I saw the “Revamp a Hero thread but couldn’t find a ”Revamp a Villain”, so here you go.
What villain would you revamp?
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I saw the “Revamp a Hero thread but couldn’t find a ”Revamp a Villain”, so here you go.
What villain would you revamp?
[URL="https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?99191-Revamp-a-Villain&highlight=Revamp+Villain"]https://community.cbr.com/showthread.php?99191-Revamp-a-Villain&highlight=Revamp+Villain[/URL]
i'm good with there being a part II of the thread. but i didn't start the original. so i have no say in it.
Lightning round revamps...
Hindsight being 20/20, I think they should make the Marvel Knights origin of costumed villains canon. They were originally G.Is and mercenaries outfitted with their weapons by corporate and government entities wanting a counter to the rising number of superheroes. With that in mind...
A much younger Norman Osborn would have gotten his start (as a mere technician) testing the hardware that was set aside for hired criminal operatives. He would see it as his patriotic duty and the way to become a success/support his new family. He'd eventually be given a masked identity of his own as the Red Cap. Most of his work would be industrial sabotage but he'd target a number of accused communists. His work and silence would make him several wealthy and well connected friends. There would be long term plans for Norman as a political figure. But the people behind the scenes see Norman as a pawn, at this point. He's vulnerable because, on some level, he wants to be a good man. He genuinely loves his family and country.
Moving along, Osborn now runs the lab. He's one of many to attempt to replicate or outdo Erskine. Yadda yadda he hits some set backs, takes some risks, and winds up with enhanced physical abilities, a heightened intellect, and every cluster B disorder you can imagine. He's smarter than Peter but focused entirely on complex revenge schemes and acquiring power. Early on, there'd be a clear distinction between family man Norman and the Goblin. At some point, his chemical imbalance evens out so he's more in control but at the loss of his altruism. He's the Goblin who now enjoys masquerading as Norman and sponsoring other costumed criminals as a nod to his origins.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4354137]Lightning round revamps...
Hindsight being 20/20, I think they should make the Marvel Knights origin of costumed villains canon. They were originally G.Is and mercenaries outfitted with their weapons by corporate and government entities wanting a counter to the rising number of superheroes. With that in mind...
A much younger Norman Osborn would have gotten his start (as a mere technician) testing the hardware that was set aside for hired criminal operatives. He would see it as his patriotic duty and the way to become a success/support his new family. He'd eventually be given a masked identity of his own as the Red Cap. Most of his work would be industrial sabotage but he'd target a number of accused communists. His work and silence would make him several wealthy and well connected friends. There would be long term plans for Norman as a political figure. But the people behind the scenes see Norman as a pawn, at this point. He's vulnerable because, on some level, he wants to be a good man. He genuinely loves his family and country.
Moving along, Osborn now runs the lab. He's one of many to attempt to replicate or outdo Erskine. Yadda yadda he hits some set backs, takes some risks, and winds up with enhanced physical abilities, a heightened intellect, and every cluster B disorder you can imagine. He's smarter than Peter but focused entirely on complex revenge schemes and acquiring power. Early on, there'd be a clear distinction between family man Norman and the Goblin. At some point, his chemical imbalance evens out so he's more in control but at the loss of his altruism. He's the Goblin who now enjoys masquerading as Norman and sponsoring other costumed criminals as a nod to his origins.
Movi[/QUOTE]
I like that idea. I like it a lot.
[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;4354225]I like that idea. I like it a lot.[/QUOTE]
thank you. I would have done a few more. but it takes so much longer on my phone.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4354993]thank you. I would have done a few more. but it takes so much longer on my phone.[/QUOTE]
You're welcome, and I can understand that.
Is this open to everyone? Can anyone suggest a Marvel villain revamp? What are the rules?
[QUOTE=CRaymond;4356443]Is this open to everyone? Can anyone suggest a Marvel villain revamp? What are the rules?[/QUOTE]
Just think of a Marvel villain that you’d like to remake. Then, write down your prompt.
Orb: Bring back Drake Shannon, turn him into an eye-themed cenobite, and upgrade his powers to duplicate any optic based ability and he could be a real, credible threat. As for motivation, I'd say just play him off as the herald of higher power like Blackheart, Mephistopheles, or someone similar.
Jack O' Lantern: progress with Steven Levins functioning as Jack O' Lantern after his death in Civil War and acting as a demonic agent of Mephistopheles/Blackheart; with his appearance taking on a more demonic look to better represent his new found supernatural status as seen during Lucifer's possession of his body in Ghost Rider. new found abilities and appearance somewhat reminiscent of a modernized Headless Horseman from the legend of Sleepy Hollow instead of keeping him as another Goblin knockoff seeing as there are already too many running around.
Scarecrow: if you'e familiar with either the Creeper (Jeepers Creepers) or the Scarecrow from the first season of Supernatural then you have a pretty good idea of where I want to go with this character. Probably base his mannerisms and methodology more off the former as it's a great deal more intimidating and arguably dangerous villain.
Kraven the Hunter: Newfound supernatural nature would make Kraven something more akin to Morlun, a supernatural predator obsessed with hunting down totemic animal characters and consuming their essence in order to gain the powers and abilities associated with the totem in question. While mostly independent Kraven could occasionally be shown to work for higher entities like Mephistopheles and Zadkiel, acting more along the lines of a bounty hunter for hell. New arsenal would include a number of mystic talismans and relics which would be acquired over the course of successful hunts and bounties.
