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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5967167]That's not fanart. That's an official piece that Marvel commissioned for the original Spider-Verse storyline by Gabriele Dell'otto. (It was a series of interlocking covers.)[/quote]
Yes, now compare how many apperances that we've had of Black Cat as compared to most of the Spiders in that art piece.Cat is more prominent than most of them
[quote]The rest of Marvel is irrelevant to this conversation. This is a conversation about Spider-Man/The Spider-Verse. I know the Tom Holland films make it look like Iron Man is important to Spider-Man, but he isn't.[/quote]
It isn't, you don't get to decide what counts and what doesn't.Same way you don't get to decide whether Black Cat counts or not
[quote]You're still using Black Cat as a shield. It's really quite gross. The fact that you can only name her, someone who isn't even a Spider, is kind of the problem, isn't it?
I've discussed the importance of an LGBT Spider for reasons of representation. Black Cat is not a spider. She is also not always a hero (which people want to see themselves as).[/quote]
No one's using her a shield, the fact you are invalidating a LGBTQ+ character just because of her name even though she is part of the franchise and bigger than most Spiders at that is what is disgusting.And 1610 Jessica?
LMFAO, she's an anti-hero at worst and the fact you think such a surface level understanding of morality matters in rep is laughable yet makes me understand your view-point more.
I'd love for Black Cat level rep for myself, yet you don't see me whining and invalidating characters to prove my point.You can acknowledge existing rep and ask for more instead of acting like it doesn't exist just because of a naive rule you yourself implemented.Black Cat is a far bigger character than most of the Spiders.
You're trolling or just deluded at this point and there's no point in continuing this conversation.
Have a good day
[quote][IMG]https://blacknerdproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SpiderG-5-B.jpg[/IMG]
He has an arc in this storyline, which is more than you can say for most characters in this event. Under no circumstance could I say that Insomniac Spider-Man isn't "prominent" in Spider-Geddon.[/QUOTE]
He doesn't have an ARC, he literally just realizes he's been lied to.Miles and Otto had prominence
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967206]Yes, now compare how many apperances that we've had of Black Cat as compared to most of the Spiders in that art piece.Cat is more prominent than most of them[/quote]
Doesn't matter. (See next response.)
It's also important for people to see themselves as the hero. And by your own admission, Black Cat isn't exactly a hero.
[quote]It isn't, you don't get to decide what counts and what doesn't.Same way you don't get to decide whether Black Cat counts or not[/quote]
The thread asks for a major LGBTQ Spider-Hero, which Black Cat most certainly is not. It's right there in the title.
[quote]No one's using her a shield, the fact you are invalidating a LGBTQ+ character just because of her name even though she is part of the franchise and bigger than most Spiders at that is what is disgusting.And 1610 Jessica?[/quote]
You in fact are using her as a shield to try to say "why does the Spider-franchise need more LGBTQ representation? It already has Black Cat!" Yes, the use of "Spider" in the name is absolutely essential. Look at Batwoman over at DC. There are more important characters out there. But the fact that she carries the "Bat" name means something. (And as already discussed, DC also has an LGBTQ Robin, an LGBTQ Superman, and an LGBTQ Aquaman.)
I've already discussed Ultimate Jessica Drew, a character who hasn't appeared in years, and is secondary to the 616 character of the same name. She also never headlined her own mini or ongoing comic.
This thread has also talked about the Spider-MJ from Exiles who appeared in a few issues and was killed rather unceremoniously.
[quote]LMFAO, she's an anti-hero at worst and the fact you think such a surface level understanding of morality matters in rep is laughable yet makes me understand your view-point more.
I'd love for Black Cat level rep for myself, yet you don't see me whining and invalidating characters to prove my point.You can acknowledge existing rep and ask for more instead of acting like it doesn't exist just because of a naive rule you yourself implemented.Black Cat is a far bigger character than most of the Spiders.
