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He needed to care more about securing the secret of his identity (like not show his face to any other hero, or share his name), and needed to be far more competent in [I]Homecoming[/I], I'd appreciate him more if these problems weren't available in this world.
I don't care to watch more MCU after losing the best character and the second best one in this world, maybe I'll watch the [I]Asguardians of the Galaxy vol 3[/I], [I]Thor 4[/I], and possibly Black Widow prequel, these don't need Spider-Man so I'm not going to cry over the damage done.
As far as movie versions of the character stand, the [I]Maguire[/I] one is the most competent and responsible one, so he's definitely the best. His Peter needed to be more confident and outgoing than the overly shy guy he was to be a more faithful adaption.
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things i liked:
the Vulture
Mysterio
Tom Holland's look
Aunt May
his introduction in Civil War
things i didn't like:
Flash
the interference by Iron Man
Holland playing him much more like a kid
the lack of the Osborns and JJ
personally, Toby's Peter was the easiest to root for in (and i emphasize) the first movie. i liked how his Peter carried himself. he felt as if he had adult burdens that he had been carrying for a long time and didn't want. being Spider-man felt like a release. and i wanted him to have that release. Tom's version feels like his life would just be hunky dory if he gave up being Spider-man. he's not struggling against anything besides just being young. he's not an outcast because his school is designed to accomodate people like him. his aunt isn't struggling either. he's just less of an underdog all around. the diversity of the cast doesn't bother me. i just wish that they were acting more like the comic book characters; as outdated as those molds might be. you could have a jock of any ethnicity act like Flash does in the comics. instead they just made him someone who would be worthy of a swirly right alongside Peter. and Ned is named 'Ned' why? this certainly isn't a nod to long time readers. they made changes mostly where they weren't needed. but, like i said, i did like what they did with the Vulture.
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[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4525948]
personally, Toby's Peter was the easiest to root for in (and i emphasize) the first movie. i liked how his Peter carried himself. he felt as if he had adult burdens that he had been carrying for a long time and didn't want. being Spider-man felt like a release. and i wanted him to have that release. Tom's version feels like his life would just be hunky dory if he gave up being Spider-man. he's not struggling against anything besides just being young. [B]he's not an outcast because his school is designed to accommodate people like him.[/B] his aunt isn't struggling either. he's just less of an underdog all around.[B] the diversity of the cast doesn't bother me. i just wish that they were acting more like the comic book characters; as outdated as those molds might be. you could have a jock of any ethnicity act like Flash does in the comics. instead they just made him someone who would be worthy of a swirly right alongside Peter. and Ned is named 'Ned' why? this certainly isn't a nod to long time readers. they made changes mostly where they weren't needed. but, like i said, i did like what they did with the Vulture.[/B][/QUOTE]
You know this is something that bothered me as well...I hate to keep going back to this cartoon (but it is the first that I know of to diversify Spidey's cast) do wish they took the "Spectacular" approach and kept the core character intact when altering the ethnicity of the character. I also agree to you that having the school tailored to Peter specifically may not have been the way to go if we MUST see Spider-Man's school life. I have to say, that for all of the students having names (most from comics), I didn't even notice many of them were there.
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No, you are not the only one and it seems that you don't read a lot of posts on the MCU Spider-Man. Lots of people cannot stand the MCU version. Lots. I personally enjoy it but totally understand why some hate seeing Ironboy among other reasons. Not making fun of you but it seems to me you aren't paying close attention to other posters who hate the same version as you mentioned.
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I didn't care for the MCU version.
The first Marvel movie I didn't go to the theater to see.
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Look, guys, I'm not very happy with all the details from MCU's Spider-Man. I admit that; such as a MJ who is not Mary Jane. However, you should have an opened mind here.
MCU is a enormous creation, and Spider-Man became an important piece of it in the latest movies. From "Civil War" to "Endgame", Spider-Man's role in the MCU was clearly increasing. And after what happened in the ending of "Far from Home", with Mysterio blaming Spider-Man and revealing his secret identity, the left us with a cliffhanger never saw in a Spider-Man's movie. One that I, personally, I wished to see more than anything.