[QUOTE=Draegwolf;4358694]
Scarecrow: if you'e familiar with either the Creeper (Jeepers Creepers) or the Scarecrow from the first season of Supernatural then you have a pretty good idea of where I want to go with this character. Probably base his mannerisms and methodology more off the former as it's a great deal more intimidating and arguably dangerous villain.
[/QUOTE]
so the character, Terror?
I actually went and revamped a whole team of Marvel villains. It's called Thugs, and it deals with several of Marvel's well-known villains. Please check it out and let me know what you think:
[url]https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1646615/1/Thugs-1-Organized-Crime[/url]
[QUOTE=Cap808;4359784]I actually went and revamped a whole team of Marvel villains. It's called Thugs, and it deals with several of Marvel's well-known villains. Please check it out and let me know what you think:
[url]https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1646615/1/Thugs-1-Organized-Crime[/url][/QUOTE]
I read this before. Very well done. I’ve read a lot of fan fiction. Especially the B villain stuff and the Avengers. I’m still waiting for Thugs 4. When are you going to continue it?
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4359332]so the character, Terror?[/QUOTE]
...actually yeah, they kinda are more or less the same thing now that I think about it.
[QUOTE=Draegwolf;4360482]...actually yeah, they kinda are more or less the same thing now that I think about it.[/QUOTE]
Well they are all decent revamps. Scarecrow could definitely use something to set him apart from the distinguished competition. I guess that's why the supernatural angle was added in the first place. Limb/organ harvest-ing makes perfect sense for a scarecrow. Borrowing from the 80s horror 'Scarecrows' you could also give him the ability to reanimate the people he kills/making scarecrows of his own ; with limits, of course.
Magneto
He's my favorite villain; definitely in my top 5 favorite characters list. So, this will be more spring cleaning than revamp.
Find the midpoint between the one dimensional bug eyed mutant supremacist of the original run and Claremont's idealized version. Actually, just go with Bunn's version. Max isn't a good man or even needing to be seen as one. He was a good kid who had his childhood and innocence ripped away from him. His temperament and a series of horrible experiences fashioned him into a dangerous individual committed to controlling his environment, protecting mutantkind, and engaging in acts of terrorism to accomplish both ends. Part of him might want the X-Men as a replacement family. But the pragmatist in him realizes that they will always try to hold him back from doing what is necessary.
Mostly what I want is for there to be emphasis on his non-mutant abilities; his ability to plan long term, his knowledge of the enemy, and his ability to be dangerous without his powers (it's a real crutch for the people who face him). I don't see a guy like that relying solely on manipulating magnetic fields. He's too paranoid. I would also establish that, in the earl days, he would have used a mutant healer of some sort (or Astra) to mitigate the effects of aging. This covers his post WWII adventures. But the healer would have perished shortly after the X-Men's creation; making him more active/desperate. And I would swap out Mutant Alpha with Wanda; introducing the first temporary glimpse of her true potential. I don't particularly like the xmen's involvement with the shear. So I might have someone besides Eric the Red restore him to his prime. Apocalypse, Astra, or The High Evolutionary maybe.
Sort out the Zaladane stuff. If Lorna is his daughter, they should really change Zaladane's name. Actually that reminds me. I don't need Magneto to be a polymath or a geneticist. An engineering background makes sense. Him being a smart guy with collegiate knowledge of the sciences is perfectly ok. But it's lazy to roll that into one character. He's always been clever enough to find experts and gain their compliance. Maybe he winds up in the Savageland, finds one of the Evolutionary's abandoned labs, and instructs Brainchild to make him some mutates. Zala_____ could be some failed clone that he planned to use as a battery for his powers.
And erase everything that Grant Morrison did with the character.
Frightful Four
I've written this a few times.
Bentley Wittman would be a disgraced scientist/inventor known for plagiarism, animal abuse, and falsifying results for pay. But there's a black market for everything. And he's just as brilliant as he is arrogant. Moving along, some shady organization hires Bentley to lead a expedition of the Negative Zone. It's he, some loser named Janus, Piotr Petruski (a sadistic dishonorably discharged soldier who had done industrial sabotage work for Wittman), and a small squad of mercenaries (think Jurassic Park villains).
This breaking into the N-Zone endangers New York; getting the Fantastic Four involved. A lot of Wittman's crew become food for the N-Zone locals. The Four rescue the others (including Petruski) and turn them over to authorities. Bentley runs further into the Zone; being uninterested in prison. He's found by a very old very malevolent entity that quickly sized Bentley as the perfect pawn. He just offers him what he's always wanted; fame, wealth, and the power to harm those who attacked his image. He becomes the Wingless Wizard. The ideas were suddenly flowing. His inventiveness was at an all-time high. And his ego followed suit. Wizard is sent back to Earth in order to get his revenge. He goes about recruiting others to achieve this goal. And he came back with some very exotic weaponry to impress and enhance others. When he fails to defeat the Fantastic Four, he starts the real work of pillaging other worlds and planets on behalf of the Negative Zone entity. He'd gradually lose his grip on reality from having part of his mind tethered to the Negative Zone.
Pete, w/ Wizard's aid, becomes the Trap-Master. Wizard gives him alien equipment that he's able to pimp into restraint devices of varying lethality. He sticks with Wizard because the latter doesn't judge him for his quirks.
Oh and though no one cared, Janus actually survived only to be killed by his higher functioning N-zone doppelgänger the Nega-Man.
Professor Power......gets his hands on a old Iron Patriot suit, revamps it, finally realizes his plans for revenge never go well (against Cap, Xavier, Spider-Man) instead tries to hire himself out to Taskmaster or Hobgoblin.....
