Everyone starts at full power. Who wins?
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Everyone starts at full power. Who wins?
No cell max Beerus Frieza or hit? Anyway Isn't gas supposed to be the biggest bad of DBZ or something? My god I just realized how lame the villains in super are.....
Ah yes Gas, a guy who is magically the strongest guy and has demonstrated his power so far by... erm... making some big swords and punching Vegeta a lot?
At least Moro was like, ambiently life-draining entire planets just by landing on them. There was some sense of epic scale there.
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;6092051]Ah yes Gas, a guy who is magically the strongest guy and has demonstrated his power so far by... erm... making some big swords and punching Vegeta a lot?
At least Moro was like, ambiently life-draining entire planets just by landing on them. There was some sense of epic scale there.[/QUOTE]
ultra ego vegeta?
Manga or anime versions of the characters that have both?
Which state does Moro start out in?
It basically has to be Gas for the moment.
He clowned Goku's level that clowned Jiren. He struggled but eventually beat Vegeta's UE form after explicit upgrades. He tanked a hakai.
Now, if Moro could drain his energy, but I don't see that happening before he's dead.
[QUOTE=choptop;6092072]ultra ego vegeta?[/QUOTE]
Yep, he crapped all over Ultra Ego Vegeta. That Ultra Ego thing is quite stupid I must say. He gets stronger with the more damage he takes, in the fight against Gas he basically burnt himself out.
That’s basically Vegeta’s role in Dragon Ball, to boast and get knocked out by a super villain until Goku finds a way to save the day.
Speaking of Goku, he’s basically got plot armor canonized with Bardock wishing that he should “thrive”. He pulled out another kind of UI to fight Gas with. Like how many variations of UI will Goku use? It’s a little silly at this point.
Moro can passively drain the energy of his opponents and, if I recall correctly, the reason Goku could fight him is because Ultra Instinct protected him from that. If the others don't have a form that can do that, they'll lose, probably even Gas.
I'm so confused at this point and have not been keeping up with the Manga at all.
Is Beerus still tougher than these guys or are GoDs finally obsolete lol
[QUOTE=The Arbiter;6092322]I'm so confused at this point and have not been keeping up with the Manga at all.
Is Beerus still tougher than these guys or are GoDs finally obsolete lol[/QUOTE]
Weeell... Jiren was above the level of a God of Destruction, right?
Moro seemed to be more hax and gave a Goku that surpassed Jiren a lot of problems and required him to use the finalised version of Ultra Instinct to beat - I think.
Broly required... SSB Gogeta...(?) to take him out which would likewise put him above Jiren and a God of Destruction. I have not seen the movie.
Gas is... *sighs* ... the strongest being in the Universe by inexplicably powerful Dragonball Magic and he required both Goku and Vegeta to make further iterations on their existing most powerful forms but beyond that has dick all feats in terms of doing stuff in the range of mountain busting, much less planetary or universal.
Once again, Dragonball not really having much in terms of useful feats outside of scaling.
Nik's stuff there is absolutely on point.
I'll add that Moro also got beaten by SSB Vegeta after a day of training on Yardrat where he learned both Instant Transmission and some energy-splitting thing. He used IT once then, for some reason, said "don't worry Kakarot, I'll never use 'your' technique again." Despite the obvious usefulness of the technique, and the supposed combat brilliance of Vegeta he won't use a technique that both he and Goku learned because... reasons. Moro came back using a cheat code because of course he did: only Goku and his kid are valid winners in DB-land.
Ultra Ego Vegeta after his latest Zenkai and upgrade was actually doing great against Gas, but then Gas showed that he could use IT on other people without touching them, and started using it to ragdoll Veggie. Again, something that a) Veggie sure could have used to great effect against Gas and b) Gas might have wanted to try on Sooper Dooper Ultra Instinct Goku since it was so trivial for him against Vegeta. Buuuuut... no.
[QUOTE=big_adventure;6092414]Nik's stuff there is absolutely on point.
I'll add that Moro also got beaten by SSB Vegeta after a day of training on Yardrat where he learned both Instant Transmission and some energy-splitting thing. He used IT once then, for some reason, said "don't worry Kakarot, I'll never use 'your' technique again." Despite the obvious usefulness of the technique, and the supposed combat brilliance of Vegeta he won't use a technique that both he and Goku learned because... reasons. Moro came back using a cheat code because of course he did: [B]only Goku and his kid are valid winners in DB-land.
[/B]
Ultra Ego Vegeta after his latest Zenkai and upgrade was actually doing great against Gas, but then Gas showed that he could use IT on other people without touching them, and started using it to ragdoll Veggie. Again, something that a) Veggie sure could have used to great effect against Gas and b) Gas might have wanted to try on Sooper Dooper Ultra Instinct Goku since it was so trivial for him against Vegeta. Buuuuut... no.[/QUOTE]
Basically this.
It's quite tiring at this point.
No one else..literally no one else is allowed to get big wins except Goku and Gohan in DB.
