[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627245]I have read their books. I took AA History classes in college as a sociology double-major. "Black Paragon" refers to the role of DC's most prominent black exemplar.[/QUOTE]
And you learnt to equate black with confederate flag...
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627271]Black-ish is specifically a commentary on upper middle-class blacks who deal with not fitting old stereotypes. Hence, black-ish. The company's most prominent black character shouldn't be a character limited from the outset to addressing racial issues, any more than (White) Superman or (White) Batman are.[/QUOTE]
Being a person of Any color comes with certain unavoidable expectations. The same is true for anyone that doesn't fit the majority. That's just a fact of life you have to face and if you don't, the majority will certainly remind you.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627248]He doesn't still produce black lightning. It was a solution that didn't stick. He has no in depth connection to magic, so it doesn't make sense anyway. It's an outdated name and always will be just like Yellow Claw. Giving him yellow claws doesn't solve the thing.
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Yellowclaw1.jpg/200px-Yellowclaw1.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Hahaha. Ok shark jumped. Enjoy
[QUOTE=iron chimp;4627297]And you learnt to equate black with confederate flag...[/QUOTE]
Nah, just said the logic was the same. You want to put it on the same level.
Taking the time to write out a dismissive response just shows you've run out of logical responses but want to save face btw.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627286]Have you seen "black lightning" in nature? It's not a science-based power, which was hinted at in Black Lightning Year One. It's just never been outright called that because some writers just write him as a metahuman. DC can't even figure out why he should have black lightning other than trying to make up for a stupid name.[/QUOTE]
Every power you read about is fictional but you want to address the fictionality of black lightning as a power? Ok. Cool.
[QUOTE=Iconic;4627307]Every power you read about is fictional but you want to address the fictionality of black lightning as a power? Ok. Cool.[/QUOTE]
Categorizing heroes as sci-fi vs fantasy is pretty central to telling stories in the medium.
How do we feel about Martian Manhunter? Is that cool...or nah? Legitimately curious.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627304]Nah, just said the logic was the same. You want to put it on the same level.
Taking the time to write out a dismissive response just shows you've run out of logical responses but want to save face btw.[/QUOTE]
Actually you equated a symbol of hatred with a qualifying distinction as if they were somehow the same, which shows your own flawed logic.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627234]Nah, it's been written about for decades. You just haven't been paying attention.[/QUOTE]
With everything else happening in the world, I definitely haven't! :)
No, I know some people take issue with the name, and I totally get why. But it doesn't seem like they're an overly large group. Some articles online compared to the (apparently successful) ratings for the show tell me that most people aren't pissed about this. Perhaps it annoys them a bit, as it does me, but it doesn't appear that many people are too up in arms over the name.
But like I said, I'd be fine if Jeff just went by "Lightning" from now on. Same with Canary (do most people even know there *is* such a thing as a black canary?) and Arrow.
[QUOTE]Did you know Google allows you to set a range of years for your searches? Like you can limit it to posts from 2008-2009, for example?[/QUOTE]
I'm a student, I did know that. Not sure why that's terribly relevant though?
[QUOTE=Iconic;4627317]How do we feel about Martian Manhunter? Is that cool...or nah? Legitimately curious.[/QUOTE]
I think it's a bad name, honestly. Too unwieldy, too long. It's descriptive, and it stands out, but not necessarily in a good way.
Since the Manhunter name is such a mess (how many have there been? And Kate's using it now anyway), perhaps just start calling him the Martian? Maybe. I dunno, sounds a little....species-ist? But really, everyone just calls him J'onn these days anyway so not much of an issue either way I suppose.
Short of literally race-swapping Clark, Bruce, or Diana's percieved ethnicities, there are NO heroes of color who can ever achieve Trinity status.
Because that status is not earned in the present or future. It is merely a recognition of the past: that those 3 were only superheroes at the time who survived in their own titles intact during the Atomic Age (1945-1956, usually) through the modern day for 8 straight decades as the same identity. No Black character can match that ... hell, no other WHITE characters can match that.
