-
I am rather happy to read the various differences of opinion here. Folks should see the world differently.
The varied views expressed here should serve that the skies truly are the limit with these characters.
These characters can function in just about any setting.
The writers and editors just have to be creative.
But yeah....Vykin should be used way more.
A Kirby creation who is also a god.
Why no one thought to link up Cyborg with Vykin shows how creatively sterile DC is.
-
I dunno, I feel like we kinda dodged a bullet with that one. I'm not the biggest fan of the Forever People; they're my least favorite aspect of the Fourth World, but I feel like connecting Vic and Vykin.....I mean, why? Just because they're black? That's pretty thin ground. And as much as I love how Vic is now connected to the New Gods, I don't want that connection to go too deep; Cyborg should be a property that can stand on his own and I don't want him too dependent on another IP. Having a Mother Box for a heart is connection enough, I think; any more and we might as well fold Vic into the New Gods franchise......and gods knows Vic has enough struggles with DC management without that being added in!
-
I honestly think connecting Victor to the New Gods was pointless. Very little of value has actually been done with it and the New Gods are mostly known for their connection to Superman or even Wonder Woman anyway. It also gives the implication he can't stand on his own without mooching off some other franchise. Ironically, his original origin was probably the best to build off a solo adventure from and wasn't reliant on other superheroes.
-
[QUOTE=Ascended;4629739]I dunno, I feel like we kinda dodged a bullet with that one. I'm not the biggest fan of the Forever People; they're my least favorite aspect of the Fourth World, but I feel like connecting Vic and Vykin.....I mean, why? Just because they're black? That's pretty thin ground. And as much as I love how Vic is now connected to the New Gods, I don't want that connection to go too deep; Cyborg should be a property that can stand on his own and I don't want him too dependent on another IP. Having a Mother Box for a heart is connection enough, I think; any more and we might as well fold Vic into the New Gods franchise......and gods knows Vic has enough struggles with DC management without that being added in![/QUOTE]
I was looking at the Mother Box connection, mostly. A good revamp can revitalize a dead in the water character or comic (X-Men & Green Arrow come to mind). I think Vykin should be explored in other settings, away from the Forever People.
Both Vykin & Victor are transhuman. Both deal with advanced science. Both are tied to creative bankrupt franchises. Both got that "V" thing going, lol.
I think they could work in a one-shot story, as a more serious but still weird duo like Booster Gold & Blue Beetle.
Both being black would actually be at the bottom of the list, imo. But the fact that they are more than human, and black, is interesting.
-
John Stewart
Cyborg
Black lightning
-
John Stewart (Green Lantern) or Jefferson Pierce (Black Lightning), I think.
-
[QUOTE=Agent Z;4629845]I honestly think connecting Victor to the New Gods was pointless. Very little of value has actually been done with it and the New Gods are mostly known for their connection to Superman or even Wonder Woman anyway. It also gives the implication he can't stand on his own without mooching off some other franchise. Ironically, his original origin was probably the best to build off a solo adventure from and wasn't reliant on other superheroes.[/QUOTE]
They definitely haven't capitalized on it like they should've. This upgrade should've made Vic one of the most powerful beings in the universe, but they haven't done much with it. As per usual, DC wastes its best ideas.
However, I think Vic can still stand on his own even with this minor connection. Ultimately, as far as Vic's solo potential goes, this is just saying "some of his tech is alien in nature." You don't really need to get any closer to the New Gods than that, but it's available if you want. You could do a dozen different stories with no ties to the Fourth World, then bring in the Evil Factory and have it not feel like its coming out of nowhere.
The New Gods, I think, work in this capacity because they've got ties to so many franchises yet still stand apart. You can put a little Fourth World into Superman, Wonder Woman, GL, etc., without any franchise losing it's independence and I think Vic works along the same lines.
[QUOTE=Anthony Shaw;4629874]I was looking at the Mother Box connection, mostly. A good revamp can revitalize a dead in the water character or comic (X-Men & Green Arrow come to mind). I think Vykin should be explored in other settings, away from the Forever People.
