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[QUOTE=ZuLuLu;5647839]Again you said both shows were disliked and the data doesn't show that.
Ultimate (which you said was disliked) and TNAS (which you sited as generally loved) score is nearly the same with Ultimate actually rate slightly better in both polls, (85% - 83% and 7.2 to 7.0).
As for Marvel's Spider-Man while it scored lower than the rest, the majority still liked it which disprove your statement that it was disliked.
For someone asking for proof you are making a lot assertions without evidence. Where is the evidence that people who didn't like the show was due to the Spider-Family, I saw more complaints about Harry Osbone and Doc Oct, the animation style and Peter's personality than I saw about the Spider Family.
We may all have different feeling about the spider family but based on the views that the new Spider-Family cartoon (yes, aimed at toddlers) videos are generating on youtube I don't think Marvel will see it as a problem.[/QUOTE]
Again you take the lowest of non spider-fam and highest of spider-fam.This is not a good comparison.
And I agree with:-"Where is the evidence that people who didn't like the show was due to the Spider-Family, I saw more complaints about Harry Osbone and Doc Oct, the animation style and Peter's personality than I saw about the Spider Family."
That is why I used posts and videos and link specifically pointed at Spider-fam stuff.It's not as accurate as i would like it to be but it's the best we got.
Again my problem isn't the fam:-
1)It's there overuse in all media.It's a fun gimmick, not the norm.Most adaptation should be just Spider-man, spider-fam should be the exception.
2)Having all these Spidey's in 616 doesn't work and also goes against multiversal nature of said gimmick.
I also agree that Marvel won't see it as a problem but it is for anyone slightly above casual fans.That's kinda my point.
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I don't know if your data is representative enough, though
And even if a bunch of people dislike it, older comics fans often dislike newer characters. I've seen a bunch of people complain about legacy characters without much reason. It doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648037]I don't know if your data is representative enough, though
And even if a bunch of people dislike it, older comics fans often dislike newer characters. I've seen a bunch of people complain about legacy characters without much reason. It doesn't mean it's a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
It's still the best we got though.
Bruh this is the problem.You can't invalidate an (popular)opinion by saying it's just bias when it's not.I have provided good arguments and proof while you have provided ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.All you do is dismiss valid arguments.
And this isn't about legacy characters.If you wanna make a Miles or Anya show go ahead, just don't jam them into Spider-man.
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5648115]It's still the best we got though.
Bruh this is the problem.You can't invalidate an (popular)opinion by saying it's just bias when it's not.I have provided good arguments and proof while you have provided ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.All you do is dismiss valid arguments.
And this isn't about legacy characters.If you wanna make a Miles or Anya show go ahead, just don't jam them into Spider-man.[/QUOTE]
The "best we got" isn't enough for you to act like it's some kind of objective proof. You keep asking for others' proof when you haven't provided enough yourself.
Your complaint boils down to people "taking away" from Peter Parker. i don't really see that as much of a problem.
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[QUOTE=ZuLuLu;5647839]Again you said both shows were disliked and the data doesn't show that.
Ultimate (which you said was disliked) and TNAS (which you sited as generally loved) score is nearly the same with Ultimate actually rate slightly better in both polls, (85% - 83% and 7.2 to 7.0).
As for Marvel's Spider-Man while it scored lower than the rest, the majority still liked it which disprove your statement that it was disliked.
For someone asking for proof you are making a lot assertions without evidence. Where is the evidence that people who didn't like the show was due to the Spider-Family, I saw more complaints about Harry Osbone and Doc Oct, the animation style and Peter's personality than I saw about the Spider Family.
We may all have different feeling about the spider family but based on the views that the new Spider-Family cartoon (yes, aimed at toddlers) videos are generating on youtube I don't think Marvel will see it as a problem.[/QUOTE]
I might just be talking from my own perspective but I think the less than stellar utilization of the other Spiders in Marvel's Spider-Man was a pretty common complaint about the show.
I mean, how many times did they forget Miles existed or wrote the other Spiders out? And they barely ever developed any of them.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5648289]I might just be talking from my own perspective but I think the less than stellar utilization of the other Spiders in Marvel's Spider-Man was a pretty common complaint about the show.
I mean, how many times did they forget Miles existed or wrote the other Spiders out? And they barely ever developed any of them.[/QUOTE]
I think complaining about adaptations is fair, considering they don't always do justice to the source material. But it's not the same as saying the concept in the comics doesn't work.
And complaining about the other characters not being used seems to be the opposite of that
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648370]I think complaining about adaptations is fair, considering they don't always do justice to the source material. But it's not the same as saying the concept in the comics doesn't work.