Institute of Evil (616 Version)
Ape X: Cynernetic Talking Gorilla, has robot legs instead of tank treads
Lamprey: energy absorber/ copier....has powers also include flight/ energy blasts, can use powers he absorbs, with the training/ control needed
Doctor Decibel: Sonic Weapons
Quagmire: has access to the shadow Realms in form of black tar
Shape: shapeshifter, smarter than Gruenwald Version
Gauntlet: Enhanced Inhuman Merc......former Dark Rider, Weapons expert brought in in case they tangle with any X Teams
[QUOTE=Decoy;4362686]Professor Power......gets his hands on a old Iron Patriot suit, revamps it, finally realizes his plans for revenge never go well (against Cap, Xavier, Spider-Man) instead tries to hire himself out to Taskmaster or Hobgoblin.....
Institute of Evil (616 Version)
Ape X: Cynernetic Talking Gorilla, has robot legs instead of tank treads
Lamprey: energy absorber/ copier....has powers also include flight/ energy blasts, can use powers he absorbs, with the training/ control needed
Doctor Decibel: Sonic Weapons
Quagmire: has access to the shadow Realms in form of black tar
Shape: shapeshifter, smarter than Gruenwald Version
Gauntlet: Enhanced Inhuman Merc......former Dark Rider, Weapons expert brought in in case they tangle with any X Teams[/QUOTE]
Add
Remnant- Magic carpet and bag full of tricks
Mink- Wolverine claws and mink stink gas
Pinball- Inflatable suit
These guys were former instituters.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4362386]Well they are all decent revamps. Scarecrow could definitely use something to set him apart from the distinguished competition. I guess that's why the supernatural angle was added in the first place. Limb/organ harvest-ing makes perfect sense for a scarecrow. Borrowing from the 80s horror 'Scarecrows' you could also give him the ability to reanimate the people he kills/making scarecrows of his own ; with limits, of course.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much my point, try to further separate him from DC's iteration of the moniker. Marvel did the right thing when they moved him over into being a Ghost Rider villain but they could go farther with the concept by including a few elements of classic movie monsters and themes. I think they could make something truly great by combining elements of Children of the Corn, Jeepers Creeper's, the Wicker Man, the Collection, maybe even Hellraiser into the concept and arcs of the Scarecrow to showcase him as a truly horrific character.
On that note.
Swarm: another character that could seriously benefit moving to the supernatural side of things (honestly not sure how he hasn't been already). Play his body off as being comprised of infernal wasp, perhaps over the remnants of his physical remains, in order to give him a few additional abilities. Given that the dude is supposed to be (another) Nazi scientist maybe adjust his appearance a bit to conceal the majority of body beneath something other than a cowl, with face generally obscured behind porcelain mask or featureless gas mask to give him this more menacing and Lovecraftian horror vibe. Basically just turn him into Candyman, maybe even pursue the descendants of holocaust survivors & WWII soldiers out of vengeance or spite.
[QUOTE=Draegwolf;4363622]Pretty much my point, try to further separate him from DC's iteration of the moniker. Marvel did the right thing when they moved him over into being a Ghost Rider villain but they could go farther with the concept by including a few elements of classic movie monsters and themes. I think they could make something truly great by combining elements of Children of the Corn, Jeepers Creeper's, the Wicker Man, the Collection, maybe even Hellraiser into the concept and arcs of the Scarecrow to showcase him as a truly horrific character.
On that note.
Swarm: another character that could seriously benefit moving to the supernatural side of things (honestly not sure how he hasn't been already). Play his body off as being comprised of infernal wasp, perhaps over the remnants of his physical remains, in order to give him a few additional abilities. Given that the dude is supposed to be (another) Nazi scientist maybe adjust his appearance a bit to conceal the majority of body beneath something other than a cowl, with face generally obscured behind porcelain mask or featureless gas mask to give him this more menacing and Lovecraftian horror vibe. Basically just turn him into Candyman, maybe even pursue the descendants of holocaust survivors & WWII soldiers out of vengeance or spite.[/QUOTE]
Nazi scientist (maybe an underling of von Strucker's) who veered off into the occult after falling ill and seeking some form of immortality. The look can change depending on the story. But I think a swarm of supernatural wasps housing themselves in a nazi uniform (no insignia) might work. the custom gas mask in lieu of a face. So basically a scarecrow made of "bees." But I think that Swarm could benefit from having more of a personality. Sometimes, he would walk around in a 3-piece suit. Maybe even a tuxedo when holding parties/kidnapping people. And his voice would be almost hypnotic; like thousands of voices speaking at once. He'd be a monster with pretensions of being a man; like Toulon from the Puppetmaster movies.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4363879]Nazi scientist (maybe an underling of von Strucker's) who veered off into the occult after falling ill and seeking some form of immortality. The look can change depending on the story. But I think a swarm of supernatural wasps housing themselves in a nazi uniform (no insignia) might work. the custom gas mask in lieu of a face. So basically a scarecrow made of "bees." But I think that Swarm could benefit from having more of a personality. Sometimes, he would walk around in a 3-piece suit. Maybe even a tuxedo when holding parties/kidnapping people. And his voice would be almost hypnotic; like thousands of voices speaking at once. He'd be a monster with pretensions of being a man; like Toulon from the Puppetmaster movies.[/QUOTE]
On that note, you could make the Puppet Master more like Toulon from the earlier Puppetmaster films. Including killer puppets among other things
[QUOTE=Dreaded Porcupine;4363485]Add
Remnant- Magic carpet and bag full of tricks
Mink- Wolverine claws and mink stink gas
Pinball- Inflatable suit
These guys were former instituters.[/QUOTE]
I forgot about them.......heck, I’m waiting for the Squadron to expand in Avengers (Golden Archer. Arcanna, Captain Hawk, Lady Lark, Amphibian, Skymax, Tom Thumb, Nuke....)
