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[QUOTE=JasonTodd428;3359661]I do wonder how far past her Duke's connection will go as well. This whole Gotham By Daylight idea Patrick has going here is what intrigues me most about the book. I'm more used to Gotham By Night so it makes a nice change of pace to me. Seems like this book is going to take what is expected from a Bat book and turn it on its head and I'm a sucker for books that do that with any concept. Those have always been the types of books that I enjoy most.
Yeah, I wonder about his military career myself.
I'm not bothered by his abrupt appearance I'm just curious as to why he showed up now and not back then is all. I am looking forward to whatever insight into Duke's family history Jay can provide because it would help add more dimension to the character. A bit of world building on that front is needed I think.
I'm actually hoping that some of those kids do become allies of the Signal.[/QUOTE]
Based on that Podcast from the Appreciation Thread, it looks like Tony Patrick has loads more ideas where this issue comes from.
My guess if that he may have seeded some things beyond these 3 issues, so that if things go as planned and we get a spin-off or an extension into an on-going, he can really start playing with what he'd laid down, and lay down even more.
The teen villains and Ray seem to be prime examples of that.
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So folks, Tony Patrick answered one of my questions on Twitter and apparently, he really wants the Juvie Arkham character to be important even after the mini so... if we ever get another mine series or an ongoing, I guess we already have met some pretty important characters :) !
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[QUOTE=Korath;3373858]So folks, Tony Patrick answered one of my questions on Twitter and apparently, he really wants the Juvie Arkham character to be important even after the mini so... if we ever get another mine series or an ongoing, I guess we already have met some pretty important characters :) ![/QUOTE]
That's great.
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Okay haven't jumped in to talking about this issue yet, but I did like it. It wasn't "BAM POW" or anything, solid with a decent construction and execution but no supermassive HOLY WOW THIS IS THE THIS! moment. Cully's art is lovely though, and I like Duke's new costume more than anything else he has had. I like the connections and the stuff that has evolved from his build-up. I like that Izzy and Riko have parts. I like the villainous "mwahahaha welcome to your doom, not-quite-new hero" angle.
There's stuff I have gripes with. Not sure if they're nitpicks. I don't like that it's called "Batman and the Signal" because of the Bruce Dominance Effect in the title. I mean, I suppose Batman will be a continuous supporting major character in this title, and Duke is indeed one of his de facto sidekick boys. And the naming convention of "Big Character and the Team" is pretty prominent in the Rebirth era. But still ... We Are Robin didn't need it and neither did this. You could put "Bat" in the title without "Batman". Who knows.
Anyway, that is a nitpick. My actual big "huh?" comes from the fact that METAL isn't over with yet.
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[QUOTE=K. Jones;3374302] But still ... We Are Robin didn't need it [/QUOTE]
How did We Are Robin sell again? ;)
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[QUOTE=Assam;3374309]How did We Are Robin sell again? ;)[/QUOTE]
#1 had almost 52k, dropped to 31K at #2, and hovered between 17-20k for most of the run barring the Robin War crossover.
Wait. That was sarcasm. Ooops. :)
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[QUOTE=Assam;3374309]How did We Are Robin sell again? ;)[/QUOTE]
It was a diverse book in a market where there are entitlement fans who take issue with said books.
With a lead view as the killer of the Batman franchise to some.
It was lucky to make 12 issues.
The book was needed. However the whole Alfred putting kids in danger was not.
[QUOTE] I don't like that it's called "Batman and the Signal" because of the Bruce Dominance Effect in the title. [/QUOTE]
Well as MANY will point out to the entitlement fans and those who constantly attack POC with "why can't (blank) go by their own name?" claim.
NO matter how good the book might be-entitlement fans and especially comic book store owners ignore them.
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[QUOTE=K. Jones;3374302] I don't like that it's called "Batman and the Signal" because of the Bruce Dominance Effect in the title. I mean, I suppose Batman will be a continuous supporting major character in this title, and Duke is indeed one of his de facto sidekick boys. And the naming convention of "Big Character and the Team" is pretty prominent in the Rebirth era. But still ... We Are Robin didn't need it and neither did this. You could put "Bat" in the title without "Batman". Who knows.
[/QUOTE]
"Batman and Robin" existed before "We are Robin". And the first Robin solo title came out decades after the character was first introduced. Robin is recognizably attached to Batman, "Signal" is not. Robin was meant to be a partner to Batman so could get away with being in the main Batman book or in the Detective Comics without a separate title, but Signal isn't meant to be regular day to day partner for Batman (he is not a Robin replacement), so putting him in Batman or Detective comics for a decade won't work, and launching him on his own is like hoping the character will have the hardest entry possible in order to fail. Totally unfair considering how much support the main Batman titles gave the Robin character before Robin could work on it's own.
Batman and The Signal is perfectly reasonable to give the best chance to find an audience and be given a fighting chance without taking over from other batfamily characters in the other books.
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[QUOTE=skyvolt2000;3374420]It was a diverse book in a market where there are entitlement fans who take issue with said books.
With a lead view as the killer of the Batman franchise to some.
It was lucky to make 12 issues.
The book was needed. However the whole Alfred putting kids in danger was not.
Well as MANY will point out to the entitlement fans and those who constantly attack POC with "why can't (blank) go by their own name?" claim.
NO matter how good the book might be-entitlement fans and especially comic book store owners ignore them.[/QUOTE]
Ok lets not deny the fact that if you look at the cover from a distance Batman in the title is what gets the most attention and then you go closer it has the Metal tag on it despite not really being a Metal tieinn or an actual Batman book. Then there's the fact that Signal has built up to be "better than Robin, doesn't need Batman etc" and yet the title card sticks him in Robin's position and makes him dependent on Batman. Its DC's own decisions that have created this entitlement you speak of. I personally find it funny but its easy to see why it can be annoying for others.