You're trolling or just deluded at this point and there's no point in continuing this conversation.
Have a good day[/quote]
I can see you don't understand the importance of imagery and branding if you do not understand the importance of a prominent LGBTQ character using the Spider moniker.
The concept of the Spider-Verse is only going to continue. There is already one animated movie focused on the concept, with a second on the way and a third in the works. There has been a live-action film based around the concept. There have been video games based around the concept. There have been multi-part storylines in animated series around the concept. It's important to address this issue.
[quote]He doesn't have an ARC, he literally just realizes he's been lied to.Miles and Otto had prominence[/QUOTE]
(I mentioned his prominence in the story, not whether he's the lead character. Those can and often are different things. And this part is off-topic.)
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Gotta ask... Who would a spider Otto be bi/pan for? If some wise guy says Norman Osborn please go back to horny Tumblr jail.
I do think it would be nice to bring Jessica back, but at the same time, I don't think it'd be too much for one character to be LGBT+. Cindy Moon would be the same person if she had a crush on Black Cat and hooked up with someone. Same if Kaine had a crush on anyone. If literally any Spider works, Steel Spider exists and what's wrong with letting Oliver hook up with someone?
I think a problem with Spider-Man, as opposed to Superman is that Marvel can't even decide whether or not he should marry, let alone have children with MJ. Mayday could still have her crush on Normie but think women are cute too. And, cash-ins on recent movies notwithstanding, he works less with Spider teams than Batman, an "eternal loner", works with his family.
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[QUOTE=Lunala;5967282]Gotta ask... Who would a spider Otto be bi/pan for? If some wise guy says Norman Osborn please go back to horny Tumblr jail.
I do think it would be nice to bring Jessica back, but at the same time, I don't think it'd be too much for one character to be LGBT+. Cindy Moon would be the same person if she had a crush on Black Cat and hooked up with someone. Same if Kaine had a crush on anyone. If literally any Spider works, Steel Spider exists and what's wrong with letting Oliver hook up with someone?
I think a problem with Spider-Man, as opposed to Superman is that Marvel can't even decide whether or not he should marry, let alone have children with MJ. Mayday could still have her crush on Normie but think women are cute too. And, cash-ins on recent movies notwithstanding, he works less with Spider teams than Batman, an "eternal loner", works with his family.[/QUOTE]
That seems cool
I think Cindy would be a good option w/ Luna(?), but not w/ Black Cat.
Miles could be cool, so could Gwen
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[QUOTE=Lunala;5967282]Gotta ask... Who would a spider Otto be bi/pan for? If some wise guy says Norman Osborn please go back to horny Tumblr jail.
I do think it would be nice to bring Jessica back, but at the same time, I don't think it'd be too much for one character to be LGBT+. Cindy Moon would be the same person if she had a crush on Black Cat and hooked up with someone. Same if Kaine had a crush on anyone. If literally any Spider works, Steel Spider exists and what's wrong with letting Oliver hook up with someone?
I think a problem with Spider-Man, as opposed to Superman is that Marvel can't even decide whether or not he should marry, let alone have children with MJ. Mayday could still have her crush on Normie but think women are cute too. And, cash-ins on recent movies notwithstanding, he works less with Spider teams than Batman, an "eternal loner", works with his family.[/QUOTE]
Any of these choices to reveal as LGBT sound like good choices.
(When's the last time we saw Steel Spider? Was it the Ellis Thunderbolts run? I think Steve Rogers was trying to get him out of prison at the start of the Heroic Age. I know he got used in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and the 2017 animated series as well.)
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[QUOTE=Mister Mets;5966641] The developments about Tim Drake and Jonathan Kent being bisexual have occurred in the last year. [/QUOTE]
Well, Tim being Bi-sexual makes some sense. I mean, he was a bit more cut up over Connor's death than one would be for a friend. Jon came out of nowhere though (really wish they had made him Pan Sexual instead, but that's me).