[QUOTE=Draegwolf;4363958]On that note, you could make the Puppet Master more like Toulon from the earlier Puppetmaster films. Including killer puppets among other things[/QUOTE]
I thought about it. But the guy is already at a level of creepiness that makes his relationship with Alicia unrealistic.
[QUOTE=Decoy;4364020]I forgot about them.......heck, I’m waiting for the Squadron to expand in Avengers (Golden Archer. Arcanna, Captain Hawk, Lady Lark, Amphibian, Skymax, Tom Thumb, Nuke....)[/QUOTE]
I kind of want characters like that to show up but as younger heroes (or villains); in the vein of the New Warriors. Some of them could benefit from the redesign imo. Same with the institute of evil. And I have always thought that they should introduce the squadron supreme's version of the teen titans.
[QUOTE=Dreaded Porcupine;4363485]Add
Remnant- Magic carpet and bag full of tricks
Mink- Wolverine claws and mink stink gas
Pinball- Inflatable suit
These guys were former instituters.[/QUOTE]
I could see someone like Roderick Kingsley or Power Broker trying to diversify their businesses; maybe opening a school of some sort...an institute... of evil. And upon graduation, they get their new villain identities. It'd be an easy way to introduce Mink, Remnant, and Pinball.
[QUOTE=Decoy;4364020]I forgot about them.......heck, I’m waiting for the Squadron to expand in Avengers (Golden Archer. Arcanna, Captain Hawk, Lady Lark, Amphibian, Skymax, Tom Thumb, Nuke....)[/QUOTE]
Loved Gruenwald’s run. One of the best ever. He is still my favorite writer of all time. It would be great to see the entire cast of Squadroners again and the Institute. Don’t forget Redstone, Haywire, Inertia, Thermite and Moonglow. Great additional characters. To bad most of them died. It would be great to have another universe with all of them alive.
Adam Mann from the Thunderstrike limited series. He survives being eaten by Mangog and being transported to the other side of the universe because he is part Olympian. A grandson of Poseidon and has has demigod strength and can breathe underwater. He has an adamantine war axe. He comes back to Earth and is a super villain with a secret identity. He runs his business and uses an LMD to appear publicly when he is out destroying his competition with his godly powers.
IMO a magnificent proposal. As far as I know, the last super villain with a secret identity was the comicbook character Phil Urich [B][SIZE=1]aka Hobgoblin[/SIZE][/B]
[B]The Terrible Tale of Mortimer Toynbee [/B]
[I]"Toad? The lackey? Hahaha I haven't seen him or even thought about him, who cares. . ." - Exodus to Husk on Krakoa[/I]
Mortimer Toynbee was lost. In fact he'd felt he had spent his entire life lost. He was lost when his parents left him at the orphanage.
Lost among the other children that had been cast aside by wayward progenitors. Lost among his fellow so-called homo superior.
Lost in space among strange star gods and lost on earth cast aside by people he'd idolized and loved.
So he killed himself. Tried to discard his life like so many others had discarded him, like refuse, like trash... but as they say one mans trash...
and where the mutants lost their toadee. The Shadow council found Mortimer Toynbee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mortimer Toynbee is the story of the mutant formerly known as toad and how he becomes a high level espionage asset/agent for any of the espianoge groups you can thik of really but his true allegiance is to the shadow council and himself
Thing about toad is that he's really a big ball of physical super powers nowadays but MORE importantly... toad is a genius can build ex-skeltons, and androids but really wasn't creative enbogh to become IronMan, but honestly his biggest thing was that he was ugly and ashamed and made miserable.
But now... he's probably one of the greatest assassins the world has never known (Thanks to Moira Mctaggert continually resetting everything).
His powers really lend themselves to this too and marvel just kept dumping them on him... Think of everything any amphian creature on earth "CAN" do and "The Monster" Mortimer Toynbee can do it.
He's spiderman + the purpleman + gorgan from hydra, and so finally someone comes in and puts ALL those powers to use.
Wall Crawling, camouflage, super-genius, pheromones, various chemical secretions. Agility and speed the way toads can react fast enough to catch flies he use guns... swords... knives... whatever's handy. He's been trained by some of the best money can buy, as well as the taskmaser who won't remeber him specifially because Mortimer is a master of hiding his mutation and skills, in fact being non-descript at will is one of his greatest abilities.
Visually he's Jack Hawskmore from the authority with a better suit, and better hair. Occasionally no shirt and a long coat...
Personality wise he's a smiley glad hand, well wishing, friendly and polite. Conversely he's also the villian character from not country from old men. "Why do you always say that.... You don't have to do this"
In the end though, he's not a character that misses the X-story. He doesn't care if sentinels ravage the planet, nor honestly if "Bad Guys" win, or the "Good Guys" win. . . he's finally found something that matters more than any allegiance, any plan, any ending...
He's found himself.
A new kind of man, a new kind of monster.
Mortimer Toynbee
Joker
Is dead.
Clayface
Vincent Price from House of Wax plus Vincent Price from Dr. Phibes. He's not a shapeshifter, he's an actor who murders everyone that ever wronged him in outlandish and attention-getting ways. He uses his knowledge of disguise to get close to his victims.
Mr. Freeze
Reforms. Serves his sentence in a special room in Ivy University while helping Ray Palmer come up with miracle treatments. Cryo super science plus microsurgeons can cure a lot. Feels a vague but tangible sense of satisfaction for the lives he saves.