The marketing for this book has given it a massively artificial boost and I guess yeah some fans are going to feel that DC could have done the same for any other character. Its natural to think that way.
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So, I've done my second readthrough of this issue (after doing a readthrough of We Are Robin), and I am really disappointed, yet again. Hamner's art is bold, but not nearly as appealing as it was in his collabs with Rucka on the Question. Patrick seems to have inherited the obsession Lee Bermejo had in We Are Robin with giving Duke really, really annoying and long winded narration. He's also picked up Snyder's recent obsession with unnecessary timejumps. So this story is unnecessarily confusing and stuffed to the brim with incredibly boring exposition about powers that don't make any sense. And I know this mini is supposed to be explaining his powers (as well as retconning Duke getting his name from the Joker), but the only thing I really liked was seeing Riko again, and it wasn't even good. Just her being "I'm jealous of you Duke, because the writers can't figure out what to do with the Robin kids other than make them normal again."
The cyborg cop-mom was interesting, and the scene with Jim Gordon and her setting up the evil meta army project thing wasn't too bad, but it's so frustratingly unnecessary, especially since Patrick doesn't seem to be able to do more than just standard faux-quippyness to characterize people. The voices are so stuffed up with exposition it's incredibly hard to get a sense for who anyone is.
All in all, I can't believe there are two more of these.
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[QUOTE=Korath;3373858]So folks, Tony Patrick answered one of my questions on Twitter and apparently, he really wants the Juvie Arkham character to be important even after the mini so... if we ever get another mine series or an ongoing, I guess we already have met some pretty important characters :) ![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=JasonTodd428;3373973]That's great.[/QUOTE]
Same. It's not surprising either. The Arkham Juvie kids are pretty unique and ripe with storytelling potential that goes into who they are and how they got to the points they are at in the book, so to see the writer holds value in them makes sense.
[QUOTE=K Nikk;3374518]"Batman and Robin" existed before "We are Robin". And the first Robin solo title came out decades after the character was first introduced. Robin is recognizably attached to Batman, "Signal" is not. Robin was meant to be a partner to Batman so could get away with being in the main Batman book or in the Detective Comics without a separate title, but Signal isn't meant to be regular day to day partner for Batman (he is not a Robin replacement), so putting him in Batman or Detective comics for a decade won't work, and launching him on his own is like hoping the character will have the hardest entry possible in order to fail. Totally unfair considering how much support the main Batman titles gave the Robin character before Robin could work on it's own.
Batman and The Signal is perfectly reasonable to give the best chance to find an audience and be given a fighting chance without taking over from other batfamily characters in the other books.[/QUOTE]
This to infinity and beyond. Batman in the books name is nothing more than good, savvy marketing and brand recognition, and that's not a bad thing in and of itself, nor is it the first time it's been done.
[QUOTE=millernumber1;3374632]So, I've done my second readthrough of this issue (after doing a readthrough of We Are Robin), and I am really disappointed, yet again. Hamner's art is bold, but not nearly as appealing as it was in his collabs with Rucka on the Question. Patrick seems to have inherited the obsession Lee Bermejo had in We Are Robin with giving Duke really, really annoying and long winded narration. He's also picked up Snyder's recent obsession with unnecessary timejumps. So this story is unnecessarily confusing and stuffed to the brim with incredibly boring exposition about powers that don't make any sense. And I know this mini is supposed to be explaining his powers (as well as retconning Duke getting his name from the Joker), but the only thing I really liked was seeing Riko again, and it wasn't even good. Just her being "I'm jealous of you Duke, because the writers can't figure out what to do with the Robin kids other than make them normal again."
The cyborg cop-mom was interesting, and the scene with Jim Gordon and her setting up the evil meta army project thing wasn't too bad, but it's so frustratingly unnecessary, especially since Patrick doesn't seem to be able to do more than just standard faux-quippyness to characterize people. The voices are so stuffed up with exposition it's incredibly hard to get a sense for who anyone is.
All in all, I can't believe there are two more of these.[/QUOTE]
Ouch. I'm sorry to hear you didn't care for it. :(
I can't say I agree with your assessments (I either feel the opposite and love it, or don't feel it's a problem/nitpick worthy; not sure what you mean by "unnecessary time jumps" either), but I at least appreciate that it takes from the book as opposed to without.
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[URL="https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Signal-Scott-Snyder/dp/1401279678/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1516574747&sr=1-2&keywords=batman+and+signal"]https://www.amazon.com/Batman-Signal-Scott-Snyder/dp/1401279678/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1516574747&sr=1-2&keywords=batman+and+signal[/URL]
For those wondering and yes this can change between now and May 29th
Preorder for the TPB
[QUOTE]
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #258,724 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)
#768 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > DC
[B]#2693 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes
[/B]
#37723 in Books > Science Fiction & Fantasy
[/QUOTE]
There are more folks interested in reading this than reading the Cyborg trades.
The SAD part is among black lead hero books-this is the second for DC. Number one is Black Lightning trades (ALL of them).
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Since the miniseries is finished, and with an Outsiders arc in Detective on the horizon, I wanted to get you guy's thoughts on Batman and The Signal.
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I wasn't interested enougth to get past the first ten pages.
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[QUOTE=TheCape;3690568]I wasn't interested enougth to get past the first ten pages.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, sucks that you couldn't get into it. I read through and enjoyed what it was going for (I'm a big Duke fan so I really wanted to love it) but I feel like this being a 3 issue mini may have doomed it from the start. It feels like it's devoting a lot of time to build up then by the time the cool stuff starts to happen....series done. The miniseries felt like a pilot for a tv show but seeing as there is no follow up series, it leaves me kinda just wanting more than what I got.