[QUOTE=big_adventure;6092146]He clowned Goku's level that clowned Jiren.[/quote]
No. In the manga Jiren was never clowned on, all he had to do was pump it to full power and completely matched PUI Gokus reactions long enough for it to run out(even then Goku couldn't even hurt him) Manga Pui Goku was not the powerhouse he was in the anime.
[QUOTE=Username taken;6092152]Yep, he crapped all over Ultra Ego Vegeta. That Ultra Ego thing is quite stupid I must say. He gets stronger with the more damage he takes, in the fight against Gas he basically burnt himself out.[/quote]
I think it more or less just turns him into something like Kenpachi from Bleach in terms of fighting.
[Quote]That’s basically Vegeta’s role in Dragon Ball, to boast and get knocked out by a super villain until Goku finds a way to save the day.[/quote]
It's been a team effort with pretty much every villain this far actually..
[Quote]Speaking of Goku, he’s basically got plot armor canonized with Bardock wishing that he should “thrive”. He pulled out another kind of UI to fight Gas with. Like how many variations of UI will Goku use? It’s a little silly at this point.[/QUOTE]
This isn't true, though I get it. The translation is a fan one and there are a few iterations of it. Suffice to say it doesn't give him plot armor, it was just to save Goku and Raditz from planet Vegetas destruction, that's all. Otherwise Raditz would still be alive.
[QUOTE=The Arbiter;6092322]I'm so confused at this point and have not been keeping up with the Manga at all.
Is Beerus still tougher than these guys or are GoDs finally obsolete lol[/QUOTE]
In the anime? Sure. Manga? Apparently not no, they are all(with the exception of Jiren and Broly) weaker than Beerus, apparently. Toyble clearly hasn't grown from being a fanfic writer
[QUOTE=Nik Hasta;6092356]Weeell... Jiren was above the level of a God of Destruction, right?[/quote]
Still is in both mediums yea
[QUOTE]Moro seemed to be more hax and gave a Goku that surpassed Jiren a lot of problems and required him to use the finalised version of Ultra Instinct to beat - I think.[/QUOTE]
Jiren has power, Moro had magic but was never as strong as Jiren.
[QUOTE]Broly required... SSB Gogeta...(?) to take him out which would likewise put him above Jiren and a God of Destruction. I have not seen the movie.[/QUOTE]
Just allegedly above Beerus. I'd still say Jiren is stronger as he was being alleged at that level while still holding back.
[Quote]Gas is... *sighs* ... the strongest being in the Universe by inexplicably powerful Dragonball Magic and he required both Goku and Vegeta to make further iterations on their existing most powerful forms but beyond that has dick all feats in terms of doing stuff in the range of mountain busting, much less planetary or universal.
Once again, Dragonball not really having much in terms of useful feats outside of scaling.[/QUOTE]
At least the anime had something on that level every saga either with Beerus and Champa throwing down, Zamasu encompassing the multiverse, or opening holes in space just with their physical attacks(not just in the Broly movie either, ToP had a few). It's the manga that has been a rather disappointing adaption.
Though to be fair, Moro blowing up was thought to be an event that would destroy the super dragonballs, and they are spread out across two sister universes so I suppose that suggests universal level energy there.
[QUOTE=big_adventure;6092414]Nik's stuff there is absolutely on point.
I'll add that Moro also got beaten by SSB Vegeta after a day of training on Yardrat where he learned both Instant Transmission and some energy-splitting thing. He used IT once then, for some reason, said "don't worry Kakarot, I'll never use 'your' technique again." Despite the obvious usefulness of the technique, and the supposed combat brilliance of Vegeta he won't use a technique that both he and Goku learned because... reasons.[/quote]
SSBE, actually. In the manga, if Vegeta has an aura while in a super god state, then it's BE. Since their Blue states aren't supposed to have auras anymore since they are preventing their ki from leaking in a more extreme way than their anime counterparts.
[Quote]Moro came back using a cheat code because of course he did: only Goku and his kid are valid winners in DB-land.[/quote]
Goku was about to lose had Vegeta not come back and punch out Moros power again near the end.
[Quote]Ultra Ego Vegeta after his latest Zenkai and upgrade was actually doing great against Gas, but then Gas showed that he could use IT on other people without touching them, and started using it to ragdoll Veggie. Again, something that a) Veggie sure could have used to great effect against Gas and b) Gas might have wanted to try on Sooper Dooper Ultra Instinct Goku since it was so trivial for him against Vegeta. Buuuuut... no.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. This saga has been the most poorly written yet, ao stupid and boring with the most idiotic reasons for the villains to be so strong that the implications for the entire series at this point are so many I don't have the time to list them, it's disgusting.
[QUOTE=Username taken;6092534]Basically this.
It's quite tiring at this point.
No one else..literally no one else is allowed to get big wins except Goku and Gohan in DB.[/QUOTE]
This is false. On all levels. Like, what? Pretty much every saga after FNF(and even then that required Vegeta intervention, then Whis intervention) has been a team effort. Black? Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Bulma and the omni King needed. Top? Frieza, Goku and 17 needed. Moro? Goku and Vegeta needed.
