Chris Claremont's early 2000's Xtreme & Uncanny X-Men...

...is kinda bad.

Obviously as an avid collector of all things X one cannot overstate the enormous contribution Claremont has made to the mythos. He is the OG architect and I respect him tremendously for what he did to bring life to these characters that I love so much. However, that being said, I've recently been re-reading the Grant Morrison, Chuck Austen, Joss Whedon & Chris Claremont stuff from around 2000 till around 2005ish (getting near to House Of M), and while Austen clearly takes the win for the worst stuff at that time (clearly) I gotta say some of the Claremont stuff is pretty terrible too. Uncanny #455 to around #461, for example is just ...bad. Psylocke is resurrected outta nowhere, Rachel becomes a freakin' dinosaur person, Mojo comes back and turns our heroes into X-babies (again) and it just does not work for me. Xtreme X-Men was ok, but not great IMHO. As an Aussie I liked that one of the villains was named "Bogan", that was hilarious for me personally but overall Xtreme seemed a bit too silly, especially in comparison to other books at the time.

Am I alone in my thinking in regard to this period of Claremont's work?

Thanks,
-Odd Rödney.

[QUOTE=Odd Rödney;5153814][FONT=Georgia][COLOR="#000080"]...is kinda bad.

Obviously as an avid collector of all things X one cannot overstate the enormous contribution Claremont has made to the mythos. He is the OG architect and I respect him tremendously for what he did to bring life to these characters that I love so much. But that being said, I've recently been re-reading the Grant Morrison, Chuck Austen, Joss Whedon & Chris Claremont stuff from around 2000 till around 2005ish (getting near to House Of M), and while Austen clearly takes the win for the worst stuff at that time (clearly) I gotta say some of the Claremont stuff is pretty terrible too. Uncanny #455 to around #461, for example is just ...bad. Psylocke is resurrected outta nowhere, Rachel becomes a freakin' dinosaur person, Mojo comes back and turns our heroes into X-babies (again) and it just does not work for me. Xtreme X-Men was ok, but not great IMHO. As an Aussie I liked that one of the villains was named "Bogan", that was hilarious for me personally but overall Xtreme seemed a bit too silly, especially in comparison to other books at the time.

Am I alone in my thinking in regard to this period of Claremont's work?

Thanks,
-Odd Rödney.[/COLOR][/FONT][/QUOTE]

You're not. Unfortunately he also has an ENORMOUS cult that worship anything he puts on paper and God protect you if you point it out. TBH, even a lot of the stuff he wrote during his original run has not aged particularly well.

Grey's End was Claremont's doing too. That was some bull.

I loved X-Treme and Reloaded.

X-Treme was a greatly paired with Morrison's New X-Men and felt like a mix of classic with Modern. I love Larocca's art. The cast is SOLID: Storm, Bishop, Sage, Rogue, Gambit, and Cannonball. I liked Reloaded too but it did loose it's steam.

I agree with most of the OP except for Dino Rachel. That was[I] inspired[/I].

It was fine, but it wasn't great. It read very much like Claremont repackaging some of his previous x-work without really giving anything new, kind of self indulgent storytelling that ignored a lot of character progress from when he wasn't on the books. Even Bogan was just Shadow King with the serial numbers filed off. The best part of the run was Larocca's great pre-tracing style and Liquid colors.

X-treme was fine.

CC didn't go off the deep end until Forever imo.

[QUOTE=ChronoRogue;5153939]X-treme was fine.

CC didn't go off the deep end until Forever imo.[/QUOTE]

Forever is the book you want to point to whenever anybody suggests Claremont be allowed to do whatever he wants.

I'm sure marvel would have no problem with him killing off Ironman, Wolverine, and Black panther and replacing them with three different Storms.

As far as I’m concerned, the only eras of Claremont’s Reloaded era that are worth being acknowledged are “End of Grey’s” and that Emma/Rachel team up in Hong Kong in UXM #452-454 (Despite how all over the place that Main Hellfire Club storyline was). Chris Bachalo and guest artist Andy Park’s work those storylines was top notch.

His stuff around the 12/Revolution or whatever was worse.

I found most of everything after Operation Zero Tolerance was yuck. O:ZT gave us the fun Iceman/Marrow/CeCe team up and our boy Maggott. The Seagle/Kelly run was underrated and ruined by editorial apparently. But in general everything in that era stunk.

Uncanny was a mess with Casey then Austen. It felt like decent ideas but really bad execution and the art was yuck too.

then Morrison put out the most overrated crap. it never felt like X-Men and did long lasting damage.

X-Treme was okay .... it was pretty much the best title by default.

[QUOTE=Dante Milton;5153900]It was fine, but it wasn't great. It read very much like Claremont repackaging some of his previous x-work without really giving anything new, kind of self indulgent storytelling that ignored a lot of character progress from when he wasn't on the books. Even Bogan was just Shadow King with the serial numbers filed off. The best part of the run was Larocca's great pre-tracing style and Liquid colors.[/QUOTE]

Exactatiously this.
Claremont is the king of rehash and repackaging. And for all that he's good at presenting great characterisation on the page...his characters themselves (with the exception of a very few) very rarely grow and develop beyond a certain point.

[QUOTE=NewMutant;5153884]I loved X-Treme and Reloaded.

X-Treme was a greatly paired with Morrison's New X-Men and felt like a mix of classic with Modern. I love Larocca's art. The cast is SOLID: Storm, Bishop, Sage, Rogue, Gambit, and Cannonball. I liked Reloaded too but it did loose it's steam.[/QUOTE]

Xtreme XMen was dope. I love Larocca’s art. Their costumes were dope. I just wished he fleshed out Destiny’s diaries more. It felt it could have had a more compelling conclusion. Bogan was an under utilized villian. I’d love to see him make a comeback and give Sebastian Shaw a run for his money lol

I loved X-Treme and liked his Reload. The real stinkers were X-Men Forever/New Excalibur/New Exiles.

Yeah, CC has been pretty uneven in his later years.

That said, I am really partial to X-Treme and the Destiny's Diaries plot. It was a cast that played right into my short list of favorite characters and had some really good character moments despite some fairly wonky subplots and details.

It would be interesting if Hickman incorporates Destiny’s diaries to HoX/pox. Imagine if Mystique could use them to be a step ahead xavier and magneto. Destiny being involved long after she is dead.