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967291]That seems cool
I think Cindy would be a good option w/ Luna(?), but not w/ Black Cat.
Miles could be cool, so could Gwen[/QUOTE]
Thank you!
I do agree that after everything that went down between them, I wouldn't want Silk with Felicia without a proper arc and [I]very good[/I] writing. However, I'd argue the two have potential if Black cat is portrayed as her usual self, and my desire for Hardy to move on from Spider-Man is partially driven by my annoyance towards those dismissing her as a Selina Kyle expy. Too many beautiful women are pining for Peter for my liking. But an unrequited passing fancy at least would be fantastic.
With Seol and Miles, I run into the problem where I'm very hesitant to break them up with their minority heterosexual love interests. A way of working around that, would be if Miles nervously brought up an infatuation with a male classmate he had when he was younger to Tiana(who could mention she had a crush on a female, causing the two to share a laugh over the revelation) and Cindy could easily have affection for Luna she's happy to keep quiet with respect to what Hee shares with Amadeus.
With Gwen... She's a hard one. I don't know who I'd pair her with? MJ is bisexual in her universe but she and Glory Grant are a couple. Maybe... Since I was just discussing her, Cindy? They're from alternative Earths and I'm not exactly sold on the duo but there's nothing making a relationship between them impossible as long as they don't have the same hang up as Silk and 616 Peter. That was... a problem I'd like not to have existed.
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[QUOTE=Kevinroc;5967306]Any of these choices to reveal as LGBT sound like good choices.
(When's the last time we saw Steel Spider? Was it the Ellis Thunderbolts run? I think Steve Rogers was trying to get him out of prison at the start of the Heroic Age. I know he got used in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and the 2017 animated series as well.)[/QUOTE]
Thanks! Yeah... Comics are great at coming up with new character directions and rarely touching them. We don't know if Steve got him him out, but, considering how he vouched Victoria Hand, I don't see what would've stopped him. After what Gargan did to his arm, he'd also be an LGBT person with disabilities, and I believe these aspects of his life could offer the potential for interesting stories. From a pragmatic corporate standpoint, a character who has appeared in various media would be a great way of attracting interest to products that have lost the attention of larger audiences and maybe gaining some (undeserved) revenue.
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[QUOTE=Lunala;5967334]Thank you!
I do agree that after everything that went down between them, I wouldn't want Silk with Felicia without a proper arc and [I]very good[/I] writing. However, I'd argue the two have potential if Black cat is portrayed as her usual self, and my desire for Hardy to move on from Spider-Man is partially driven by my annoyance towards those dismissing her as a Selina Kyle expy. Too many beautiful women are pining for Peter for my liking. But an unrequited passing fancy at least would be fantastic.
With Seol and Miles, I run into the problem where I'm very hesitant to break them up with their minority heterosexual love interests. A way of working around that, would be if Miles nervously brought up an infatuation with a male classmate he had when he was younger to Tiana(who could mention she had a crush on a female, causing the two to share a laugh over the revelation) and Cindy could easily have affection for Luna she's happy to keep quiet with respect to what Hee shares with Amadeus.
With Gwen... She's a hard one. I don't know who I'd pair her with? MJ is bisexual inhercuniverse but she and Glory Grant are a couple. Maybe... Since I was just discussing her, Cindy? They're from alternative Earths and I'm not exactly sold on the duo but there's nothing making a relationship between them impossible as long as they don't have the same hang up as Silk and 616 Peter. That was... a problem I'd like not to have existed.[/QUOTE]
I think Felicia has moved on in that aspect, but people pining for Peter makes sense in universe w/ what we know of him.
I think Fel going a MC2 way works better
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967337]I think Felicia has moved on in that aspect, but people pining for Peter makes sense in universe w/ what we know of him.
I think Fel going a MC2 way works better[/QUOTE]
I'm asexual so I'm never going to get into that aspect of his life but I respect your opinion on it. I was a bit disappointed when the Beyond arc brought it back.
