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[QUOTE=Sutekh;4779844]I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend [i]our[/i] power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.
Even if that characterization isn't true of many of us, or even most of us, it's a *perception* that exists, and seems to perniciously affect how many (read: few, or none) powerful and significant black, Asian or Latino (or even Native American) *men* there created and used as X-Men, Justice League, Avengers, etc. And when it does get turned on it's head, say, with Stormwatch, a team led by Battalion, a pretty awesome and powerful black man, that team gets replaced by a bunch of white peeps, as the Authority, which sells a heck of a lot better, unfortunately.
** (And that's part of the delusion that needs to die, that comic books are [i]ours.[/i] Unfortunately, it's catered so long to us, that's all it knows, and it's an uphill slog for marketing departments with no freaking clue how to attract the attention of potential customers who are not us white dudes to a product that, historically, has not been for them... And so they give it a stumbling half-hearted tone-deaf try, fail to get the sales numbers they want, throw their hands up and claim that they tried, and it's not their fault that 'fans wouldn't buy it.')[/QUOTE]
Bravo! You're spot on with your observations. Extra points for being a white brotha that speak to this dynamic so insightfully. Needless to say its laughable that in 2020 fantasy has so many real world racial issues shot all throughout it. Btw that Stormwatch series pulled me from Marvel and DC. Right up to when they yanked Battalion and made the book just like the other 2 companies product.
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[QUOTE=davetvs;4778989]I totally agree with this post but honestly, The X-Men (and Marvel as a whole) would need more black writers to properly pull that off and that is the crux of the issue.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]That's it in a nutshell. More diverse writers equal more opportunities to have diverse characters. Not saying the default white writer can't do it but it they tend not to push hard or stick with the characters for long, especially when they are male.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;4779844]I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend [i]our[/i] power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.
Even if that characterization isn't true of many of us, or even most of us, it's a *perception* that exists, and seems to perniciously affect how many (read: few, or none) powerful and significant black, Asian or Latino (or even Native American) *men* there created and used as X-Men, Justice League, Avengers, etc. And when it does get turned on it's head, say, with Stormwatch, a team led by Battalion, a pretty awesome and powerful black man, that team gets replaced by a bunch of white peeps, as the Authority, which sells a heck of a lot better, unfortunately.
** (And that's part of the delusion that needs to die, that comic books are [i]ours.[/i] Unfortunately, it's catered so long to us, that's all it knows, and it's an uphill slog for marketing departments with no freaking clue how to attract the attention of potential customers who are not us white dudes to a product that, historically, has not been for them... And so they give it a stumbling half-hearted tone-deaf try, fail to get the sales numbers they want, throw their hands up and claim that they tried, and it's not their fault that 'fans wouldn't buy it.')[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CRaymond;4779880]Gonna double up on this. Well said.
Authority was brazen and brutal, but Stormwatch under Battalion had SO MUCH more style. It had a truly international cast![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=dkrook;4780153]Bravo! You're spot on with your observations. Extra points for being a white brotha that speak to this dynamic so insightfully. Needless to say its laughable that in 2020 fantasy has so many real world racial issues shot all throughout it. Btw that Stormwatch series pulled me from Marvel and DC. Right up to when they yanked Battalion and made the book just like the other 2 companies product.[/QUOTE]
Cosigning.
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Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....
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[QUOTE=yogaflame;4781186]Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....[/QUOTE]
And quite effectively, too.
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I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but calling Bishop black is putting a box for Americans to understand him. He is an Australian Aboriginal. You wanna talk about a group of persecuted people, previous government's literally tried to exterminate them and breed the black out through forced eugenics programs. The children were forcibly removed from their families and communities into religious institutions to educate them to force them into western culture. I hope someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread cause trust me, what was done the the indigenous societies of Australia is one of the worse crimes ever commited on "POC"s.
Be nice to see that addressed in comics instead of the boring crap we get now.
Be nice to see Bishops roots treated with some kind of respect.
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[QUOTE=yogaflame;4781186]Damn, looks like the OP question was answered....[/QUOTE]
There is some level happiness but caution is also involved
Bishop is in Marauders
Prodigy is X-factor AND repowered
Synch and Darwin have role at worse in the flagship book( I think they are going to show up in a book)
Sunspot is out in front in New Mutants
Bedlam and Triage are alive
But I have been a fan too long to get super excited. Let us met back 12-24 issues from now and see what real happens. I have seen enough quick hooks and characters treated like background ornaments and never developed to get too excited. But you can't be too critical at this stage because you can't catch on if you aren't being used and this is passing the first test. So let's see what happens from now on but from time this topic started to now there is actual progress forward so you have to commend that.
And as small note while this topic is about black males not catching on, I think should be noted that Daken is around now X-factor and Asians males have it just as bad or worse. It would be nice to Sunfire and Neal Shaara get a shot in something.
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[QUOTE=Sutekh;4779844]I think (as a cynical white dude) it's more about what white dudes are afraid of. Powerful dudes of color. We can safely objectify black or Asian or tina hotties as 'exotic beauties' to be tamed, but heaven forfend [i]our[/i] power-fantasies** include black or Asian or Latin *men* who might threaten our fragile and fading delusion that the world exists to cater to us, exclusively.
[/QUOTE]lol YUUUUP
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4781548]I dunno if anyone has mentioned this but calling Bishop black is putting a box for Americans to understand him. He is an Australian Aboriginal.[/QUOTE]Eh He's been black (American) in the 616 (future) world for a long time and was treated thusly. Not sure how Americans can understand him more....or misunderstood because his ethnicity got a little more refined.
