Should the MCU X-men lean heavily into the minority metophor?

[QUOTE=Killerbee911;5543479]Isolationist don't throw big parties, Isolationist don't go out of there way to have business and make connections in the world, Krakoa is Isolated , Mutants are not trying being isolated there is difference. Saying Krakoa is isolationist is like your coworkers trying to say you isolationist because you don't invite them to your house. Coworkers: "You come to all functions but you don't invite us into your home, You are isolationist" You: I just don't want anyone in my house but I really have no problems with you guys any place else.[/QUOTE]

I don't have any problem with a group made out of African Americans, Gay men and women, muslims, etc, exploring the experiences that come with that. But the OP was asking about the mutant metaphor.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5543649]I don't have any problem with a group made out of African Americans, Gay men and women, muslims, etc, exploring the experiences that come with that. But the OP was asking about the mutant metaphor.[/QUOTE]

which is different how?

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5542961]3. Question for everyone: Do you need your X-Men stories to address discrimination? I'm not sure if stories about real-life marginalization are going to take center stage even if they de-emphasize the metaphor.[/QUOTE]

I like it when stories touch on discrimination. In fact I want certain properties to go even further than that and point out the actual problems distinct minority groups go through everyday. My issue is that X-men is about being a minority in the most general sense so it misses a lot of finer details. I'm an ethnic minority in where I live and I'd be lying if I say I see myself in X-men but I'm happy for those that do. That's why I hope when X-men comes to the MCU discrimination is still part of its story but not the main focus and X-men leaves the heavy lifting to other properties when it comes to addressing minority issues.

These "the metaphor is outdated/senseless" arguments are all for naught as they will racebend the majority of white X-Men. Just look at the Eternals cast. If they are somehow reflective of Celestials, who may also influence how mutants come to being in the MCU, how will the X-Men be [I]less[/I] diverse than the Eternals?

Also, it makes sense in more ways than one. Erik can't be a Holocaust survivor now so the most effective alternative is to make Charles and him be African-American children in the Civil Rights era, reflecting MLK and Malcolm X respectively as Stan Lee (retroactively) claimed them to be.

Similar reason why if they go the First Class route, Scott, Jean, Warren and Hank could also be POC's. Bobby being gay already makes him a minority.

So real-life minorities playing the majority of X-Men refreshes and revitalizes the metaphor. Problem solved.

[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543651]which is different how?[/QUOTE]

Discrimination is fictive? Powers?

[QUOTE=BroHomo;5543651]which is different how?[/QUOTE]

The mutant metaphor as defined since the 90s is a concept that states mutants can be used as a generic and very broad metaphor for discrimination of any kind, and an alienated community. It reminds me of that Rick and Morty episode where an alien race has an hierarchy whre people woth squares on their chest are more important than people with triangles in their chest. The mitant metaphor is an equally absurd metaphor that teaches us nothing about actual life. The reasons why mutants are pursued by giant purple robots are totally different from police over patrolling and using abusive unproportional force on african americans.

This idea is bad. Whereas having african american mutants or gay mutants talk about the actual real world challenges they face because they are african american and gay makes sense.

[QUOTE=Killerbee911;5543394]I will put it this way for some people, The X-men are "the Mutant Avengers". The X-men is a story about Superheroes are who are minority stand-ins the sole primary focus isn't about telling a story focus on racism and oppression. It is like telling a story about Cops and going well the story is about a Black Cop so it has to be about racism. But being a story about Black person and their life there is going to bits about racism and oppression as part of their experience that will cross over in their work lives as well.

The X-men stories should be them running around fighting Dr. Doom, Ultron, Magneto, and others and when they are home living their lives they deal with mutant issues. Yes sometimes mutant issues can and should intersect superheroes stuff like Morlocks, Genosha and mutant criminals would highlight that stuff but it is crazy the number of people who think yeah X-men is about mutants being hated and fear stories should revolve around that. No X-men are story about superheroes.

Again it is like telling story of Black Doctor, Lawyer or Cop in early 1900s in US choosing to focus on nothing but only racism instead choosing to focus on what a Doctor, Lawyer or Cop does as job. You don't have to stress racist or oppression because it will come up just a part of what is happening.[/QUOTE]

The X-Men are not the Mutant Avengers. this is just not the truth. Even when X-MEN had crossovers with X-Force, New Mutants and X-Factor, no fan ever said, this is a Mutant Avengers team. I have never heard that before and I have been an XMEN fan for almost 30+ years and studied their almost 70 year history, [B]even Chris Claremont has said XMEN is different from Avengers or Spiderman. [/B]

X-Men and Avengers have nothing in common in concept and in the real world, they should not even share a universe because thy reason they both exist should not make much of sense in the same universe. this is the reason why the most common question asked about xmen now that people know more about Avengers, is...... [B]why do people fear the xmen and not avengers. [/B]

I am sorry but some people just need to this with over the top MCU propaganda stuff about X-MEN. it is too trying too hard to make X-MEN 100% fit in the MCU when they mostly don't, the proof is the 90s cartoon. that show treated xmen like the rest of the other marvel series such as Iron Man and Captain America, Daredevil and F4 did not exist, when it was not the same approach they used the 90s Spiderman cartoon.

