just inconsistencies. For example, there are comments about there being no bodies, but then we see bodies at the DEO destruction. Leviathan seemingly threw Talia out to her death, but are we to think that was meant to kill her or that they somehow knew Superman was coming and distracted him? Leviathan uses that blue energy to capture everyone including Tiger and Eliza but not Waller?
I have no doubt there are people playing the role of Leviathan at this point. When they visited Harper in the hospital they mentioned having recruited a surprising number of people, and whoever is playing the role of Leviathan sounds more immature than who is meeting with people to actually recruit them, but that might just be due to Bendis-speak.
So the only things I can try to rely on are character motivations. When Lane meets Waller she is under the impression that he is friendly to Superman, and don't forget Leviathan's conversation with Leone which changed their mind about Superman.
Bendis has pointed out the mystery starts with "why" and then that will lead to "who". Sometimes I feel the "why" is Lois (something that Lane has repeated several times). So the who would be her father.
Now, those are good points against him, still, but I am having a hard time considering anyone who a list of reasons against is not possible. And while I might end up ruling out Lane, the process hopefully will help in considering other suspects.
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[QUOTE=cranger;4521800]I find it hard to figure out what things are meant to rule other things out and what things are just inconsistencies. For example, there are comments about there being no bodies, but then we see bodies at the DEO destruction. Leviathan seemingly threw Talia out to her death, but are we to think that was meant to kill her or that they somehow knew Superman was coming and distracted him? Leviathan uses that blue energy to capture everyone including Tiger and Eliza but not Waller? [/quote]
I think the skeleton we saw in that one scene from the DEO may have been an art mistake or inconsistency as you say. The way they have stressed "no bodies" since then seems to imply that. I think you're correct that they tossed Talia to distract Superman. It's also a little inconsistent that Talia is the one to kidnap Clark, an idea from Leone, but it's apparently Leviathan that had the conversation with Leone. I suppose it's possible that that information was relayed to her and then she executed the plan prematurely.
[QUOTE]I have no doubt there are people playing the role of Leviathan at this point. When they visited Harper in the hospital they mentioned having recruited a surprising number of people, and whoever is playing the role of Leviathan sounds more immature than who is meeting with people to actually recruit them, but that might just be due to Bendis-speak.[/QUOTE]
It's possible that the difference in voice is intentional, but I think that is probably just Bendis speak. Though I am pretty convinced if it's not someone like Ollie, the "role" of Leviathan is being shared by several people at this point - or will be shown to be an intentional fabrication like Keyer Soze or similar to Ken Wantabe's Ra's in Batman Begins.
[QUOTE]So the only things I can try to rely on are character motivations. When Lane meets Waller she is under the impression that he is friendly to Superman, and don't forget Leviathan's conversation with Leone which changed their mind about Superman.
[/QUOTE]
Well, Waller jokingly asks him if he's now friends with Superman after he tells her he thinks Lois finally convinced him he's been going about it wrong. So up to that point her understanding of Lane's position was that he was antagonistic to him. Now granted, that could line up with the way Leviathan reacts to Superman after that. There's no prior material to so any orientation towards Superman. So despite my dismissal of it, if it were to play out that way I wouldn't be that surprised.
[QUOTE]Bendis has pointed out the mystery starts with "why" and then that will lead to "who". Sometimes I feel the "why" is Lois (something that Lane has repeated several times). So the who would be her father.[/QUOTE]
I can't figure out the "why" with Sam Lane. I don't see Lois as having any impact on Leviathan's motivation prior to the meeting with her, and that happens more or less concurrently with the start of their coup. Leviathan was active and bringing people down before Lois' talk with him. So he would have had to have been planning this coup far longer than that. I also have a harder time seeing Sam Lane recruiting capes even with Lois having revealed to him Clark's identity. It's interesting that I don't think we've seen any powered Leviathan recruits yet besides the teleporter.
The "why" for me still only points to Green Arrow. Someone who had a series of events involving both the clandestine side of the DCU and the capes and had the "come to Jesus" moment that they don't consider him or people like him to be a serious person or threat and the whole world is wrong.
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I actually realized exactly who Leviathan was.
It's deceptively simple. No spoilers, no DMs, I want to play this hunch out, but I'm like 100% on it.
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[QUOTE=K. Jones;4521860]I actually realized exactly who Leviathan was.
