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[QUOTE=dshipp17;157179]As my full statement says, you're confusing lust with love; I agree that she cannot have lust for Dr. Psycho or Hades, but she can bypass that to form deep affection, by simply getting to know Dr. Psycho better; I'm actually talking about bypassing the lust stage to develop real love. [/QUOTE]
Nope, you were saying that she should pretend to have romantic feelings for Dr Psycho even if she doesn't have them. And when I am saying 'romantic feelings', I don't mean lust. She can even try to be his friend, change him, even falling in love with him with time. But starting with pretending this, no.
[QUOTE]
You're out of luck than, because Wonder Woman has demonstrated her capacity for lust in having the hots for Batman, Superman, and Steve Trevor; I'd like to see if she has the capacity for love and not just lust.[/QUOTE]
So, since the guys she happened to be with were handsome, she didn't love them but she just proved lust for them? Is this your conclusion? I'm sure there are many other handsome heroes out there she can have the hots for, why wasn't she paired with them too, at this point?
I don't find the necessity to see her paired with Dr Psycho so that it can be 'demonstrated' that Wonder Woman is not so shallow, because in no way I have had that impression so far, she has already demonstrated not to be so.
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I've always like the idea of Dr. Psycho as a counterpoint to Diana, but I don't think he's reached his full potential yet. He's got the potential to be up there with Ares, Circe or Cheetah.
Perez' take was one diabolical dude. So off the map that he was compelling. I liked Rucka's version too. He works better for me when he's not used for comic relief. I haven't really read his DCnU 52 appearances yet. Can't say his design appeals me, but he may be sick and twisted and I just don't know it.
To me, Psycho gives Joker a run for his money in inducing terror.
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[QUOTE=BlackFeath;157271]Nope, you were saying that she should pretend to have romantic feelings for Dr Psycho even if she doesn't have them. And when I am saying 'romantic feelings', I don't mean lust. She can even try to be his friend, change him, even falling in love with him with time. But starting with pretending this, no.
So, since the guys she happened to be with were handsome, she didn't love them but she just proved lust for them? Is this your conclusion? I'm sure there are many other handsome heroes out there she can have the hots for, why wasn't she paired with them too, at this point?
I don't find the necessity to see her paired with Dr Psycho so that it can be 'demonstrated' that Wonder Woman is not so shallow, because in no way I have had that impression so far, she has already demonstrated not to be so.[/QUOTE]
Just saying, a loving relationship has to start somewhere, even with pretending.
And it is a sign that everyone she's written to be in love with happens to be handsome. Surely, she cannot be with every handsome hero and the same time, but being with a handsome hero does say a lot about a potentially shallow character. However, revelations are coming all of the time and it might occur that she's been with all of the handsome heroes.
I'm disputing the notion that she claims to love everyone, but hasn't actually demonstrated that she loves everyone.
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[QUOTE=WonderScott;163248]I've always like the idea of Dr. Psycho as a counterpoint to Diana, but I don't think he's reached his full potential yet. He's got the potential to be up there with Ares, Circe or Cheetah.
Perez' take was one diabolical dude. So off the map that he was compelling. I liked Rucka's version too. He works better for me when he's not used for comic relief. I haven't really read his DCnU 52 appearances yet. Can't say his design appeals me, but he may be sick and twisted and I just don't know it.
To me, Psycho gives Joker a run for his money in inducing terror.[/QUOTE]
I agree, Dr. Psycho needs a lot more development, as a character, in the Wonder Woman book.
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[QUOTE=dshipp17;241382]Just saying, a loving relationship has to start somewhere, even with pretending.[/QUOTE]
No. Nonono. It really should not ever under any condition start at all.
[QUOTE]I'm disputing the notion that she claims to love everyone, but hasn't actually demonstrated that she loves everyone.[/QUOTE]So, you now think she has demonstrated that she loves everyone?
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[QUOTE=Carabas;241864]No. Nonono. It really should not ever under any condition start at all.
So, you now think she has demonstrated that she loves everyone?[/QUOTE]
You're saying that love shouldn't start at any point at all between people?