Catwoman
Gets a sidekick after she happens to catch a runaway shoplifter. She takes the runaway under her wing to show her how its done.
[QUOTE=Midnight_v;4813542][B]The Terrible Tale of Mortimer Toynbee [/B]
[I]"Toad? The lackey? Hahaha I haven't seen him or even thought about him, who cares. . ." - Exodus to Husk on Krakoa[/I]
Mortimer Toynbee was lost. In fact he'd felt he had spent his entire life lost. He was lost when his parents left him at the orphanage.
Lost among the other children that had been cast aside by wayward progenitors. Lost among his fellow so-called homo superior.
Lost in space among strange star gods and lost on earth cast aside by people he'd idolized and loved.
So he killed himself. Tried to discard his life like so many others had discarded him, like refuse, like trash... but as they say one mans trash...
and where the mutants lost their toadee. The Shadow council found Mortimer Toynbee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mortimer Toynbee is the story of the mutant formerly known as toad and how he becomes a high level espionage asset/agent for any of the espianoge groups you can thik of really but his true allegiance is to the shadow council and himself
Thing about toad is that he's really a big ball of physical super powers nowadays but MORE importantly... toad is a genius can build ex-skeltons, and androids but really wasn't creative enbogh to become IronMan, but honestly his biggest thing was that he was ugly and ashamed and made miserable.
But now... he's probably one of the greatest assassins the world has never known (Thanks to Moira Mctaggert continually resetting everything).
His powers really lend themselves to this too and marvel just kept dumping them on him... Think of everything any amphian creature on earth "CAN" do and "The Monster" Mortimer Toynbee can do it.
He's spiderman + the purpleman + gorgan from hydra, and so finally someone comes in and puts ALL those powers to use.
Wall Crawling, camouflage, super-genius, pheromones, various chemical secretions. Agility and speed the way toads can react fast enough to catch flies he use guns... swords... knives... whatever's handy. He's been trained by some of the best money can buy, as well as the taskmaser who won't remeber him specifially because Mortimer is a master of hiding his mutation and skills, in fact being non-descript at will is one of his greatest abilities.
Visually he's Jack Hawskmore from the authority with a better suit, and better hair. Occasionally no shirt and a long coat...
Personality wise he's a smiley glad hand, well wishing, friendly and polite. Conversely he's also the villian character from not country from old men. "Why do you always say that.... You don't have to do this"
In the end though, he's not a character that misses the X-story. He doesn't care if sentinels ravage the planet, nor honestly if "Bad Guys" win, or the "Good Guys" win. . . he's finally found something that matters more than any allegiance, any plan, any ending...
He's found himself.
A new kind of man, a new kind of monster.
Mortimer Toynbee[/QUOTE]
I like this. I like this a lot, actually.
[QUOTE=Otto Gruenwald;4813556]Joker
Is dead.
Clayface
Vincent Price from House of Wax plus Vincent Price from Dr. Phibes. He's not a shapeshifter, he's an actor who murders everyone that ever wronged him in outlandish and attention-getting ways. He uses his knowledge of disguise to get close to his victims.
Mr. Freeze
Reforms. Serves his sentence in a special room in Ivy University while helping Ray Palmer come up with miracle treatments. Cryo super science plus microsurgeons can cure a lot. Feels a vague but tangible sense of satisfaction for the lives he saves.
Catwoman
Gets a sidekick after she happens to catch a runaway shoplifter. She takes the runaway under her wing to show her how its done.[/QUOTE]
I like your ideas, but do you have any in mind for Marvel villains?
[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider]I like this. I like this a lot, actually.?[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of these lesser characters aren't held back by powers but by narrative. A long time ago I wrote this for Daken.
[QUOTE]If I'm honest, I really liked Daken. . . during Dark Reign. So that was my expectation of the character. If I think about him ostensibly I'd think "this guys trolling", but he's actually doing it brilliantly.
He's an inversion of wolverine's masculinity, and his "moral" code, this guy shows up and makes EVERYONE question their sexuality with pheromone manipulation. His interactions with "Gorgon/Venom"; the "human torch";
and honestly even Ares was damned funny, hes served to keep everyone on edge, and was a master manipulator who was actually immune to telepathy so he couldn't get "cheated out" so to speak on his machinations.
Here you have character whose true power lies in "Out witting" everyone as well NOT just out fighting them (but he could do that too), inheritor of a rather insane legacy and whose prime motivator is power, who got a taste of power
being one of Earth's Mightiest Heroes for a year, and friends with the fantastic 4, PERFECT for being a big bad, Crime lord, or at least a major player in the Marvel universe....
Then dark reign ended.
They moved his characterization back to "whine about dad" to chase dads coat tails... silly stuff about Romulus, establish his "relationship" to the clone (which really... could have been done way better and in his favor)
Then the writers moved him to L.A. where he got hooked on "heat" a plot devices drug that beats healing factors... and really I lost interest after that.
I picked it up and scanned it, I'd follow it in previews, but the writer in my opinion didn't do the character justice but MORESO didn't understand that people following a character in that characters SOLO BOOK, overwhelmingly do so to
see the the character win or dare I say GROW. I picked up that solo and ... I remember my brother liked him and started picking up the book, but he said... "Damn, I'm not gonna keep paying to see a character I like get thrashed ever issue".
[I] this in the wiki[/I]
[I] Liu described him as someone who is confident in his own abilities and superiority, despite never having actually tested them "on the world stage". But since taking up the mantle of Wolverine means being in the public eye, he gets to "live a little and spread his wings [and] face the fact that there are people just a bit better at the game than him....