[QUOTE=Alpha;5543737]The mutant metaphor as defined since the 90s is a concept that states mutants can be used as a generic and very broad metaphor for discrimination of any kind, and an alienated community. It reminds me of that Rick and Morty episode where an alien race has an hierarchy whre people woth squares on their chest are more important than people with triangles in their chest. The mitant metaphor is an equally absurd metaphor that teaches us nothing about actual life. The reasons why mutants are pursued by giant purple robots are totally different from police over patrolling and using abusive unproportional force on african americans.

This idea is bad. Whereas having african american mutants or gay mutants talk about the actual real world challenges they face because they are african american and gay makes sense.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that the X-Men don’t spend nearly as much time “talking” about discrimination as they do fighting off people/ robots trying to kill them because they’re mutants. I can confidently say as a queer black person that I have no desire to watch a movie about Sentinels that are programmed to go after black and gay people. That’s trauma porn at it’s finest.

The so called mutant metaphor will never and should never be taken seriously as long as marvel tries to push the idea that the likes of Emma, Rogue, Logan, Lorna, Kitty, etc... suffer more racism, bigotry, prejudice and oppression than the Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage. That outlook will never not be cringe and insulting. Put Emma and Sam Wilson side by side and ask a non comic reader who they think is more the victim of oppression and bigotry. Most if not all will say Sam and when told no actually it's the beautiful blonde rich white woman who experiences more bigotry and oppression either the one asking the question will get the side eye or outright laughed at, and the X-men franchise will most likely be seen as a joke for even suggesting that possibility. In this day and age no one thinks a rich white woman suffers more bigotry than a black man especially in the US, but they are supposed to think and accept that they do in X-men comics, it defies suspension of belief. In a world of make believe you can accept almost anything but some things you pump the breaks on. And this notion that beautiful white people with amazing abilities and living in a mansion or island paradise are oppressed more than black and brown people in the inner cities is one where you slam on the breaks hard. It's hard for anyone to take it seriously anymore.

[QUOTE=davetvs;5542943]How is it outdated? Did the world suddenly start treating minority groups with respect instead of finding ways to discriminate against and oppress them? There is literally a genocide happening right now.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the problem is none of this people can actually tell us how it is outdated. LMAO.

They just keep saying so, but constantly saying so is not going to make it true.

This themes has been ever present with many characters in the xmen universe regardless of their race dealing with it.


Those who keep saying they are outdated, I always notice they have no evidence to show of it. the only evidence that exist is MCU X-Men just becoming...another action packed comic book film with none of this themes there. I sort of feel bad for many xmen fans because many of you dont deserves this, just because a studio cannot tell your stories about this themes is not a good enough reason to nix it.

Batman fans are much luckier, the main theme of Batman is crime and policing, many batman fans are not be hounded by people saying batman should not be about [B]criminology[/B] anymore because warner brothers can only do fun light hearted action comic book films.

[QUOTE=The tall man;5543764]The so called mutant metaphor will never and should never be taken seriously as long as marvel tries to push the idea that the likes of Emma, Rogue, Logan, Lorna, Kitty, etc... suffer more racism, bigotry, prejudice and oppression than the Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage. That outlook will never not be cringe and insulting. Put Emma and Sam Wilson side by side and ask a non comic reader who they think is more the victim of oppression and bigotry. Most if not all will say Sam and when told no actually it's the beautiful blonde rich white woman who experiences more bigotry and oppression either the one asking the question will get the side eye or outright laughed at, and the X-men franchise will most likely be seen as a joke for even suggesting that possibility. In this day and age no one thinks a rich white woman suffers more bigotry than a black man especially in the US, but they are supposed to think and accept that they do in X-men comics, it defies suspension of belief. In a world of make believe you can accept almost anything but some things you pump the breaks on. And this notion that beautiful white people with amazing abilities and living in a mansion or island paradise are oppressed more than black and brown people in the inner cities is one where you slam on the breaks hard. It's hard for anyone to take it seriously anymore.[/QUOTE]
Ooh, uncomfortably close to the knuckle on Kitty there. What kind of monsters would ever want to hurt Kitty?