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4781548]Be nice to see that addressed in comics instead of the boring crap we get now.[/QUOTE]
Bishop's past was addressed in a sh!tty AF mini. Not sure what you want the comics to address.....Bishop is a from waaaay into the future after the Aborigines faced their Genocide. Read Life and Times of Lucas Bishop....if you can
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4781548]Be nice to see Bishops roots treated with some kind of respect.[/QUOTE]
Eh see above. But tbh It kiiiiiinda feels like disrespect to take the most prominent black Xman and make it so there's an asterisk next to his blackness
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Editors aren't helping either. I'm no maggot fan but according to Leah she wanted to use Maggot in X-force but of course Jordan no time for a Storm interview despite being in the room put the boot down White. I seriously feel we all need to shoot off a damn letter to Feige and asks what his thoughts are. But at least the x-men overall are trying to do better, i shudder to think what the books would look like right now if there wasn't so much behind the scenes change.
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[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4781589]There is some level happiness but caution is also involved
Bishop is in Marauders
Prodigy is X-factor AND repowered
Synch and Darwin have role at worse in the flagship book( I think they are going to show up in a book)
Sunspot is out in front in New Mutants
Bedlam and Triage are alive
But I have been a fan too long to get super excited. Let us met back 12-24 issues from now and see what real happens. I have seen enough quick hooks and characters treated like background ornaments and never developed to get too excited. But you can't be too critical at this stage because you can't catch on if you aren't being used and this is passing the first test. So let's see what happens from now on but from time this topic started to now there is actual progress forward so you have to commend that.
And as small note while this topic is about black males not catching on, I think should be noted that Daken is around now X-factor and Asians males have it just as bad or worse. It would be nice to Sunfire and Neal Shaara get a shot in something.[/QUOTE]
[COLOR="#000080"]Exactly. Being in a book is one thing. Being used meaningfully and prominently is something else.
We have not had that for any Black male or any other poc males on a regular basis.[/COLOR]
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[QUOTE=BroHomo;4781715]lol YUUUUP
Eh He's been black (American) in the 616 (future) world for a long time and was treated thusly. Not sure how Americans can understand him more....or misunderstood because his ethnicity got a little more refined.
Bishop's past was addressed in a sh!tty AF mini. Not sure what you want the comics to address.....Bishop is a from waaaay into the future after the Aborigines faced their Genocide. Read Life and Times of Lucas Bishop....if you can
Eh see above. But tbh It kiiiiiinda feels like disrespect to take the most prominent black Xman and make it so there's an asterisk next to his blackness[/QUOTE]
So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground. I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on.
Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.
As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.
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[QUOTE=Nimrod;4785211]So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground. I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on.
Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.
As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this 100%
To forget history is...well...look what's happening now because of how much we forgot. It doesn't actually absolve what happened nor [I]solve[/I] the problem that's still perpetuated.
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[QUOTE=jwatson;4779576][B]None of the Solos announced so far in the X-line features a character of color. [/B]I'm sure that plays a part as well.[/QUOTE]
Why bother with pesky minorities when Cable can have his 30th failed solo.
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[QUOTE=Nimrod;4785211]So what your saying is skin colour out weighs cultural back ground. [/QUOTE]
Consisting He comes from a culture 1000 years from now Its likely I don't know his culture but hopefully a thousand years from now Aboriginals aren't as disenfranchised as today. And he left there when he was 3 years old and soon his parents died. He didn't have much of a chance to gain cultural habits but tbh his cultural background was never really beyond Black Cop from future not named Cable
So In Bishop's case Yeah.
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4785211] I have the mini your referring to. It's a shame it's not built on. [/QUOTE]
I guess I'm not getting what specifically you think should be built on? His cultural background? Yeah I'm down if you referring to the stuff in the mini.....
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4785211] Now since you wish to disrespect Aboriginal culture as a whole and trivialize their suffering as something they'd just get over, do some research. Understand their plight from a compassionate view rather than virtue signal.
[/QUOTE] Dude whhaaaat? Those 2 dudes from Crocodile Dundee? I Love them! Rabbit proof fence was a reeeeeeal eFFIN messed up movie...
but FRFR I emphasize hard with Aborigines no disrespect to their culture that was definitely not my intention+++ it's not even remotely implied
[QUOTE=Nimrod;4785211] As for prominate black x man with an * next to his name, so you would rather that the aboriginal people are never in a prominent in any media? What be silent and vanish? That is the exact attitude that led aboriginal being persecuted in a genocidal manner. Tasmania has no native aboriginals, whites exterminated all of them. ALL OF THEM. Trust me, the scars of genocide last of hundreds of years, so please don't trivialize an entire races suffering because you want to fill a quota.[/QUOTE] I've been High before but the leaps you're taking as you jump to all these conclusions must be stratospheric
[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4785241]I agree with this 100%
To forget history is...well...look what's happening now because of how much we forgot. It doesn't actually absolve what happened nor [I]solve[/I] the problem that's still perpetuated.[/QUOTE] What history have I forgotten? lol
[QUOTE=Silver Fang;4785361]Why bother with pesky minorities when Cable can have his 30th failed solo.[/QUOTE] I wanna know tons more about him Beast and Deadpool
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Bishop’s Aborigine heritage is a cheap addition to a character than needs less cheap treatment.
Also, Manifold exists.
