Who was older on screen? Lois or Clark?

[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;5028091]It makes sense given the classic story of Superman, where Lois is already a reporter before Clark arrives. Of course, she doesn't have to be older for that to be the case--Clark could have just been doing other things.

What got me thinking about this were the reviews of the latest Will Ferrell movie (the one about the Eurovision song contest) where he and Rachel McAdams are supposed to be the same age but clearly are not. And reviewers pass this off as typical Hollywood casting. It's always an older male paired with a younger female. But then I thought, there are rare exceptions to the rule and Superman seems to be one of them.[/QUOTE]

I’m sort of the opinion that I don’t need or require an “explanation” for why she’s older exactly for the reason you stated above regarding how rare it is.

Like, yes, it “makes sense” for Lois to be an experienced reporter when Clark shows up but...I can’t explain it....having to provide a reason why Lois is older has just never sat well with me. Because we never ask men to explain why they are older for a narrative. They just are.

There are so few genuine love stories between older women/younger men in fiction and Lois and Clark is one of the only ones we have. The others I guess would be Jaime and Claire from Outlander (Claire is supposed to be 6-7 years older than Jaime but the actors are the same age) and Anakin and Padme (which we know how that turned out.). It’s just such a rare wonderful thing to just have a man desire a more experienced woman ::just because:: and for her age to never be a thing that needs explaining.

[QUOTE=Nelliebly;5034129]I’m sort of the opinion that I don’t need or require an “explanation” for why she’s older exactly for the reason you stated above regarding how rare it is.

Like, yes, it “makes sense” for Lois to be an experienced reporter when Clark shows up but...I can’t explain it....having to provide a reason why Lois is older has just never sat well with me. Because we never ask men to explain why they are older for a narrative. They just are.

There are so few genuine love stories between older women/younger men in fiction and Lois and Clark is one of the only ones we have. The others I guess would be Jaime and Claire from Outlander (Claire is supposed to be 6-7 years older than Jaime but the actors are the same age) and Anakin and Padme (which we know how that turned out.). It’s just such a rare wonderful thing to just have a man desire a more experienced woman ::just because:: and for her age to never be a thing that needs explaining.[/QUOTE]

Age aside, I did like that in Lois and Clark the tv series, they discuss rather maturely, that Lois is more sexually experienced while Clark is still a virgin. That's really unusual for a romantic lead that's an adult male to be a virgin, especially with a more experienced woman. That was a pretty progressive move for a 90s super hero show.

[QUOTE=witchboy;5034154]Age aside, I did like that in Lois and Clark the tv series, they discuss rather maturely, that Lois is more sexually experienced while Clark is still a virgin. That's really unusual for a romantic lead that's an adult male to be a virgin, especially with a more experienced woman. That was a pretty progressive move for a 90s super hero show.[/QUOTE]

It was and I agree. I remember watching that as a kid and it really stayed with me because it was so rare to see a man portrayed that way and a woman being more experienced. And he never shames her. He doesn’t care. It was really progressive.

The only part of it that seemed a bit off after that was that they waited until they were married to have sex. Clark never said he was waiting for marriage, just the right partner. That part seemed to have more to do with ABC and the network being afraid to show pre-marital sex with Superman. Which is funny because although Superman is always portrayed as less sexually experienced than Lois, I’ve never gotten the impression that he felt the need to wait for marriage to sleep with her. He’s into monogamy and obviously a one woman guy but that doesn’t necessarily translate to conservative though people confuse the issues.

Oddly enough, Dean Cain wrote that. He was given some creative freedom and it was his decision to make Clark a virgin which was interesting given that he was a notorious playboy. But he didn’t feel it suited Clark. I’ll give him credit for that bc not all men would have done that especially back then. But I still don’t like him anymore as a person.

I should add that although I said I prefer them to not make an issue of her being older and just let it be what it is without feeling the need to “explain” it....I thought Smallville’s deliberate choice to just portray Lois as older and college age while he was still in high school was great.

Mainly bc on that show Clark was constantly surrounded by “girls” (compounded by the fact that the actresses who played Lana and Chloe were both like 6 years younger than Tom) so when Lois showed up (played by an actress who was more mature) it felt very much like Lois was a woman and not a kid.

Clark had to grow into Lois on Smallville. He was not at all ready for someone like her when she first showed up. His growth from boy to man tracked with his ability to be with Lois. And that was actually great.

To be honest I didn't even really consciously think of there being an age difference before this thread.

What's funny is that, technically, no one knows Clark's exact age.