Both Vykin & Victor are transhuman. Both deal with advanced science. Both are tied to creative bankrupt franchises. Both got that "V" thing going, lol.
I think they could work in a one-shot story, as a more serious but still weird duo like Booster Gold & Blue Beetle.
Both being black would actually be at the bottom of the list, imo. But the fact that they are more than human, and black, is interesting.[/QUOTE]
Well, put like that I can see it. And it wouldn't be the worst thing in my mind to remove Vykin from the Forever People and see what could be done with him. The only good thing about that group is the Infinity Man (and I suppose it could be interesting to see how Vic interacts with that).
-
Just gonna repost what I said in the “breakout character thread:
It could have been Cyborg but DC screwed that up royally. Obviously he was given a huge promotion as a Justice League founder. Yeah, he started out as a mopey tragic hero but his character progression/story arc should have lead him to a point where he was a fun wish fulfillment character like one of the Trinity. Where he was as a character in the Walker/Reis run should have happened years before. But once Cyborg was finally given a cool character design and seemed to actually enjoy his powers, he was sent back to square one and was once again the tragic freak superhero.
Still blows my mind that DC had a character design that looked this cool and threw it away for some generic armor.
[img]https://i1.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/CYBORG.01.cover_.v02.600-COLOR-Blue.jpg[/img]
-
-
Cyborg as Frankenstein's Monster seems to be DC's go-to, even though they could've taken an alternate approach.
[img]https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/7/74889/2528776-cyborg_redesign_jr.jpg[/img]
In terms of his role on an expanded Trinity, he'll still be in Batman's shadow. Batman is DC's highest seller and needs something to do. If he's not the tech guy, he's limited to giving orders, making his team mates look incompetent. On Johns's Justice League run, all he did was serve as the League's projector and teleportation device. Since he's mostly machine, he also gets punked out in a way his team mates aren't. You can't mangle other heroes up because it'd get gore-y, but you can with Cyborg, which is why he might as well be made of paper.
-
I think the right answer, at least at this juncture in time, believe it or not, is Naomi.
First, we need to dispel this myth that you have to be around for 50 years to matter. That's dumb comic book fan logic that ultimately makes no sense. Tell that to franchises like Harry Potter, Twilight, and Hunger Games. They leapfrogged way over the majority of DC properties and they didn't need to be around forever to do it. All that really matters is you need hits.
Fascinatingly, Naomi's comic actually did very well in the direct market. Considering she's a brand new character and a black female on top of that, that is a HUGE success that DC will build from if they're at all intelligent.
What's more, the market is currently looking for more prominent black and/or black mixed females. Unfortunately, the shot callers are race bending at alarming rates to meet this. Here is a completely original character that doesn't need to be race bent.
She also has one of the most powerful people in comics backing her, who has a vested interest in her success. This matters A LOT. No one behind the scenes gives two poops about John Stewart or Vixen, certainly no one that can make a difference for them.
Naomi pretty much has everything working for her right now, much more so than any other black character at DC. She's proven there's an audience that wants to read her. She has a very powerful figure behind her that will no doubt give her the push she needs, and she's pretty close to being her own original character. In my view, she's already gotten over the likes of John Stewart and certainly Vixen. DC and Bendis just have to keep on doing what they're doing and building off their success with her.
-
[QUOTE=Vordan;4628979]
The problem Stewart faces now is that Johns has redefined the GL mythos and they all revolve around Hal. Hal was at the center of the War of Light and Blackest Night and he’s got the personal rivalry with Sinestro.[/QUOTE]
That is the biggest problem for Stewart, but I think that problem is still a smaller obstacle than all the other black heroes face. With having to build up a top tier franchise from the ground up. Since there will always be a GL book and DC puts fairly good creative teams on it routinely. So the path for Stewart to reach that trinity level is a lot shorter.