It's deceptively simple. No spoilers, no DMs, I want to play this hunch out, but I'm like 100% on it.[/QUOTE]
I know the feeling, I only throw out ideas I am 10% behind. If I see something that I am 100% I save it, as I feel like it is more fun to figure out on ones own.
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[QUOTE=cranger;4521867]I know the feeling, I only throw out ideas I am 10% behind. If I see something that I am 100% I save it, as I feel like it is more fun to figure out on ones own.[/QUOTE]But if you brag you are 100% sure, and then don't share your idea on a thread specifically about sharing ideas, I think it's kind of rude? It certainly doesn't contribute to discussion. And it's also unprovable, so why should anyone take you seriously about being 100% sure. And if you don't care if they take you seriously, why post?
Share your ideas or don't, but don't tease, you know?
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I too also know 100% who Leviathan is!
I'm not telling you though!
I am just letting you know, so that, if I'm right, I can gloat, but if I'm wrong, I can still pretend I knew all along. ;)
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I mean, it was super obvious to me from the very beginning, but I didn't want to ruin all of [I]your[/I] fun -- I'm just being a good guy by not telling you all...
And I won't even gloat when it turns out that I was right the whole time. It'll be enough that [I]I[/I] know. ;)
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I'm going say who I think it is. I'm thinking it's going to be Lois Lane.
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Ollie’s “daddy issues” line could be a big clue. A lot of sidekicks have had tumultuous relationships with their mentors from time to time. The Red Hood kind of admiring the work that Leviathan has done. A connection between Red Hood and Green Arrow is Roy Harper. He was an agent of Checkmate at one time. So there is a connection to the world of espionage.
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[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4522826]I too also know 100% who Leviathan is!
I'm not telling you though!
I am just letting you know, so that, if I'm right, I can gloat, but if I'm wrong, I can still pretend I knew all along. ;)[/QUOTE]
If you have a theory but don't publicly mention you have a theory do you even really have a theory?
Haha.
No I won't brag or use my ambiguity to be like "aha I am so smart but can't prove it now but trust me I figured it out" or anything. I'm just pretty sure I got it and that the big clue is staring at us and don't overthink the possibilities for who, focus on the big deceptively obvious clue.
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[QUOTE=Robotman;4524621]Ollie’s “daddy issues” line could be a big clue. A lot of sidekicks have had tumultuous relationships with their mentors from time to time. The Red Hood kind of admiring the work that Leviathan has done. A connection between Red Hood and Green Arrow is Roy Harper. He was an agent of Checkmate at one time. So there is a connection to the world of espionage.[/QUOTE]
Roy being Leviathan would suit DC's current agenda of derailing the Titans. They'd have to explain how he survived and obtained all these resources.
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Nah. Its Nuperman. Finally showing off how truly diabolical he always was, while being assisted by Bendis' Jon Kent, whom has kidnapped and imprisoned the real Jon Kent elsewhere after brainwashing Lois and Clark into being terrible parents.
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[QUOTE=Jackalope89;4524812]Nah. Its Nuperman. Finally showing off how truly diabolical he always was, while being assisted by Bendis' Jon Kent, whom has kidnapped and imprisoned the real Jon Kent elsewhere after brainwashing Lois and Clark into being terrible parents.[/QUOTE]
Well, we have seen Kryptonians hypnotize people before...
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[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4522826]I too also know 100% who Leviathan is!
I'm not telling you though!
I am just letting you know, so that, if I'm right, I can gloat, but if I'm wrong, I can still pretend I knew all along. ;)[/QUOTE]
You can’t start this thread then hold out on your own prediction!
[QUOTE=MeGrimlock420;4524523]I'm going say who I think it is. I'm thinking it's going to be Lois Lane.[/QUOTE]
But why? I’ve seen a few people say this but I don’t see anything actually pointing to her.
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[QUOTE=Yoda;4525063]You can’t start this thread then hold out on your own prediction![/QUOTE]
I was joking, of course. I'm already on record as saying that I think it's Ollie. He's the only one that makes sense who's been there from the very start. If Bendis is playing fair, and I believe he is, then whomever Leviathan is would be there from the very beginning.
No, it's possible Bendis may pull the old "Leviathan is multiple people" shtick, which would also make sense, but I think Ollie is the main suspect.