On whether Daken joining the Dark Avengers means he's being redeemed or not, Liu stated that in order for someone to want to achieve redemption, they first need to believe they've committed an act that requires atonement, and Daken doesn't feel any guilt for his past actions.[6] She also described him as elegant, preferring to use his brains over his brawn. She further stated that Daken is unable to form meaningful relationships, with the ones he does form being based on how he can use the people around him. His father is the one exception, who manages to "ruffle his emotions".[8]
[/I]"The first part translated to "Daken fails at everything after the dark avengers", the second in practice was "He never gets over his daddy issues, and transfers some of them to x-23 imho"
So he basically went from a guy poised to be super dangerous, essentially able to become the "Kingpin" at a minimum where ever he went, while pretending to be a hero to... well... a 3rd tier putz that almost everyone hates
Except for his sexuality for which he's loved, but critical analysis illustrates he's not really bi or pan or whatever his interest is power and control, he's a violent manipulative, brilliant...sociopath or psychopath. Sure he'll sleep with you but...
"You think I care? We're all just meat" -Black manta should have always been his secret position on things while he's accepting love and awards and playing the good guy.
[I]The best way for him to defeat wolverine would have been to keep "winning" and doing bad things dressed as wolverine and all the while his response to both Wolverine AND X-23 should have been
"Dad... Sis, please get out of my office, the security for this building are all actual off duty police officers, and I'd hate to see you got to jail..."
and Not...
RAWR I'm gonna KILL YOU!!!!
[/I] Instead of fighting them hire a mutant bodyguard whose sole job is teleport melee guys away a (neo vanisher if you will), or hell have Mr.Fantastic design smart system that does just that, and have logan served with ACTUAL back child
support papers and require a DNA test if he wants to be trolling.
I have trouble selling you on a character that has suffered such a regression over the years. I like him, he lived the perfect "blueprint for a bastard" and he has potential but it was never really reached, he could have been a real player and IF YOU WANTED to read a book about an unrepentant bad guy then he would have been the perfect fit "If you want that" alot of people don't but then its what we say about different target audience all the time.
Daken was supposed to be Mordred + Christian Grey + Sabertooth...
... but instead they chose to drown him in a puddle. ymmv.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE][I]Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post [/I]
I didn't like him until he was the Dark Avengers' Wolverine. I like that he's an evil Wolverine alternative who isn't as trashy as Sabretooth.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]I agree with this. The perfect fit for him is being the black king of the hellfire club, except based out of LA and Vegas, and where as Wolverine is many times portrayed as an honorable Samurai Berserker and in touch with the wild. Daikin, should be a depraved predator in touch with the post of modern civilization. Reading a book about him should be like reading the best book about Lex Luthor.
Wolverine has his daughters but he should also have a son that he's not proud of and would stop if you could... But he should not be able to through hook or crook, because while Dakin could theoretically out fight him or not... The entire goal is to deny Wolverine that fight unless it's a certain win and an embarrassing one at that.
More importantly the more Wolverine chases him down the more it should look like he's the bad one, coming in late trying to be a dad when he never was, portrayed by Dakin as father that is after him now that he's found legitimate success excetera excetera.
Meanwhile he's actually a high tier power broker involved in lots of things, but he still gets invited to Fantastic Four gatherings and meetings with the Avengers because everyone thinks he's a good guy and that's his cover [/QUOTE]
Krokoa upsets this type of thing entirely but ... Hell he could work for Roxxon or any other group instead, Doesn't matter.
i appreciate the Toad revamp. i can't remember if i did one for the Brotherhood in this thread. but i do feel that they were a victim of that time period. they were comical foils to the X-Men. realistically, a guy like Magneto would be more discerning on who he used as his core attack force. his choices would be skill based. and he'd logically train/test them. i thought that the original ******action x-men movie gave me some of what i wanted. Toad was more or less an engineer or high level mechanic. what nature didn't give him in the looks department was compensated for with intelligence. i could see him as the Brotherhood's demolitions expert and hacker. even if he isn't some kind of martial artist like Ray Park, he still does have super strength (most of it in his legs). he'd be dangerous to most humans physically. learning jiu jitsu might enhance that. otherwise though, i think he should be the mechanically inclined member, lookout, weapons expert, etc. personality-wise, i don't see him as someone necessarily wanting to engage physically. all of the abuse he experienced as a child probably led to his apprehension.
Mastermind would of course be quite experienced in intelligence gathering and subterfuge. he brings knowledge of psy-ops to their terrorist cell. but he'd be relatively useless as a physical combatant; preferring to use his illusions or a gun (if it came to that).
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4814442]i appreciate the Toad revamp. i can't remember if i did one for the Brotherhood in this thread. but i do feel that they were a victim of that time period. they were comical foils to the X-Men. realistically, a guy like Magneto would be more discerning on who he used as his core attack force. his choices would be skill based. and he'd logically train/test them. i thought that the original ******action x-men movie gave me some of what i wanted. Toad was more or less an engineer or high level mechanic. what nature didn't give him in the looks department was compensated for with intelligence. i could see him as the Brotherhood's demolitions expert and hacker. even if he isn't some kind of martial artist like Ray Park, he still does have super strength (most of it in his legs). he'd be dangerous to most humans physically. learning jiu jitsu might enhance that. otherwise though, i think he should be the mechanically inclined member, lookout, weapons expert, etc. personality-wise, i don't see him as someone necessarily wanting to engage physically. all of the abuse he experienced as a child probably led to his apprehension.