That is pretty strange that they would have an older woman playing Lois to a younger Clark most of the time. Don't forget, in the first Superman movie in which Margot was older than Chris, in the movie, Clark is older than Lois because of the scene when Clark was a teenager when he was running beside a running train and showed Lois as a little girl inside the train watching Clark run at super speed. I guess in terms of their ages, it depends on the writers and directors running the movies and comics. It fluctuates every now and then it seems.

I always figured when Jeff East entered the Fortress of Solitude and Chris Reeve exited, there was some time shenanigans.

I think the reason we most often get an older, experienced actress to play Lois is because they want at least one star that has an established screen presence. With Superman, rather than cast a big name, they cast someone who looks the part. Having a strong actress to play Lois gives the Superman actor a good scene partner.

[QUOTE=Dr. Skeleton;5043953]That is pretty strange that they would have an older woman playing Lois to a younger Clark most of the time. Don't forget, in the first Superman movie in which Margot was older than Chris, in the movie, Clark is older than Lois because of the scene when Clark was a teenager when he was running beside a running train and showed Lois as a little girl inside the train watching Clark run at super speed. I guess in terms of their ages, it depends on the writers and directors running the movies and comics. It fluctuates every now and then it seems.[/QUOTE]

The majority of media you consume has an older male actor paired with a younger woman. We are essentially brain washed by how sexist it is.

There is nothing “strange” about a woman who is a few years older than her male partner. It only seems “strange” or even noticeable because the majority of other heterosexual pairings are so sexist.

What kind of surprised me in this thread was that some folks have said Clark went to college. Isn't he usually depicted as having come straight from Smallville to Metropolis and trying to get a job in journalism, landing either at the Daily Star or the Daily Planet, or one after the other, depending on which version of Clark Kent we're talking about? I don't think I've ever seen Superman: The College Years. :)

In today's world, it might be more realistic for Clark to go to college and then try to get a job. In the world of 1938, though, it would probably have been more typical to get a job after high school, with the years in between sometimes going back and forth, but generally arcing towards journalism being more likely to require a college degree (At least at a big time paper- if we're counting blogs and such, that may not be true).

It just seems like after seeing a zillion and one Superman origin stories on screen and in the comics, a fair amount of coverage of his time in Smallville, and a fair amount about of his first days in Metropolis (My favorite early Metropolis Clark stories were in the New52, but that is true basically across the board in terms of my Superman preferences). It's notable that even very quickly when they merge the New52 Superman's continuity with the Rebirth Superman's continuity, they show Superman meeting Lois in flashback for the first time very quickly (I guess it could have been before that- early in the Rebirth run.). That seems the second most popular thing for writers and editors to do (Not popular with fans, popular with writers and editors), right after re-doing his origin story over and over again with ad nauseam- like almost to Batman's parents getting shot in flashback in almost every single movie levels.

If I ever did a Superman reboot, it would start with him in Metropolis. I would not do yet another origin story that starts earlier than that unless ordered to. :) If something related to it came up naturally in the flow of the comics or someone asked me in an interview, the thing that came up or the answer I'd give would be consistent with the basic story they always tell and I'd say I don't think most people want to see it again. The exception is if I were doing an Earth 52 thing, because Clark's parents dying early had a big impact on that Superman's development as a hero, *but*, even there, that's already been done, so I'd just reference the back issues of the New52 series that do it, maybe one or two flashback panels if absolutely needed for a story that was about something else if focus group data was showing that people didn't know that Superman's background anymore (The more time that passes, the less one could count on people knowing it.).

Anyone remember if Clark went to college in the New52? I don't remember it.

I'm not suggesting that they do a "Superman: The College Years". That sounds horrible. It just seems like the horrible sort of thing they'd have already done eight times if we were meant to think Clark went to college. The farm boy in the big city dynamic whenever Clark's early years are depicted seems like it wouldn't happen if he had spent 4 years at a big university in between. I've always assumed he's only high school educated (But because he's Superman, he knows a lot more than some people with PHDs, and can write on the level he needs to to be an ace reporter pretty easily- it's just that Lois is slightly better at it because of her experience in journalism and tough as nails instincts and investigative gumption. Remember that comic book where Clark, knowing nothing of medicine, quickly reads an entire medical library and performs surgery to save someone's life when the doctors don't think they can save her? I figure that Clark knows everything he needs to know, he just doesn't quite have Lois' instincts and skills in applied investigative journalism. Clark's main vocation is really to be Superman. Lois is first and foremost an investigative journalist.).

