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[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;4980454]Bendis said so?
Also, he gave some techno babble excuse that plot devise didn't actually see the future but saw information and came to a likely conclusion. And since that conclusion wasn't 100% correct, according to Stark/the story, it should be completely ignored[/QUOTE]
Yeah everything Bendis is either hit or miss this was miss and a big one.
It wasn't even mentioned in [I]History of the Marvel Universe[/I] (2019), so that should tell you something.
[QUOTE=Noodle;4980247]I get that. But it was marketed as a line-wide event and impacted books other than what Hickman did while it was going on. If you were a Hickman fan and read what he did then, yeah, it had a point. If you didn't then not really. it could have just been another arc in the Avengers books he was doing and would have had the same outcome.
I mean, take the original Civil War. Did the outcome last forever? No. But it impacted the Marvel Universe for years with stuff like Cap being killed, Dark Reign, Marvel's "trinity" being split, etc. I don't see where Secret Wars did that.[/QUOTE]
Almost all of Marvel had different tie ins from Last Days to the ones inside Battlewotld.
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;4980454]Bendis said so?
Also, he gave some techno babble excuse that plot devise didn't actually see the future but saw information and came to a likely conclusion. And since that conclusion wasn't 100% correct, according to Stark/the story, it should be completely ignored[/QUOTE]
no, the issue 0 basiaclly said that guys like ulysses were "nothing new"
He'd basically lampshade criticisms and then carry on.
[QUOTE=Mr_E_88;4980449]Yeah, but it still doesn't change that Stark and Richards can be arrogant from sometimes. Civil War was one of the times that they were.[/QUOTE]
Civil war is far out of character. While these two are arrogant, civil war shouldn't be used against em
[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4980635]Civil war is far out of character. While these two are arrogant, civil war shouldn't be used against em[/QUOTE]
Let's agree to disagree.
[QUOTE=your_name_here;4980611]Almost all of Marvel had different tie ins from Last Days to the ones inside Battlewotld.[/QUOTE]
They had tie-ins but had no impact. They stopped everything, did a offworld mini, and then the books just resumed after with a shiny new #1 on the cover. Outside of Miles and Old Man Logan, all the books just continued as they were. It was no different than any other event where all the books randomly tie into it for no reason. There were no real ramifications to Secret Wars.
Civil War 2 was made to capitalize on the then Captain America movie "Civil War" which basically had nothing to do with this event. Marvel does this to this day where they will launch a product generally reflective of the then movie coming out or out at the time of release. A notable example of this was Back in Black over in the Spider-man books during Spider-man 3. So Civil War is basically a movie tie-in that happened to fall when Marvel would be putting out it's summer event comic. Civil War 2 was then handed over to Brian Michael Bendis for reasons that elude me but part of it likely had something to do with him asking for it as well as him writing Iron man at the time.
While the book was meant to be a tie-in for the movie and used to build up to Secret Empire, the book's real contribution was Riri Williams. Essentially Civil War 2 was necessary in order to take Tony Stark off the board so Bendis could hype up his new character. Riri following Civil War 2 would take over the Iron man book and would unfortunately remain that way largely up to when Bendis left. It was a movie tie-in and aside from corporate interests in the Inhumans and build up to the thing Marvel actually cared about was a vehicle for Riri's takeover of the book. While she isn't in it [I]that[/I] much it should be worth noting that the ending exists to set the stage for that book.
It ultimately wasn't necessary and aside from the brief dark age over in the Iron man books it's ultimately a harmless event. Partially setting the stage for Immortal Hulk but it's not required reading for it. I skipped out on a fair bit of Secret Empire because my then comic shop dumped my box for no reason so I largely sat that out. However I don't think Civil War 2 was even required reading for that either.
[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;4980419]Bill Foster got a hole blown in him by Clone Thor.
And honestly, I can't see 'Clone Thor' as an in character action for either Reed or Stark. I'm still stunned that only Pym was absolved of it[/QUOTE]
IIRC, Pym was cleared because it wasn't actually him, but a Skrull? How convenient. Nothing happened to Tony or Reed as far as I know. But no one cares, because it was Bill Foster...and Bill Lives Don't Matter, right? At least I think that's the message that Marvel is conveying. I mean if it's the one thing that we've learned in both Civil War I and Civil War II, if you are a derivative Black Marvel character, you're as good as dead when these civil war events are launched. Place your bets now on who gets killed off when they hatch Civil War III. My money is on Blue Marvel...because they only see him as a black Superman clone.