Mastermind would of course be quite experienced in intelligence gathering and subterfuge. he brings knowledge of psy-ops to their terrorist cell. but he'd be relatively useless as a physical combatant; preferring to use his illusions or a gun (if it came to that).[/QUOTE]
Well yeah one of the reasons I went into a whole revamp, and why i think its a good idea right now especially is because of hickmans run.
I don't love the krakoa bit because of the lack of dissenters so far therefore, I'm more interested in the mutants that would be just tired of serving the cause and especially Mags or Sinister, or =A= pocalpse in general.
Toad will always be toad as long as he's ugly and as long as he serves magneto in any capacity. There's a lot of mutants that are just NEVER going to be mutant royalty.
As far as looks go in there was this issue X-men 379 where they showed him if he wasn't born a mutant, pretty handsome guy
I'd have him played by Robert Pattinson or some other character with non-traditional good looks. Even aside from people like Masque (who should be there) and Fabian Cortez existing alongside the mutants means that
there are a lot of options when it come for reason to NOT be what you were.
But... of all the people out there who are involved in mystical, alien, inter-dimensional, The shadow council just randomly jumped out at me as being the perfect fit for toad. Especially since Max fury and John Steele are dead.
So yeah I think the best revamp for toad at least is to reject that name, get with people who appreciate and utilize his skills and intellect, but moreso have james bond adventures.
Even if he's found new masters. This group lets him be sometime so much more important that what he's been to the X-books. I agree a victim to the age he was made.
Horrible to see a character never get any growth espcially when his role is perpetual whipping boy and "Toadie' smh.
Not to mention access to new tech. His powers + tech-tailored for him make him just a threat to everybody he gets sicked on.
Kinda cool that any big-bad organization can just hand you a makeover too. Makes a lot of sense.
Those are some interesting thoughts there. I especially like your take on Daken from way back, having him as the true inverse of his father --- as opposed to an anti-hero that is somewhat distrusted, feared, or even looked at askance for his savage nature, a villain that is beloved by almost everyone, including actual heroes, because he's so good at adopting and exploiting the trappings of civilization and playing (or preying) on people's assumptions and biases.
“The Mandarin”
Trying a different approach. I would keep the background as an Tem being from an obscenely wealthy family and being raised by a bitter & sociopathic aunt. He’d grow up enjoying every privilege of having money but would also seek influence. As a young man he’d already have ties to the criminal underworld and vice in general. But he’d still basically be a lazy brat who would feel entitled to status simply because of his heritage (from a long line of warriors & some say despots). Anyways, he pisses off the wrong people and is taken out to the middle of nowhere to be tortured & killed.
Much of what happens next will be magically rewritten in his memory; to make it a brave hero’s story . But he survives due to encountering the rings. This is the big change. You may know that Kunlun was ruled by dragons at one point. They had land disputes & personal wars just like humans. One of the nastiest dragons was named Makkulan. The others ganged up on him and spread his essence among 10 rings. So Makkulan thinks he has found a desperate and vulnerable vessel that he can eventually use to regain his form. He doesn’t realize just how strong Tem’s narcissism and thirst for power is. He’s able to guide but not control the new wearer of the rings.
Still arrogant and a glory hound, my version would actually start out as China’s hero. He would publicly oppose organized crime and corrupt military figures. But his motives would remain impure; a need for revenge and to be worshipped. Makkulan would nurture this side of Tem. Enter the evil American Iron Man! Stark has the nerve to enter China in pursuit of the Radioactive Man. Without hesitation, Tem attacks the intruder and seemingly defeats him with little effort. Yadda yadda, Iron Man wins the second round and protects civilians who get caught up in the fight.
Tem is humiliated. This and Makkulan’s urging is enough to turn China’s champion against the rabble. He decides that their fear is just as useful. He becomes the region’s fiercest villains and a criminal planner with global reach. And yes the Ten Rings terrorist cell is his. In case it’s not clear, Makkulan kind of molds him into a leader. He’s able to erase the complacency and bring out the repressed rage. This allows Tem to put in the physical and spiritual work to become the Mandarin we are familiar with. Remember that this potential is in his blood. He’s descended from rulers and was made soft by privilege. The Mandarin name was given to him by American and British intelligence. It’s derogatory and not used by other Asians. He has a villain name. I just haven’t thought of it. I like his armor look from Acts of Vengeance. He forms it with the rings but the look was straight out of the stories he was told as a child. Normally he’s in overly expensive tailored suits. Demeanor-wise, he’s a thin skinned showman who enjoys combat and people singing his praises. And, temper aside, my version is a bit of a marketing genius. That and his money allowed him to really exploit China’s black market prior to finding the rings.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4953871]“The Mandarin”
Trying a different approach. I would keep the background as an Tem being from an obscenely wealthy family and being raised by a bitter & sociopathic aunt. He’d grow up enjoying every privilege of having money but would also seek influence. As a young man he’d already have ties to the criminal underworld and vice in general. But he’d still basically be a lazy brat who would feel entitled to status simply because of his heritage (from a long line of warriors & some say despots). Anyways, he pisses off the wrong people and is taken out to the middle of nowhere to be tortured & killed.
Much of what happens next will be magically rewritten in his memory; to make it a brave hero’s story . But he survives due to encountering the rings. This is the big change. You may know that Kunlun was ruled by dragons at one point. They had land disputes & personal wars just like humans. One of the nastiest dragons was named Makkulan. The others ganged up on him and spread his essence among 10 rings. So Makkulan thinks he has found a desperate and vulnerable vessel that he can eventually use to regain his form. He doesn’t realize just how strong Tem’s narcissism and thirst for power is. He’s able to guide but not control the new wearer of the rings.