Flash is pretty different now than he was in MC2 so I'm curious how her life would go. Would they marry and if they were wedded, would the couple still break up? Would she ever meet Diana? Would they become an adorable poly couple? The daily bugle wants answers (and pictures of Spider-Man).
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[QUOTE=Lunala;5967346]I'm asexual so I'm never going to get into that aspect of his life but I respect your opinion on it. I was a bit disappointed when the Beyond arc brought it back.
Flash is pretty different now than he was in MC2 so I'm curious how her life would go. Would they marry and if they were wedded, would the couple still break up? Would she ever meet Diana? Would they become an adorable poly couple? The daily bugle wants answers (and pictures of Spider-Man).[/QUOTE]
Oh cool.I might be blanking but when did they Beyond arc bring it back? The one shot specified she wasn't pining for him anymore.
I think I'd just skip to Fel and Diana straight up.Flash happened and she moved on
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967360]Oh cool.I might be blanking but when did they Beyond arc bring it back? The one shot specified she wasn't pining for him anymore.
I think I'd just skip to Fel and Diana straight up.Flash happened and she moved on[/QUOTE]
Hm. I'd have to go back and read the issue myself but my interpretation of the panel with Queen was that her being an "awful" lover (and portraying Peter with her) is part of what brainwashed her into taking her own life.
Hm. I like stories with LGBT parents so I'd miss her daughter. Not as fond her son, but eh... That's how it is sometimes.
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[QUOTE=Lunala;5967413]Hm. I'd have to go back and read the issue myself but my interpretation of the panel with Queen was that her being an "awful" lover (and portraying Peter with her) is part of what brainwashed her into taking her own life.
Hm. I like stories with LGBT parents so I'd miss her daughter. Not as fond her son, but eh... That's how it is sometimes.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Fel will ever forget Peter or how important he is to her because that's what gave her the most important growth she had.When she lost those memories she went straight up super-villain and when she got them back she became a much better person.
I do think that's what it was, which tbf she was under the gaze and she has messed up a lot.I like them where they are rn though
Did Flash and Fel have kids in MC2? I blanked on that, maybe they could adopt in 616
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[QUOTE=Somecrazyaussie;5967329]Well, Tim being Bi-sexual makes some sense. I mean, he was a bit more cut up over Connor's death than one would be for a friend. Jon came out of nowhere though (really wish they had made him Pan Sexual instead, but that's me).[/QUOTE]
I think people forget that Conner's death was like the straw that broke the camel's back because it was right after he lost Steph and his dad. This came out when he was about to use a Lazarus Pit.
[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967430]I don't think Fel will ever forget Peter or how important he is to her because that's what gave her the most important growth she had.When she lost those memories she went straight up super-villain and when she got them back she became a much better person.
I do think that's what it was, which tbf she was under the gaze and she has messed up a lot.I like them where they are rn though
Did Flash and Fel have kids in MC2? I blanked on that, maybe they could adopt in 616[/QUOTE]
I think for Felicia Peter is basically like the love of her life that she realized she lost through her own choices and probably won't get back at this point.
They had a kid in MC2. She even tried to be Mayday's sidekick/partner if I remember right.
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[QUOTE=Spiderfan001;5967430]I don't think Fel will ever forget Peter or how important he is to her because that's what gave her the most important growth she had.When she lost those memories she went straight up super-villain and when she got them back she became a much better person.
I do think that's what it was, which tbf she was under the gaze and she has messed up a lot.I like them where they are rn though
Did Flash and Fel have kids in MC2? I blanked on that, maybe they could adopt in 616[/QUOTE]
They had two kids in MC2. Felicity, who tried to be Mayday's sidekick, and Gene, who May dated briefly (he was more like Flash was in the 1960s).
[url]https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Felicity_Hardy_(Earth-982)[/url]
[url]https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Eugene_Thompson,_Jr._(Earth-982)[/url]