RIP Bill Foster. RIP War Machine. RIP Supreme Power Nighthawk; different event, but dead nonetheless.
[QUOTE=Noodle;4980662]They had tie-ins but had no impact. They stopped everything, did a offworld mini, and then the books just resumed after with a shiny new #1 on the cover. Outside of Miles and Old Man Logan, all the books just continued as they were. It was no different than any other event where all the books randomly tie into it for no reason. There were no real ramifications to Secret Wars.[/QUOTE]
That’s more on fault of editorial than it is Secret Wars.
[QUOTE=Ichijinijisanji;4980407]they wanted to destroy a planet... also i think tony was inverted morally around that time?
They ultimately didn't but I think because of misinformation steve kept chasing them regardless
Plus I think ragnarok acting out could be attributed to Criti-Noll who was a skrull replacing hank pym who worked on ragnarok.[/QUOTE]
How many inhabited planets did Tony and them destroy? Also agree with you on the skrull Pym sabotaging Clor. I don’t know if it was outright stated, but that’s what I took away as well.
[QUOTE=SuperiorIronman;4980693]While the book was meant to be a tie-in for the movie and used to build up to Secret Empire, the book's real contribution was Riri Williams. Essentially Civil War 2 was necessary in order to take Tony Stark off the board so Bendis could hype up his new character. Riri following Civil War 2 would take over the Iron man book and would unfortunately remain that way largely up to when Bendis left. It was a movie tie-in and aside from corporate interests in the Inhumans and build up to the thing Marvel actually cared about was a vehicle for Riri's takeover of the book. While she isn't in it [I]that[/I] much it should be worth noting that the ending exists to set the stage for that book.[/QUOTE]
I remember Riri showing up on Tony's side during the big fight for some reason and proceeding to do nothing in the actual battle but fly around...and then all the young heroes start singing her praises after said battle.
Bendis really did not do a great job introducing her.
[QUOTE=JudicatorPrime;4980717]IIRC, Pym was cleared because it wasn't actually him, but a Skrull? How convenient. Nothing happened to Tony or Reed as far as I know. But no one cares, because it was Bill Foster...and Bill Lives Don't Matter, right? At least I think that's the message that Marvel is conveying. I mean if it's the one thing that we've learned in both Civil War I and Civil War II, if you are a derivative Black Marvel character, you're as good as dead when these civil war events are launched. Place your bets now on who gets killed off when they hatch Civil War III. My money is on Blue Marvel...because they only see him as a black Superman clone.
RIP Bill Foster. RIP War Machine. RIP Supreme Power Nighthawk; different event, but dead nonetheless.[/QUOTE]
Why is black Superheroes getting horrifically injured/killed such a staple of Civil War stories?
[QUOTE=Orbus;4980070]Why did it have to be Clint Barton at all? There are other characters that are much more willing to use lethal force and it's not like Clint had even been in the story for more than a few panels at that point so it did come out of nowhere.[/QUOTE]
The news article about the Marvel summit was interesting but ultimately not illuminating because the need for secrecy at the time (this was before the event was released). They considered a number of characters both as the one who had the vision and the one who killed that hero. For example, they considered Johnny Storm in the Hulk's role, but rejected it because the charred corpses would be too graphic. Ultimately, they reached the idea of the Hulk and Bendis apparently immediately said that he had the perfect choice as the person who stops him. At the time, I assumed there was some connection between the characters but I really think it was just Bendis's continued odd take on the character.
That being said, I don't think it's inconsistent with how Bendis portrayed the character in the past as a consequence of Decimation. I just don't think it makes a ton of sense overall. But I do think Civil War II: The Accused, was a really good story that helped mitigate the main story.
[QUOTE=Tony Stark;4980739]How many inhabited planets did Tony and them destroy? Also agree with you on the skrull Pym sabotaging Clor. I don’t know if it was outright stated, but that’s what I took away as well.[/QUOTE]
0 inhabited planets
I think it was new avengers 21-23 I can't remember which, the illuminati tried to pull the trigger after they killed the justice league knock off of that earth and they all started crying about not having the strength to do it, and went back home, waiting for both universes to die
Of course Namor did it and went to Thanos and they formed the cabal and destroyed the planets anyway and then all of the illumnati blamed namor for doing it.... i don't know I think that sort of sums it up lol
[QUOTE=Frontier;4980759]Why is black Superheroes getting horrifically injured/killed such a staple of Civil War stories?[/QUOTE]
I don't know, but now when you put it that way, it's kind of disturbing. Marvel have really not thought through the mixed messages they're sending with these "civil war" events.