[QUOTE=Vordan;4628979]Honestly Mr. Terrific is doing a pretty good job of leading the not!F4, I hope DC will allow him to keep that role. He could feasibly stand a chance if DC let’s Yang keep building him and the other Terrifics up. Vixen I fully believe has the potential but she needs a push. Put her on the JL, give her a mini (or preferably a Black Label book). She’s pretty much DC’s most prominent black heroine by default since there are so few black women heroes at DC in general, and Naomi is a newcomer.[/QUOTE]
Vixen probably is one of the heroes with the most room to grow given her uniqueness as a black female hero, which are rare at DC. They need to use her in smart ways. Like giving her a role consistently on big team books, she should be a full fledged JL member (DC's use and structuring of their JL is so frustrating), giving her a solo book or a mini series at the right time, and also she needs a marquee romance. A major romance with a very popular character is a way to increase a character's popularity. Have to be careful how they go about it.
-
[QUOTE=Vampire Savior;4630171]I think the right answer, at least at this juncture in time, believe it or not, is Naomi.[/QUOTE]
She doesn't have to be around 50 years, no, but if we're talking top-end, A++ levels, she needs a whole lot of everything; rogues, setting, love interest (she can maybe skip this part but it does seem important in the long-term), blah blah blah. Building her up as an IP, and doing it right, is going to take time. And until she's got all the same toys as the other A++ characters, she's not going to equal them.
But I agree about the rest. If Bendis and DC can keep on keeping on, and really give her a solid, consistent push (instead of getting bored and moving on) she could become a serious, big-time player. Five to ten years, we might be talking about the old days when Superman or Flash or Lantern got to save the day in JLA all the time instead of Naomi. :D
-
[QUOTE=Robotman;4630117]Just gonna repost what I said in the “breakout character thread:
It could have been Cyborg but DC screwed that up royally. Obviously he was given a huge promotion as a Justice League founder. Yeah, he started out as a mopey tragic hero but his character progression/story arc should have lead him to a point where he was a fun wish fulfillment character like one of the Trinity. Where he was as a character in the Walker/Reis run should have happened years before. But once Cyborg was finally given a cool character design and seemed to actually enjoy his powers, he was sent back to square one and was once again the tragic freak superhero.
Still blows my mind that DC had a character design that looked this cool and threw it away for some generic armor.
[img]https://i1.wp.com/www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/CYBORG.01.cover_.v02.600-COLOR-Blue.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Man, that was all so disappointing. When they announced Reis was doing the art I thought "Finally! DC is getting serious about making Vic an A-list hero! Reis isn't someone they put on C-list books anymore!"
What ended up happening was so disgusting I almost quit DC all together. Seriously, how these guys, who're supposed to be not just business experts but top-end creative talents as well.....how they keep missing the ball with Vic (among many other characters) doesn't even surprise me anymore, it just pisses me off and makes me wonder why so many creative people on these forums are here on CBR instead of making comics, because DC could definitely do (and are doing) a lot worse than some of you people.
-
[QUOTE=Ascended;4629114]I agree that Naomi is too new to really belong in this poll, but give that girl some time. She could be the next big thing if DC doesn't screw it up.
As for her being a Superman character.....no, I dont think so. But I can see how it'd feel that way. Her origin has nothing to do with Clark at all, and his involvement in her story has been tangential at best. He happened to crash through her home town once. She then hunted him down for advice and help (and he left two minutes later, leaving Naomi with Bruce). I think the shadow of Superman looms pretty large, but only because he's the world's greatest hero and in the DCU *everybody* wants to know what he's doing and imagine they have more in common with him than they realize. And the parallel of both he and Naomi being adopted gets some discussion too, but if you pulled all the discussion about Superman out of the book, nothing changes. I think Naomi is far less a Superman character than she is just a new OG character who's book used Clark as an attention-getting guest star.[/QUOTE]
Well, according to solicits, Superman is going to be her mentor, so that's even more of a connection.