So... IN THE NAME OF STAN LEE'S HIMSELF!!! Somebody makes Sony and Disney reach any kind of deal again, even if they have to hit them with a baseball bat!!! Seriously, are they so dense?!! They are willing to ruin something that has given them thousnads of millions when they could take a lot of juice from this fruit? They are imbeciles!!!
This is like a Spider-Man's curse with the cliffhangers, leaving us with a lot of unsolved plots: 90's animated series, "The Spectacular Spider-Man", Sony's first trilogy, Sony's second unfinished trilogy.... Somebody stop them for making the same mistake again!!!
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Well, I guess ONE good thing that has certainly come out of the MCU losing Spidey to Sony is that more people seem willing to be HONEST about their dislike for the MCU version of Spidey.
Before, I had no idea that so many people felt I did, not really caring for the MCU version of Spider-Man, because I normally see so many people gushing over it and defending everything that was wrong with it that I kinda feel bad not liking it much. Especially since Spidey has always been my favorite superhero.
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I'd take another TASM over the MCU any day. I liked their interpretation of Peter and Gwen's relationship/love.
[QUOTE=Uncanny Mutie;4526443]Well, I guess ONE good thing that has certainly come out of the MCU losing Spidey to Sony is that more people seem willing to be HONEST about their dislike for the MCU version of Spidey.
Before, I had no idea that so many people felt I did, not really caring for the MCU version of Spider-Man, because I normally see so many people gushing over it and defending everything that was wrong with it that I kinda feel bad not liking it much. Especially since Spidey has always been my favorite superhero.[/QUOTE]
I know! I usually keep it to myself, but I feel like I can talk about it now. It was never so much that I couldn't say it, it's just that people love the MCU so why would I rain on their parade all the time?
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[QUOTE=Ursalink;4526433]Look, guys, I'm not very happy with all the details from MCU's Spider-Man. I admit that; such as a MJ who is not Mary Jane. However, you should have an opened mind here.
MCU is a enormous creation, and Spider-Man became an important piece of it in the latest movies. From "Civil War" to "Endgame", Spider-Man's role in the MCU was clearly increasing. And after what happened in the ending of "Far from Home", with Mysterio blaming Spider-Man and revealing his secret identity, the left us with a cliffhanger never saw in a Spider-Man's movie. One that I, personally, I wished to see more than anything.
So... IN THE NAME OF STAN LEE'S HIMSELF!!! Somebody makes Sony and Disney reach any kind of deal again, even if they have to hit them with a baseball bat!!! Seriously, are they so dense?!! They are willing to ruin something that has given them thousnads of millions when they could take a lot of juice from this fruit? They are imbeciles!!!
This is like a Spider-Man's curse with the cliffhangers, leaving us with a lot of unsolved plots: 90's animated series, "The Spectacular Spider-Man", Sony's first trilogy, Sony's second unfinished trilogy.... Somebody stop them for making the same mistake again!!![/QUOTE]
People can feel however they want about a movie franchise, its not the fans job to worry about how much a movie make or whether its better for the brand overall to stay in the MCU (and that is true)
Also, I didn't really like the cliffhanger. I didn't want Spidey's secret ID exposed because I prefer people not knowing and I think that plotline doesn't have legs for a third movie, anyway. That's like 20 mins of a movie tops. Somehow, everyone would have to forget or Peter would have to go underground. Not really compelling to me. Makes me think its more like a Cap movie or something
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[QUOTE=Revolutionary_Jack;4525632]My problems with the MCU is coeval to my problems with teenage Spider-Man because he went from being interesting and fresh for a short period (Bendis' USM, Weisman's Spectacular) to now being overpromoted as the default version at the expense of the actual best version of the character which is the adult version.
[B]Having said all that, I had high expectations when Spider-Man joined the MCU[/B]. To me Captain America Civil War was MCU Spider-Man's peak. Despite my issues with teenage Spider-man, it would be difficult and awkward to insert an older established Spider-Man into the MCU, so a teenage Peter was a good logical place to start, on paper at least. I loved the entire airport battle and I thought Spider-Man was awesome there.
