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Personal I believe that what Wanda did was the gamechanger. Before she created the 'Waiting Room' the ressurection protocols didn't realy ressurect mutants but rather created clones/copies, new entities, of the original. Nowhere in the descriptions I found about the RP was mention of a soul being retrieved and placed in the new body. Now with the 'Waiting Room' this is different. The 'Waiting Room' collects the souls before they travel on to the afterlife and allow them to be placed in a new body as part of the ressurection proces. Making Thunderbird one of the first 'truely' ressurected mutants.
However, when considering this I do have a few questions :
- Before the 'Waiting Room' there have been several mutants who died and have been through the RP several times. Are there now multiple slightly different souls of the same mutant in the afterlife ?
- Are the souls of those currently ressurected the original souls or the most recent soul of the mutant that died ?
- If Moira X was to die with her power intact would her soul now be 'captured' by the 'Waiting Room', thus preventing a reset and allowing Moira to be ressurrected ?
This whole RP mess and the loss of the 'originals' might be a reason why a Moira-reset of this timeline might be desirable :) (and create a new Krakoa-timeline with a 'Waiting Room' as part of the RP from the start).
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[QUOTE=gerlof101;5911228]Personal I believe that what Wanda did was the gamechanger. Before she created the 'Waiting Room' [B]the ressurection protocols didn't realy ressurect mutants but rather created clones/copies[/B], new entities, of the original. Nowhere in the descriptions I found about the RP was mention of a soul being retrieved and placed in the new body. Now with the 'Waiting Room' this is different. The 'Waiting Room' collects the souls before they travel on to the afterlife and allow them to be placed in a new body as part of the ressurection proces. Making Thunderbird one of the first 'truely' ressurected mutants.
However, when considering this I do have a few questions :
- Before the 'Waiting Room' there have been several mutants who died and have been through the RP several times. Are there now multiple slightly different souls of the same mutant in the afterlife ?
- Are the souls of those currently ressurected the original souls or the most recent soul of the mutant that died ?
- If Moira X was to die with her power intact would her soul now be 'captured' by the 'Waiting Room', thus preventing a reset and allowing Moira to be ressurrected ?
This whole RP mess and the loss of the 'originals' might be a reason why a Moira-reset of this timeline might be desirable :) (and create a new Krakoa-timeline with a 'Waiting Room' as part of the RP from the start).[/QUOTE]
Cloning is considering to be a form of biological immortality. Such as is the case with the immortal jellyfish.
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One could argue the soul is just a placeholder word we use to describe the complex, yet-to-be- explained parts of human behavior.
In other words it’s a placeholder word.
In hickman’s version, yea. The soul is basically backed up and inserted into a clone body.
I don’t necessarily see this being contradictory to resurrection nor the concept of a soul. If every portion of the person’s neuroactivity is being replicated into a duplicate of their body and brain, it seems to me like that qualifies as a resurrection. In
Other words, I don’t think we need to know what exactly a soul is in order to say these people are being resurrected.
I mean, this is an easier pill for me to swallow than, say, marvel legitimizing heaven by showing Kurt in it pre resurrection (I don’t not believe in heaven, I just found that more… consequential?…. Than hickman’s version. One is saying heaven is real and where good souls go; the other is saying we don’t really know what a soul is, but we are capable of copying and reproducing it).
In sum, I’d say it’s “just cloning”
Until they are “uploaded with their data”. After the upload, it’s more than a clone, it’s no different than their original self.
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I think Hickman intended the Resurrection Protocols to be either cloning, or at least ambiguous, but other artists want it to be a real resurrection, hence why they had Wanda add some mysticism to the mix...
The Resurrection Protocols still can create copies, however, which could an existential crisis if some mutant is believed dead, a copy is created, and then the original one returns, and the Quiet Council has to decide which one is the real one and what to do with the other...
[QUOTE=Grey;5912010]One could argue the soul is just a placeholder word we use to describe the complex, yet-to-be- explained parts of human behavior.
In other words it’s a placeholder word.
In hickman’s version, yea. The soul is basically backed up and inserted into a clone body.
I don’t necessarily see this being contradictory to resurrection nor the concept of a soul. If every portion of the person’s neuroactivity is being replicated into a duplicate of their body and brain, it seems to me like that qualifies as a resurrection. In
Other words, I don’t think we need to know what exactly a soul is in order to say these people are being resurrected.
I mean, this is an easier pill for me to swallow than, say, marvel legitimizing heaven by showing Kurt in it pre resurrection (I don’t not believe in heaven, I just found that more… consequential?…. Than hickman’s version. One is saying heaven is real and where good souls go; the other is saying we don’t really know what a soul is, but we are capable of copying and reproducing it).
In sum, I’d say it’s “just cloning”
Until they are “uploaded with their data”. After the upload, it’s more than a clone, it’s no different than their original self.[/QUOTE]
But in the Marvel universe a soul is something that objectively exists... mystics' souls can leave their bodies, take a trip around, get into fights, possess other bodies and go back to their own body; if somebody sells their soul to Mephisto or another demon, you can go to Hell, fight against fiends, rescue the soul and shove it into a brand new clone body or a magical golem or whatever...
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[QUOTE=Habis;5912198]
But in the Marvel universe a soul is something that objectively exists... mystics' souls can leave their bodies, take a trip around, get into fights, possess other bodies and go back to their own body; if somebody sells their soul to Mephisto or another demon, you can go to Hell, fight against fiends, rescue the soul and shove it into a brand new clone body or a magical golem or whatever...[/QUOTE]
The lore regarding souls in the Marvel universe isn't exactly consistent though.
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Why we debating this Marvel said today the process is cloning end of story is what it is.
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[QUOTE=Journey;5912249]Why we debating this Marvel said today the process is cloning end of story is what it is.[/QUOTE]
I genuinely want to know the context for this.
EDIT: Nevermind, found it.
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Krakoa is garbage and that video today is another example.
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[QUOTE=Journey;5912249]Why we debating this Marvel said today the process is cloning end of story is what it is.[/QUOTE]
Oh really? can you give the link? ***just saw it
Kinda of funny all this discussion just to Marvel say it is clones
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So if it's just cloning, why do they need reality warpers and such?
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[QUOTE=LordUltimus;5912461]So if it's just cloning, why do they need reality warpers and such?[/QUOTE]
So mutants can feel special.
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The clone thing in this case actually simplifies it. Once it's streamlined it'll probably be like your essence or id is in the waiting room which is on the astral plane and your basically just waiting for your body to be cloned and aged up. I hope at some point we actually get to see the waiting room, like imagine Emma sisters who know she is way at the end of the queue bargaining with other people in the waiting room to get her out sooner or put in a word for her. lol
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I don't care what a dubiously-canon promotional video says. Based on in-universe lore and out-of-universe intentions by the writers, the resurrections are fully legit. Their bodies are cloned, but they're the same people.
The video probably explained things the way they did to simplify the process. Albeit, the way they emphasized cloning over its actual resurrection-ness is strange.
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[QUOTE=Rift;5912502]I don't care what a dubiously-canon promotional video says. Based on in-universe lore and out-of-universe intentions by the writers, the resurrections are fully legit. Their bodies are cloned, but they're the same people.
The video probably explained things the way they did to simplify the process. Albeit, the way they emphasized cloning over its actual resurrection-ness is strange.[/QUOTE]
Exactly this. But i didn't expect there to be a one/one translation of the process across other medias. sometimes simple is the best way to go.
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It still technically counts as cloning, yall.