One can also kind of see why Clark would moon over someone the way he does with Lois if he met her at 18 fresh out of Smallville, having only dated Lana, his small town girlfriend, previously (At least only seriously dating her), versus meeting her at 22 or 23 fresh off of dating half the women at a big college (Let's face it Clark can wear glasses with loose fitting shorts, and fall over and spill things a lot, but he's still got enough going for him that some women are going to notice him anyway- see, Grant, Kat. ;) ).

[QUOTE=SuperCrab;5045423]What kind of surprised me in this thread was that some folks have said Clark went to college. Isn't he usually depicted as having come straight from Smallville to Metropolis and trying to get a job in journalism, landing either at the Daily Star or the Daily Planet, or one after the other, depending on which version of Clark Kent we're talking about?[/quote]

[i]Superman: The Movie[/i] had him training for 12 years before arriving in Metropolis.

[I]Lois & Clark[/I] had him travelling the world for a few years before arriving in Metropolis.

[i]Smallville[/i] had him struggle with what he wanted to do, and Metropolis was basically down the road (one time, Jimmy seemed to be able to drive there faster than Clark ran...).

[i]Man of Steel[/i] had him wander around North America for quite a while (it's unclear if he went to university/college after John's passing) before settling in Metropolis.


[quote] I don't think I've ever seen Superman: The College Years. :)[/quote]

You've never seen the John Newton/Gerard Christopher series from the 80s?

Read [I]The Secret Years[/I] (also from the 80s)?

Fun times :)

My Father-In-Law became a Journalalist after leaving school and becoming a Cadet in the 1950's. This was common in Australia, I'm not sure about the 1950's. I grew up watching the 1950's series when Clark and Lois were more on an equal footing, though Clark was less cynical and there was no romance between them, more of a rivalry. Lois seemed to be trying to undermine Clark more, with her constant jibes.

[quote]The farm boy in the big city dynamic whenever Clark's early years are depicted seems like it wouldn't happen if he had spent 4 years at a big university in between. I've always assumed he's only high school educated (But because he's Superman, he knows a lot more than some people with PHDs, and can write on the level he needs to to be an ace reporter pretty easily- it's just that Lois is slightly better at it because of her experience in journalism and tough as nails instincts and investigative gumption. Remember that comic book where Clark, knowing nothing of medicine, quickly reads an entire medical library and performs surgery to save someone's life when the doctors don't think they can save her? I figure that Clark knows everything he needs to know, he just doesn't quite have Lois' instincts and skills in applied investigative journalism. Clark's main vocation is really to be Superman. Lois is first and foremost an investigative journalist.).[/quote]I really don't like the "farm boy in the big city" dynamic that's been used in the modern era (was the 1978 movie the first to play that up?). It was not present in the early stories at all. I dislike it for making Lois nasty for picking on him over it. I do not like it because of the theme of small town people being morally superior or his values being intrinsically better for having not been raised in a large city. It's cast a flavor on Superman and on his relationship with others that was not present at all in the early decades. And, indeed, in the silver age Lois came from a farm family herself, but it didn't matter - it doesn't make a character naive or salt of the earth or anything else. Originally his parents were farmers because it was an [i]extremely[/i] common occupation of the time (1910s-1920s). It was just a job, nothing more (in 1920 [url=https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/20/us/farm-population-lowest-since-1850-s.html]30.2%[/url] of the US population lived on farms). Heck, by time the Superboy series came along, his parents had long-since moved into town and ran a general store (in a one-off in Superman #1, I think, we saw him bouncing around Metropolis as a kid, despite being round by a farm couple).

I can very much go with idea that Lois is the one with the calling to be a journalist, while to Clark it's a means-to-an-end.

And, as others have pointed out, at least since the 1980s, the story has been that Clark went college. It's been various colleges. And some colleges are small-town. I favor a public in-state (Kansas) university for Clark. Actually, I believe Lori Lemaris was introduced as his college sweetheart in 1959, so Clark as a college guy was established way longer ago than the 1980s.

Well, in the movies Superman is in his early 30s when the world learns of his existence, I think. Cavill Superman was like 33 and Reeve was about the same as the character (I know he was really in his mid 20s). Routh Superman probably in his late 30s :p because 5 years had passed.

I imagine Kidder Lois was also supposed to be in the early 30s and Amy Lois too. So both Superman and Lois were about the same age when they first meet.

I'm not sure Cavill Superman was a virgin when he puts the suit on, but it seems Reeve Supes was. I'm sure Lois wasn't because she seemed more worldly.

Well, if women suffer permanent memory loss when he kisses them, imagine what happens when he--