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[QUOTE=mathew101281;5150707]Agree with Flash but disagree with Batman. I’d argue Batman has found his best tone. That’s why he towers over all the other DC characters many of which have struggled to find a consistent tone that works for them. Batman at his core is a pulp detective character. He’s had lighter turns as a character (mostly the silver age ), but I’d argue he’s had his greatest success as a dark character.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Batman is David Fincher while Flash is James Gunn/Sam Raimi/Taika Waititi. DC needs to allow different solo properties to have different tones. Tones should align with the lead's personality as well as the nature of their threats. Some properties fall apart if no one applies humor to the concepts.
In a book like Justice League, reconciling the different tones isn't too hard either. You can show how humorous elements (Flash doing TV commercials) bump into serious elements (the League role and credibility in the political arena).
[video=youtube;8FcMKi1znkU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FcMKi1znkU[/video]
Would love to see a Jimmy Palmiotti Flash book. I think the JLU episode Flash and Substance laid out a pretty good blueprint for the general tone of The Flash with some serious Reverse Flash stuff thrown in every once in a while. He can also deal with threats that aren't Rogue-related (like delivering organs to the needy or doing more charity work), get into friendships with villains to try to make them better people, etc.
There has to be someone out there who can play up and reconcile these elements of The Flash into a single character:
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/55/c8/9a55c8f59d48fa8be76026cffade2282.jpg[/img]
[img]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/4/46646/7553311-9422517944-tumbl.jpg[/img]
[img]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/4/46646/7104576-2592066687-tumbl.jpg[/img]
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[QUOTE=Lightning Rider;5150455]I dislike that too, but it's not either/or. There's leaning into Wally's cocky/humorous side, and there's making him a juvenile comedic character. Not at all a fan of the latter, and I'd say most Flash fans probably aren't either.
And what are you saying "No" to?[/QUOTE]
"No," as in Flash wasn't given a sense of humor to be part of an ensemble but was given one to differentiate him from Superman. He was a guest character on STAS while the creative team was still against doing a Justice League show.
It permeated into most other adaptations:
[video=youtube;kaMeUSNORUs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaMeUSNORUs[/video]
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Both Barry and Wally have been given a sense of humor, and it's not always manic like Impulse's humor:
[video=youtube;aOq2YE3dLg8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOq2YE3dLg8[/video]
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I don't think anyone is saying The Flash can't make jokes or have humor, just that it doesn't need to be the core focus of the character. He doesn't need to be a comedian.
[QUOTE=king81992;5150451]DC is too uptight to put any members of the JL's Core 7 in a comedic comic. The Flash and Batman would both benefit from a lighter comic. Flash comics rely too much on the Speedforce(which isn't clearly defined) and Reverse Flash memes to [B]justify bad writing decisions.[/B] As for Batman, he and his entire franchise have become too grimdark for their own good.[/QUOTE]
What is the alternative? Just living with bad writing decisions made outside of those writers' hands?
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[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;5150333]
Reeeally dislike writers handling Flash as a bland, cardboard guy without a real sense of humor or personal flaws. [/QUOTE]
No one wants Flash to be depicted like that. But that doesn't mean he has to be depicted like his DCAU version. Wally had personal flaws without being really much like his DCAU self.
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[QUOTE=mathew101281;5150707]Agree with Flash but disagree with Batman. I’d argue Batman has found his best tone. That’s why he towers over all the other DC characters many of which have struggled to find a consistent tone that works for them. Batman at his core is a pulp detective character. He’s had lighter turns as a character (mostly the silver age ), but I’d argue he’s had his greatest success as a dark character.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Batman never dominated as much before he became a darker character.
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Don't agree. Batman has maybe made more money now, but I think Batman was always a good character with great visual story-telling and the humour made those comics better.
The comics in the 1970s and 1980s harvested from Will Eisner's Spirit, to flesh out their Batman. That was around when a lot of creators and fans rediscovered the Spirit (thanks to Jim Warren and Denis Kitchen). You can see the influence in Gerry Conway and Don Newton's work on Batman ('TEC 524 is virtually a parody of an Eisner story). The Spirit Sections had a lot of humour. They weren't always dark. And I think if you want to tell a dark tale, you need to be funny.
Look at a supposed dark movie like JOKER--that has a lot of humour--it might be black comedy, but it nevertheless has a sardonic perspective that brightens the movie. Without comedy, any dark story is like watching paint dry, in a poorly lit room.
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Honestly, there is no reason why it couldn't be...... given the right writer.
That said, I couldn't see that direction working with Barry - regardless of the writer, AT ALL.
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[QUOTE=Jim Kelly;5152548]Don't agree. Batman has maybe made more money now, but I think Batman was always a good character with great visual story-telling and the humour made those comics better.[/QUOTE]
I never said otherwise, Jim. My only point was that he has been more successful in recent years with the dark/gritty thing.
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[QUOTE=married guy;5152663]Honestly, there is no reason why it couldn't be...... given the right writer.
That said, I couldn't see that direction working with Barry - regardless of the writer, AT ALL.[/QUOTE]
Of course it could work. If Wally could obtain a successful makeover decades ago, so could Barry. It's not as if CB characters never deviate from the personalities they were created with. The real question is would it be more successful, which is doubtful, IMO.
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Wally didn't get a sudden makeover, though. That's kind of the thing with Wally. He gradually changed over years. Barry doesn't have that benefit as he mostly just serves to feed a status quo rather than because they wanted Barry Allen for Barry Allen's sake, by Didio's own word at that. What they did with Wally is antithetical to why Barry's back in the first place. They even did a immediate, giant makeover. Which I suppose is as popular as Barry is as few people reading the comic know or want who Barry used to be.
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[QUOTE=Dred;5152700]Wally didn't get a sudden makeover, though. [/QUOTE]
Sudden enough. Post-[I]COIE[/I] Wally wasn't really like pre-[I]COIE[/I] Wally at all.
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Baron Wally was pretty similar. He started changing with WML and then Waid had him grow up fully. There's a pretty clear maturation arc going on there.
I mean, the Wally Johns started with is very, very different from the Wally Baron wrote, wouldn't you agree?
I can't say Barry is very different, as a person, from who he was at the start of the New 52. Which is crazy considering how much they've folded the previous continuity back in to change so much else. The biggest change so far is just who is girlfriend is and what he knows rather than any major personality growth.
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[QUOTE=Dred;5152713]Baron Wally was pretty similar. He started changing with WML and then Waid had him grow up fully. There's a pretty clear maturation arc going on there.
I mean, the Wally Johns started with is very, very different from the Wally Baron wrote, wouldn't you agree?
I can't say Barry is very different, as a person, from who he was at the start of the New 52. Which is crazy considering how much they've folded the previous continuity back in to change so much else. The biggest change so far is just who is girlfriend is and what he knows rather than any major personality growth.[/QUOTE]
Barry seems way more depressed and melancholic than he was at the start of the New 52.
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My DC knowledge is mediocre as far as comic readers are concerned. Other than the Giffen JLI run have any DC heroes been given the Nextwave treatment?