And complaining about the other characters not being used seems to be the opposite of that[/QUOTE]
Well, in the comics they barely interact to begin with, so it feels like kind of a nonissue.
I mentioned them not being used as evidence for how difficult it is to incorporate these characters into a traditional Spider-Man narrative, although it was also just one of the general writing flaws of the show.
Although when they do tend to gather together it often isn't all that worth talking about in my opinion.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5648560]Well, in the comics they barely interact to begin with, so it feels like kind of a nonissue.
I mentioned them not being used as evidence for how difficult it is to incorporate these characters into a traditional Spider-Man narrative, although it was also just one of the general writing flaws of the show.
Although when they do tend to gather together it often isn't all that worth talking about in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
It could indicate difficulty, or just apathy towards the concept. Of course, I don't think altering the traditional Spider-Man narrative is necessarily a bad idea. Although, I don't watch these cartoons so I'm not sure how well they do these things. But I'm talking mainly about the comics
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648696]It could indicate difficulty, or just apathy towards the concept. Of course, I don't think altering the traditional Spider-Man narrative is necessarily a bad idea. Although, I don't watch these cartoons so I'm not sure how well they do these things. But I'm talking mainly about the comics[/QUOTE]
Well, as a fan of the traditional Spider-Man narrative it just didn't jive well with me (personally).
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5648871]Well, as a fan of the traditional Spider-Man narrative it just didn't jive well with me (personally).[/QUOTE]
I understand. I've become less of a fan of the traditional narrative because i think it's overdone and a bit cliche. I don't want to see Peter Parker stuck in the same place forever. And I don't think some of those old ideas work anymore
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648884]I understand. I've become less of a fan of the traditional narrative because i think it's overdone and a bit cliche. I don't want to see Peter Parker stuck in the same place forever. And I don't think some of those old ideas work anymore[/QUOTE]
Well, I think solo Spider works perfectly fine at the very least...
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5648902]Well, I think solo Spider works perfectly fine at the very least...[/QUOTE]
He works fine but I'm not bothered if he works with other heroes. I've never been into the whole "one man is an island" attitude, or that working with others somehow lessens him. But seeing him do the same thing forever isn't interesting to me.
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648916]He works fine but I'm not bothered if he works with other heroes. I've never been into the whole "one man is an island" attitude, or that working with others somehow lessens him. But seeing him do the same thing forever isn't interesting to me.[/QUOTE]
I think it depends on the extent of working with other heroes.
Like, I'm coming at it from the POV of a Spidey like [I]The Spectacular Spider-Man[/I] (the cartoon) where he was always able to stop the baddie and resolve the conflict on his own 99% of the time. And I enjoy that more than, say, the alternative.
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[QUOTE=Mik;5648199]The "best we got" isn't enough for you to act like it's some kind of objective proof. You keep asking for others' proof when you haven't provided enough yourself.
Your complaint boils down to people "taking away" from Peter Parker. i don't really see that as much of a problem.[/QUOTE]
Well it's better than nothing which is what you have,
Did you read anything bud, I just gave you plethora of reasons why it's bad and audience seems to agree.
Also adding to said reasons:
Spider-fam leads to cluttered stories and plot with no time for development for other Spiders undermining them while also undermining Peter and no positives.
I'm done with this.
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[QUOTE=Frontier;5648974]I think it depends on the extent of working with other heroes.
Like, I'm coming at it from the POV of a Spidey like [I]The Spectacular Spider-Man[/I] (the cartoon) where he was always able to stop the baddie and resolve the conflict on his own 99% of the time. And I enjoy that more than, say, the alternative.[/QUOTE]
All this.I'm not going further in the existing argument since I have provided a lot and haven't gotten anything remotely concrete.
Spidey's traditional stories are so much better and it shows.
Also the only defense I hear is "it's not that bad".Even if I agreed why would I want mediocre content when I can get better content at no extra cost.
Spider-fam leads to cluttered stories and plot with no time for development for other Spiders undermining them while also undermining Peter and no positives.
The alternative is having good stories that have time to breathe with developed side characters who have their place and a competent and comic accurate Spider-man portrayal.
Spidey has always been a bit of a loner in both civvies and in costume.That's a major aspect of him as a character and spider-fam trashes that in it's existence and also makes him less competent to make the others existence useful as compared to him rising up no matter how big the problems are and figuring his way out which is the essence of his character.
Team ups are different than spider-fam.It's not a teen titans show.
Also people like Milk treat people who want good for Spidey as a bad thing.Like it's a spider-man show, of course I care about him.