Still arrogant and a glory hound, my version would actually start out as China’s hero. He would publicly oppose organized crime and corrupt military figures. But his motives would remain impure; a need for revenge and to be worshipped. Makkulan would nurture this side of Tem. Enter the evil American Iron Man! Stark has the nerve to enter China in pursuit of the Radioactive Man. Without hesitation, Tem attacks the intruder and seemingly defeats him with little effort. Yadda yadda, Iron Man wins the second round and protects civilians who get caught up in the fight.
Tem is humiliated. This and Makkulan’s urging is enough to turn China’s champion against the rabble. He decides that their fear is just as useful. He becomes the region’s fiercest villains and a criminal planner with global reach. And yes the Ten Rings terrorist cell is his. In case it’s not clear, Makkulan kind of molds him into a leader. He’s able to erase the complacency and bring out the repressed rage. This allows Tem to put in the physical and spiritual work to become the Mandarin we are familiar with. Remember that this potential is in his blood. He’s descended from rulers and was made soft by privilege. The Mandarin name was given to him by American and British intelligence. It’s derogatory and not used by other Asians. He has a villain name. I just haven’t thought of it. I like his armor look from Acts of Vengeance. He forms it with the rings but the look was straight out of the stories he was told as a child. Normally he’s in overly expensive tailored suits. Demeanor-wise, he’s a thin skinned showman who enjoys combat and people singing his praises. And, temper aside, my version is a bit of a marketing genius. That and his money allowed him to really exploit China’s black market prior to finding the rings.[/QUOTE]
That sounds very much like an evil Iron Man. I like it. This is the kind of characterization and development I think would make him a top-notch rival to Tony Stark like he was supposed to be. And you even threw in an Iron Fist connection with the Makluan rings coming from K'un-L'un, which I like as well.
[QUOTE=Huntsman Spider;4954897]That sounds very much like an evil Iron Man. I like it. This is the kind of characterization and development I think would make him a top-notch rival to Tony Stark like he was supposed to be. And you even threw in an Iron Fist connection with the Makluan rings coming from K'un-L'un, which I like as well.[/QUOTE]
Thank you. I remember people not liking the idea of Mandarin being the pawn of an alien race. So I did a quick read of the dragon seed storyline. Decided that it would be cleaner to fit those characters into existing kunlun history. I also gave Mandarin some dignity back by having him be so insanely high on himself that the dragon’s essence couldn’t control him. He would make a play for kunlun at some point and pretend to be Master Khan. He’d also have a strange relationship of mutual respect with Fin Fang Foom. They both have contempt for humanity.
Thank you for picking up on the symmetry with stark’s story. I tend to rush when I type this out on my phone. He’s very much what tony was before taking over stark industries; an intellectually gifted hedonist. Having Chinese underworld figures put him in a trunk and take him to a killing field was supposed to be his shrapnel to the heart moment. And Makkulan is blatantly yinsen in the story. But make no mistake, the Mandarin would acknowledge no commonality between himself and any other person besides maybe Genghis Khan. The rings amplify all of his character flaws even as they augment his chi. His senses are dialed up to 10 as well. I would distinguish this from Norman Osborn’s super sanity.
The Serpent Society
I admit that my problem with them is visual. They look like something a toy company would have created in the 80s. I don’t know that it has aged well; depends on the artist. But I have also seen some cool redesigns. Black Mamba and Constrictor looked quite formidable in that one-off Daredevil appearance. Anyways...
I would change the mission statement and make it more exclusive. You don’t get invited to the Serpent Society without first establishing a rep as a successful contract killer, merc, smuggler, or cage fighter. Most of these snakes would be wanted in multiple countries. And they don’t get to choose their venomous persona. They get that after a painful initiation. Some are cybernetically enhanced like the Reavers. Others happen to be mutants or inhumans (they don’t discriminate). And they hire themselves out as gun runner protection and killers for hire. The society was originally a Hydra special forces unit that was co-opted by Voorhees, a sadistic recruit with a penchant for strangulation. They lost a few members in the course of business. He strangled whoever was left and used that opportunity to branch out.
SHIELD, pretending to be another organization, tries to infiltrate the group by augmenting an injured soldier named Frank Payne and creating a reputation for him as the Constrictor. Unfortunately, he is finally accepted into the gang as Ophelia Sarkassian takes over. She’s a nihilist and a fan of collateral damage. She also changes the admission standards (lets just say that there were several people wearing the Boomslang outfit). Frank winds up with so much blood on his hands that SHIELD cuts him loose. This and a relationship with the equally conflicted Diamondback keep him on the dark side.
So my change was to make the more familiar serpents professionals. They are each dangerous enough on their own to justify being regular headaches for Captain America. That doesn’t mean that Mamba and Asp don’t still enjoy clubbing. Their personalities are intact. But they would now be peers of someone like Natasha Romanoff instead of being former exotic dancers or car salesmen.
[url]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/SmE4aW4aar6gsfTQTUzdPxXz07HPv1H7uEx8Y9EAR0u06BlPLNUAf252tWTlRa1bnwK6sCBTedAz5vMxY4INtWJ8h5xW0U7bRJIrSg[/url]
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;4954994]The Serpent Society [/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/5hHOBKJ8lw9OM/giphy.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9b/a1/16/9ba116bd2a134b79c45e103a0e3236b8.jpg[/IMG]
My only request is that they have a NOLA safehouse and are known as the Assassin's Guild there.
Would you mind revamping the Thieves' Guild while you're at it? Make it a similarly loose international discipline --rather than some weird family thing.