Not Flash, Not GL, Not Aquaman, Not Shazam, Not Robin, Not Captain America, Not Sub-Mariner, Not Spider-Man.
Nobody.
So the title of the thread is problematic for that reason.
However ... if the question was tweaked to read
"which Black DC character could eventually achieve A- list status with the least amount of roadblocks"?
Then you have a debate!
Black Lightning, Cyborg, and Vixen are DC's Black Trinity. They are not derivatives of older White characters like GL John Stewart is. Their powers do not overlap too much with the other Leaguers. And they can claim media exposure outside comic books.
But I'm going to throw in a name that is largely forgotten, but could, in the right hands, be a titanic hit.
Amazing Man.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/eb/AllStarSquadron_23.jpg/250px-AllStarSquadron_23.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/1c/74/fa/1c74fad05a21738a741637a6256a4dff.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/a/af/Amazing_Man_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100206051434[/IMG]
His costume and headgear are magnificently unique (who rocks Gold and Green like that?).
He'd need some updating, sure. No trunks on the outside, and maybe his appearance doesn't change to match what he's touches (too Absorbing Man-ish), and his backstory needs major revising.
But he's (I believe) a wholly owned DC property unlike Black Lightning, not a woman (industry and audience are both way more sexist than either can admit) like Vixen, and doesn't have the burden of being mislabeled as a castrated Black man (or being too tied to a well-known lesser team like the Teen Titans) like Cyborg.
Down side: he may as well be a new character as he doesn't have anything of his own: no supporting cast, no rogues gallery, no settings, not much stories to build off of.
I'd love it if some talented creative with clout actually wanted to take a shot on Amazing Man.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627304]Nah, just said the logic was the same. You want to put it on the same level.
Taking the time to write out a dismissive response just shows you've run out of logical responses but want to save face btw.[/QUOTE]
Letting past wrongs go unaddressed is the logic. You keep putting those on the same level. You shouldn't speed because your car can hurt people. You shouldn't go on a mass shooting because you could hurt people. Same logic, different levels. See? There's a reason that criminal punishments vary in severity.
At the end of the day, saying Black Lightning's name is a product of the time follows the same problematic logic of saying something was okay because of the time. It's not okay now, and it wasn't okay then.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4627358]I think it's a bad name, honestly. Too unwieldy, too long. It's descriptive, and it stands out, but not necessarily in a good way.
Since the Manhunter name is such a mess (how many have there been? And Kate's using it now anyway), perhaps just start calling him the Martian? Maybe. I dunno, sounds a little....species-ist? But really, everyone just calls him J'onn these days anyway so not much of an issue either way I suppose.[/QUOTE]
The name was revealed to be related to the Manhunters who operated for the Guardians of the universe. Saying Martian Manhunter is like saying Human Green Lantern. Also, Martians aren't real.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4627348]With everything else happening in the world, I definitely haven't! :)
No, I know some people take issue with the name, and I totally get why. But it doesn't seem like they're an overly large group. Some articles online compared to the (apparently successful) ratings for the show tell me that most people aren't pissed about this. Perhaps it annoys them a bit, as it does me, but it doesn't appear that many people are too up in arms over the name.
But like I said, I'd be fine if Jeff just went by "Lightning" from now on. Same with Canary (do most people even know there *is* such a thing as a black canary?) and Arrow.
I'm a student, I did know that. Not sure why that's terribly relevant though?[/QUOTE]
Lightning is a really iconic name choice for a character who wields lightning. Creative.
Also, the thing about searches was because you dismissed the naming issue as something recognized by 2 or 3 people on this thread when it's been talked about forever.
Ratings isn't a justification btw. I'm sure crowds were okay with Gone in the Wind back in the day.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;4627304]Nah, just said the logic was the same. [/QUOTE]
It's not the same, though. Black Americans were proud to have these characters identified as such back in the '70s, but can that be said of the Confederacy at any time?
Having said that, it doesn't make sense to have all of those Black-this and Black-that from that era today. Still, one of them could be alright with the proper reasoning. Watching [I]Black Lightning[/I] on TV, it doesn't feel wrong to me.