Homecoming I liked overall. But everything with Tony Stark in that just grated on me there. The real issue was the producers churlishly retconning the Civil War fight to make Spider-man more of a clown then he actually was there. As Gail Simone pointed out on twitter, overall the movies seemed to have a tone of talking down to teenagers rather than listening or speaking to them...and that to me is not an accurate read of Generation Z which is what Tom Holland's Peter is supposed to be. I mean the Parkland kids showed far more courage and spark than he does. I was largely disappointed by Spider-Man's showing in Infinity War and Endgame because it just confirmed that Spider-Man was made into Caddy for Mister Stark and had become a diminished version of the character.
[b]I have broader issues with MCU namely that Tony Stark as a character does not deserve to be Spider-Man's mentor. This has to do with my feelings to the comics character, rather than RDJ's character. But even then RDJ played Tony Stark as a self-destructive mess of a character. That's how he was seen by most people who knew him. He's a f--k up. For Spider-Man to see the same character as some kind of Saint makes him out to be incredibly naive to say the least. We are never given any real in-character reason for why Peter thinks Tony Stark is something special. [/b]
On the whole, the MCU Peter is easily the least complex and most one-dimensional version of Peter, in live-action at least. A Batman movie can get away with the villain being more complex and interesting than the hero...but a Spider-Man movie where that happens, and happens twice with Vulture and Mysterio, is a failure in getting that character right.[/QUOTE]
We do have something to go on on why Peter looks up to Tony as much as he did. Back in Iron Man 2, when Whiplash’s drones attacked the Stark expo, Tony saved Peter’s life. He was the child wearing the Iron Man mask who was attacked by the drone. Not only does that show that he looked up to Tony from a young age but, put in the perspective of a child who was saved by their hero, it’s gonna create a sense of admiration. Now if Tony hadn’t been the face of the MCU, they could have easily turned it into a case of ‘never meet your heroes’ but they didn’t really want to trash Tony. What they did instead was a third option where Tony became a better person because of his relationship with Peter which I’d net as a positive.
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[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4526562]We do have something to go on on why Peter looks up to Tony as much as he did. Back in Iron Man 2, when Whiplash’s drones attacked the Stark expo, Tony saved Peter’s life. He was the child wearing the Iron Man mask who was attacked by the drone. Not only does that show that he looked up to Tony from a young age but, put in the perspective of a child who was saved by their hero, it’s gonna create a sense of admiration. Now if Tony hadn’t been the face of the MCU, they could have easily turned it into a case of ‘never meet your heroes’ but they didn’t really want to trash Tony. What they did instead was a third option where Tony became a better person because of his relationship with Peter which I’d net as a positive.[/QUOTE]
its a net positive for the MCU, not Spider-man.
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[QUOTE=Lazyking;4526573]its a net positive for the MCU, not Spider-man.[/QUOTE]
In the moment maybe, but Far From Home was about moving Peter out from under Tony’s shadow to become his own hero. Hell even to a lesser degree, Homecoming begins Peter’s development and showing who he is without Tony’s assistance, hence him losing the suit Tony made for him and having to rely only on himself to the point that they even paid homage to the iconic scene of Peter pushing himself to the limit lifting the rubble off of himself to save the day.
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[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;4526708]In the moment maybe, but Far From Home was about moving Peter out from under Tony’s shadow to become his own hero. Hell even to a lesser degree, Homecoming begins Peter’s development and showing who he is without Tony’s assistance, hence him losing the suit Tony made for him and [B]having to rely only on himself to the point that they even paid homage to the iconic scene of Peter pushing himself to the limit lifting the rubble off of himself to save the day.[/B][/QUOTE]
Which was devalued, in my opinion, by having Tony's motivational words in his head when he did it.
The sooner we can completely drop Stark from Spider-Man one way or another, the better in my opinion. Give him the MCU Uncle Ben treatment :p.
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[QUOTE=KangMiRae;4526456]I'd take another TASM over the MCU any day. I liked their interpretation of Peter and Gwen's relationship/love.[/QUOTE]
Why's that? (That was an element I really disliked about the movie.)
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[QUOTE=KangMiRae;4526456]I'd take another TASM over the MCU any day. I liked their interpretation of Peter and Gwen's relationship/love...[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more, on both counts. :cool:
