To those unhappy with the relaunch, how would you fix it?

[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4713806]The reason a lot of X-fans have gravitated towards (and the one that makes the most sense to me) is that at the end of the day the Avengers are government sanctioned law enforcement. They don't get involved with the X-Men getting annihilated in the same way they don't really care if the Maggia or AIM or Hydra or the Hand are going after one another (as long as civilians aren't in the cross fire). The X-Men are treated as worldwide criminals to most governments because of how ridiculous the anti-mutant sentiment got. And so the Avengers don't get involved to save them because there is no real motivation to do so. Helping them makes them look bad to the people they answer to at the end of the day.[/QUOTE]
Ok that's just no, honestly this sounds like a very bad post or some kind of really bad fanfic, it already ignores the fact the Avengers don't answer to the government, they don't let the government tell them what to do and they certainly don't care what the government thinks of them.
Especially when most of the core Avengers have their own problems with the government and have fought against them, I mean come on one of Captain America's most famous stories the original Secret Empire involves him abandoning his identity after becoming disillusioned with the government and before taking it back up and affirming being Captain America means he fights for the American Dream but not the American government.
The Avengers will work with the government but they certainly do not work for them, otherwise characters like USAgent or teams like the Dark Avengers wouldn't exist to begin with.

[QUOTE=Skullkid;4713899]
The Avengers will work with the government but they certainly do not work for them, otherwise characters like [B]USAgent[/B] or teams like the [B]Dark Avengers [/B]wouldn't exist to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Huh? Dude USAgent is pretty well known for his ties with the American government
And
The Dark Avengers were created and sanctioned by the government

[QUOTE=BroHomo;4713933]Huh? Dude USAgent is pretty well known for his ties with the American government
And
The Dark Avengers were created and sanctioned by the government[/QUOTE]

Uh yeah that's my point if the Avengers just worked for the government, and mindlessly obeyed and appeased them then characters like USAgent and the Dark Avengers wouldn't exist as the antagonistic government approved and sanctioned counterparts who are around specifically because the Avengers aren't at the whim of the government.

Someone missed the Harras/Epting U.N. sanctioned peace keeping force from the 90’s.

I’ll be honest, I haven’t read anything yet. I just bought the HoX/PoX, plus all of the ongoings, so I’m sure I’ll have a better informed opinion once that happens. Honestly though, the only thing I’d really change is some of the casts. Especially for X-Men, X-Force, and Excalibur. Especially Excalibur. Jettison everyone except Betsy and maybe Rictor. I’d add Dazzler, Ariel, the Black Knight, Chamber, Northstar and Aurora, and Madison Jeffries.

[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4713838]They're lumped with those groups as threats to the general population, whether fairly or not.

As far as the government goes, the Avengers don't usually go out looking for things to stop. Unless a 50-foot tall Celestial is walking down Broadway, more often than not a government entity asks them to respond to a super villain level threat.[/QUOTE]

I can understand the general population seeing the X-Men as a threat but we know the Avengers don’t feel that way (besides AvX)

The Avengers were only briefly under the thumb of the US government waaaaaaaaaaaay back in the day, but they've almost always been autonomous. I don't know where you would get that idea. Right now they've made a deliberate break with the US Government, who has gone on to form a (implied fake) Squadron Supreme of America to act as military super heroes.

At the moment they haven't had any interaction with the X-men. They're probably cautiously happy for them. A lot of them were on the Illuminati with Xavier, and know he's super sketchy. Not to mention having Apocalpyse and the like in charge would give them pause. But unless T'Challa is aware of something the readers don't know yet, they don't have any reason to be openly hostile to each other.

If that's the story you're looking for, I guess we need to just wait for Incoming.

[QUOTE=Wolverine12;4713804]I think often there is a minor explanation given, the usual reason being that whatever team isn't helping is "off world." Something like IvX was too big imo. There was, in story, massive media coverage, entire cities that had cocoon's everywhere and a huge super powered population explosion. The Avenger's took notice of the new powered beings, but nobody knew the T-Mists were not only killing but sterilizing the entire mutant population? That's a hard sell for me especially given that the X-Men have several former Avengers in their ranks. I'm almost certain that Stark and Richards were mentioned to be looking into a fix after most of the damage had been done but considering that you would think that they would do something to stop the bleeding (better than moving them to limbo anyway). I can understand you don't want the teams stepping on each other's toes, I'm buying an X-Men book after all, not an Avengers book, but a one shot or a two part story about Stark and Reed working on a fix or saving mutants seems like a quick buck to be made by Marvel.

I think the fact that the X-Men were going from one extinction crisis to the next for basically 10 straight years real time just highlighted the issue. The Avengers are heroes, there is no way they would stand by and watch a species die and the fans know that, so when the X-Men are always almost being wiped out it is just so weird that Cap isn't there cracking skulls next to Logan.

This is veering a bit opposite of the thread, but a big part of the reason I like what Hickman has done is that he took the X-Men out of that cycle of perpetual doom. This circles me back to my original post in this thread, now that the X-Men don't actually need the Avenger's help I'm curious to see how they react. I suppose one could argue that the X-Men never needed the Avengers since they are capable heroes themselves, but I think during Decimation and IvX it felt like they needed some help.[/QUOTE]

When it comes to IvX they gave some really...half-assed explanations and excuses...
Like Dr. Strange and a bunch of other mages helped shunt the entire Jean Grey school into Limbo but when asked why they didn't help with the mists "Its complicated with the Inhumans"
And then we had stupid stuff like Bruce Banner trying to fix the cloud problem and it somehow being alive and making his Gamma levels go insane (which lead to Totally Awesome Hulk)
Since apparently whenever a good guy tried to help with the T-cloud is was "too complicated" or some stupid deus ex machina reason jumped out to stop them...
But when villains like the Right were literally vacuuming up pieces of the cloud to make into Anti-Mutant weapons, not only did it happen without a hitch but no one seemed to care to stop them.

As for more of what I would do to fix things...
Like I said earlier, first ditch Hickman's weird retcons and essentially all of PoX. Keep Krakoa as the new home of mutants but go back to the tamed Krakoa and not whatever nonsense Hickman is cooking up with it being some magic island Apocalypse used to live on or whatever. The gateways are an interesting thing to play with but I'd add a little to have it maybe be that no one can find Krakoa unless the X-men allow it. Boot all the villains off the island and get rid of this culty vibe going on. Have characters skeptical of the whole deal, have them react naturally and not just everyone instantly okay with everything but still working on making it work. Change Maurauders into X-Factor, keep a similar mission but get rid of Shadowcat. Replace New Mutants with New X-men and have it focus on the younger crowd entirely along with their lives on Krakoa and how they're preparing to deal with the new future. And definitely change the writer to someone that's actually good. Excalibur could use a roster change, and maybe expand beyond just 'magical' adventures to have it be the book that focuses on alien and magical threats to mutant-kind. Fallen Angels is a stealth solo right now so shifting it to an actual team book would work. Have it be about characters that just straight up refuse to stay on Krakoa or aren't welcome instead of people sneaking off the island every mission.

I would launch a new book about a team of b-list villains with Nanny and the Orphan Maker.

Probably re-hash the same ole stories we've been getting for the past 20+ years because ah, its so exciting...

[QUOTE=scourge;4714645]When it comes to IvX they gave some really...half-assed explanations and excuses...
Like Dr. Strange and a bunch of other mages helped shunt the entire Jean Grey school into Limbo but when asked why they didn't help with the mists "Its complicated with the Inhumans"
And then we had stupid stuff like Bruce Banner trying to fix the cloud problem and it somehow being alive and making his Gamma levels go insane (which lead to Totally Awesome Hulk)
Since apparently whenever a good guy tried to help with the T-cloud is was "too complicated" or some stupid deus ex machina reason jumped out to stop them...
But when villains like the Right were literally vacuuming up pieces of the cloud to make into Anti-Mutant weapons, not only did it happen without a hitch but no one seemed to care to stop them.
[/QUOTE]

So bad writing, gotcha. Still, its better than just ignoring it.

[QUOTE=Mr Cochese;4714710]I would launch a new book about a team of b-list villains with Nanny and the Orphan Maker.[/QUOTE]

I concur, this is the way forward.

[QUOTE=Mr Cochese;4714710]I would launch a new book about a team of b-list villains with Nanny and the Orphan Maker.[/QUOTE]

Where’d I leave my O6 MLF pitch?

Get Hickman a script writer and an editor

[QUOTE=PsychoEFrost;4713806]The reason a lot of X-fans have gravitated towards (and the one that makes the most sense to me) is that at the end of the day the Avengers are government sanctioned law enforcement. They don't get involved with the X-Men getting annihilated in the same way they don't really care if the Maggia or AIM or Hydra or the Hand are going after one another (as long as civilians aren't in the cross fire). The X-Men are treated as worldwide criminals to most governments because of how ridiculous the anti-mutant sentiment got. And so the Avengers don't get involved to save them because there is no real motivation to do so. Helping them makes them look bad to the people they answer to at the end of the day.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Obviously the actual "meta" reason is just absence of tight editorial controls across the various franchises, simple oversights and people not considering it might "look bad" for X-fans when other supposedly heroic teams do nothing or almost nothing to help them out. But yes, your explanation is great in-universe, and it fits the entire idea Claremont created of X-Men as different from the other standard superhero teams, they're more a collection of individuals, and regarded quite frequently with suspicion and hostility by the public at large AND the powers that be, which does make them appear at least superficially akin to villains.