We haven't had a Goku finisher since Buu really(which was kind of a team effort too so I guess it hasn't been since Frieza since we had a legit Goku win)
[QUOTE=Cody;6092620]
This is false. On all levels. Like, what? Pretty much every saga after FNF(and even then that required Vegeta intervention, then Whis intervention) has been a team effort. Black? Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Bulma and the omni King needed. Top? Frieza, Goku and 17 needed. Moro? Goku and Vegeta needed.
We haven't had a Goku finisher since Buu really(which was kind of a team effort too so I guess it hasn't been since Frieza since we had a legit Goku win)[/QUOTE]
I think you are missing our point, Cody.
Obviously other people do some fighting, and even have positive effects, but Goku (or Gohan, for Cell and likely Super Hero) gets the kill shot after everyone else fails.
Yes, Vegeta distracts Cell, yes he does the power-split thing again on Moro, Frieza helps with taking out Jiren in the ToP (17 just happened to be left over, he wasn't effective in battle there), etc.
But just letting Vegeta (or anyone else) get a win simply doesn't happen. Goku beat Frieza. Gohan beat Cell, who beat the androids. Goku beats Buu using a technique that only he knows. Goku fights Beerus off. Goku sweeps in to save the world from Vegeta's stupidity thanks to Whis giving him the chance. Goku does the majority of the heavy lifting on Jiren, damaging him enough for the vastly weakend pair of Frieza and Goku to be able to knock him off the platform. Goku KO's Moro.
[QUOTE=Cody;6092620]No. In the manga Jiren was never clowned on, all he had to do was pump it to full power and completely matched PUI Gokus reactions long enough for it to run out(even then Goku couldn't even hurt him) Manga Pui Goku was not the powerhouse he was in the anime.
I think it more or less just turns him into something like Kenpachi from Bleach in terms of fighting.
It's been a team effort with pretty much every villain this far actually..
This isn't true, though I get it. The translation is a fan one and there are a few iterations of it. Suffice to say it doesn't give him plot armor, it was just to save Goku and Raditz from planet Vegetas destruction, that's all. Otherwise Raditz would still be alive.
In the anime? Sure. Manga? Apparently not no, they are all(with the exception of Jiren and Broly) weaker than Beerus, apparently. Toyble clearly hasn't grown from being a fanfic writer
Still is in both mediums yea
Jiren has power, Moro had magic but was never as strong as Jiren.
Just allegedly above Beerus. I'd still say Jiren is stronger as he was being alleged at that level while still holding back.
At least the anime had something on that level every saga either with Beerus and Champa throwing down, Zamasu encompassing the multiverse, or opening holes in space just with their physical attacks(not just in the Broly movie either, ToP had a few). It's the manga that has been a rather disappointing adaption.
Though to be fair, Moro blowing up was thought to be an event that would destroy the super dragonballs, and they are spread out across two sister universes so I suppose that suggests universal level energy there.
SSBE, actually. In the manga, if Vegeta has an aura while in a super god state, then it's BE. Since their Blue states aren't supposed to have auras anymore since they are preventing their ki from leaking in a more extreme way than their anime counterparts.
Goku was about to lose had Vegeta not come back and punch out Moros power again near the end.
Agreed. This saga has been the most poorly written yet, ao stupid and boring with the most idiotic reasons for the villains to be so strong that the implications for the entire series at this point are so many I don't have the time to list them, it's disgusting.
This is false. On all levels. Like, what? Pretty much every saga after FNF(and even then that required Vegeta intervention, then Whis intervention) has been a team effort. Black? Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Bulma and the omni King needed. Top? Frieza, Goku and 17 needed. Moro? Goku and Vegeta needed.
We haven't had a Goku finisher since Buu really(which was kind of a team effort too so I guess it hasn't been since Frieza since we had a legit Goku win)[/QUOTE]
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Goku and Gohan solo'd the villains, just that it's almost always them giving the final blow.
After the carnage of the Cell games, it was Gohan that destroyed Cell (and will likely do so again in the new movie).
In Resurrection "F", Vegeta had Frieza and could have provided the finisher but no, Whis reversed time and Goku finished off Frieza. Solo.
In the anime, Goku dropped Jiren with MUI and if not for his "speechifying" he would have eliminated him from the tournament. Granted his final elimination was a team effort but that was only because Goku was being an idiot.
Against Moro, Vegeta helped out with the spirit fission thing and eventually helped Goku with the power boost but it was Goku that ultimately destroyed Moro (and that's after Goku completely no-sold Moro when he went into PUI (or is it MUI, I've lost track).
Resurrection of F in particular was annoying because Vegeta should have been the one to kill Frieza given their history. Outside of those two, I don't think anyone else has provided the final blow against any major villain. Vegeta despite all his power-ups keeps getting his sh!t kicked in.