[QUOTE=Frobisher;5543771]Ooh, uncomfortably close to the knuckle on Kitty there. [B]What kind of monsters would ever want to hurt Kitty?[/B][/QUOTE]

Non-racist people? :p

[QUOTE=Kingdom X;5543763][B]The problem is that the X-Men don’t spend nearly as much time “talking” about discrimination as they do fighting off people[/B]/ robots trying to kill them because they’re mutants. I can confidently say as a queer black person that I have no desire to watch a movie about Sentinels that are programmed to go after black and gay people. That’s trauma porn at it’s finest.[/QUOTE]


This is not true,to be dear to u, the reflex mirror of this is true, this is the reason X-MEN is more seen as a drama than an action series. Here is someone explaining it. In this video.
[video=youtube;FJPYCvKn2qQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJPYCvKn2qQ[/video]

in the history of xmen, there is more drama and soap opera settings than fighting. this is why neither Xavier or magneto ever fought in any of the movies where this issue themes was the main focus I feel topic like this will bold more well, if there was not much false narratives told about the XMEN universe and comics and sadly I seem to notice, this started becoming a pattern when it became official that xmen will be in the MCU.


[QUOTE] I can confidently say as a queer black person that I have no desire to watch a movie about Sentinels that are programmed to go after black and gay people. [B][U]That’s trauma porn [/U][/B]at it’s fines[/QUOTE]

this is part of the issue we talk about what you described is more of mature and darker story and it has already happened to great critical acclaim both in books and films and even cartoons.

When DOFP first aired on TAS in 1992/1993, it was a ground breaking moment for Saturday morning cartoon because kids were not used to seeing stories like that. stories that dealt with genocide, people been hunted down and sent to concentration camps.

Bryan Singer was...is gay/bi sexual, he directed Days of future past the movie and he talked about how the story affected him as a disfranchised person and how anyone who was different can relate to it. in that film, the speech Magneto gave. Magneto says in quote....[B]''come out...no more hiding''[/B]. Which is obviously about LGBT people in the closest.

As a person who is a big xmen fan, taking to a big MCU fan as you are, you having no desire to relate to it because MCU cannot do a Sentinel based film like DOFP, does not change the reality of what has been done. Also it confirms why we want X-Men to be separate from the MCU, calling it [B]''trauma porn'' [/B]is just objectively not true because many xmen characters have dealt with this trauma of the Sentinels hunting them down but this is why we say xmen stories were mature because they explore all this themes deeply and knew how to handle this sort of adult themes even in their 90s cartoons.

Some MCU fans having no desire to see them, is not the fault of XMEN or their fans. the stories have already been written.[B] DOFP, E is for Extinction, Schism[/B] just to name a few Sentinels focused stories I can remember of people been hunted down. Obviously MCU would not and can do these stories without having to water them down or turn them into comedy like Ragnarok, so some of their fans are now saying, they have no desire to see this stories as done in the comics is unfair, and this ,[B] actually disenfranchising many xmen fans, [/B]who would have no problem and would want to see these stories, some can try and spin this any how they want but in the end, what this is really about is trying to justify dumbed down X-MEN movies from the MCU and that is not fair or right for the XMEN series

[QUOTE=Castle;5543760]X-Men and Avengers have nothing in common in concept and in the real world, they should not even share a universe because thy reason they both exist should not make much of sense in the same universe. this is the reason why the most common question asked about xmen now that people know more about Avengers, is...... [B]why do people fear the xmen and not avengers. [/B][/QUOTE]

But there is such an obvious answer though. X-Men/mutants are an entire race/species who are the next evolutionary stage and threaten to replace Homo Sapiens while Avengers are just Homo Sapien celebrities with powers.

Also, again, bigotry makes no sense. One just has to look at the hypocrisy of gun rights extremists regarding who should and shouldn't own guns to realize why many MCU flatscans would be cool with superpowered homo sapiens like the Avengers but not a completely different superpowered species like mutants.

[QUOTE=The tall man;5543764]The so called mutant metaphor will never and should never be taken seriously as long as marvel tries to push the idea that the likes of Emma, Rogue, Logan, Lorna, Kitty, etc... suffer more racism, bigotry, prejudice and oppression than the Blue Marvel, Sam Wilson or Luke Cage.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure most of the MCU X-Men will be played by POC. Even Emma can be played as a Nicki Minaj or American Naomi Campbell type. Just saying.