I think Wonder Woman has demonstrated the ability to love most women (e.g. thinking back to one of the earlier issues where she was very angry with Hera) and handsome men, in the New 52. But, those groups do not demonstrate an ability to love everyone. Post crisis Wonder Woman demonstrated the ability to love all women and handsome men. Pre-crisis Wonder Woman demonstrated the ability to love everyone. I've been pondering this topic for so long because I'm still a bit confused about whether she has the same character traits as pre-crisis Wonder Woman who just hasn't been written to demonstrate her ability to love everyone, like pre-crisis Wonder Woman was written, but the showing with Hades was a little disappointing, mainly because of the way the situation was scripted in the closing moments. Appearances by Dr. Psycho is desperately needed in such an effort. As such, inconclusively speaking, post crisis Wonder Woman is leaning towards a somewhat shallow character who fans have placed the virtual attribute of love; as such, Wonder Woman's capacity to love doesn't seem that unique from any other woman.
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[QUOTE=dshipp17;247587]You're saying that love shouldn't start at any point at all between people?[/QUOTE]
A loving relationship should not under any means start between Psycho and, well, anybody. Unles it's one of those more weird and creepy Elseworlds.
Psycho being an ugly little troll is not actually a factor in this.
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[QUOTE=Dr. Poison;138399]I like Dr. Psycho but I think he needs a little work to solidify his motivation. I really enjoyed his portrayal in "The Odyssey." In fact, that the best best thing about the JMS/Hester tale.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, issue #609 was amazing...
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[QUOTE=Carabas;247975]A loving relationship should not under any means start between Psycho and, well, anybody. Unles it's one of those more weird and creepy Elseworlds.
Psycho being an ugly little troll is not actually a factor in this.[/QUOTE]
Why shouldn't Dr. Psycho have the pleasure of a loving relationship? Why aren't you trying to figure out a way to empathize with his background? Any loving relationship with Dr. Psycho should definitely be made cannon, you just need to be able to work on trying to empathize with Dr. Psycho. Try creating a list of things that you could think of to empathize with Dr. Psycho; how about a list of issues associated with Dr. Psycho? How can we than take that list and develop Dr. Psycho as a recurring character?
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I liked Dr Psycho in his golden age appearances. His ectoplasm powers were really interesting. I think i prefer him when he sort of left his victims dazed as opposed to the post crisis version that was a lot more explicitly violent. Im not sure what it is but I think it was a more compelling way to handle him. His newer telepathic powers arent as interesting but I think if they gave him some specific mark or way he used him he'd stand out a lot more.
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A short guy who hypnotizes people, reminds me of the Mad Hatter, the Batman villain not the AiW one. I think he should a bit more monsterous personality wise, sexist, racist, rapist, cannibal, torture fetishist, and why not a Nazi as well just the complete opposite of Wonder Woman. Also have him be a therapist to powerful people like businessman, politicians, royalty who he blackmails and hypnotizes into doing what he wants but very secretly.
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[QUOTE=Mutant God;2275546]A short guy who hypnotizes people, reminds me of the Mad Hatter, the Batman villain not the AiW one. I think he should a bit more monsterous personality wise, sexist, racist, rapist, cannibal, torture fetishist, and why not a Nazi as well just the complete opposite of Wonder Woman. Also have him be a therapist to powerful people like businessman, politicians, royalty who he blackmails and hypnotizes into doing what he wants but very secretly.[/QUOTE]
The Mad Hatter is an Alice In Wonderland fan who uses technology for what he does.
Doctor Psycho already is a psychic monster and a serial rapist, and there' not really much more aweful you can make him while still having him not be a complete charicature of a cartoon villain.
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I wish that Steve Trevor and Doctor Psycho were somehow [I]related,[/I] ..like [B]cousins.[/B]
I've often asked myself why Steve Trevor needs to believe in 'angels'. Well...what if young Steve spent a summer, being tortured in his cousin Edgar's sub-basement? What if, during Steve's college years, he'd been locked in there for months, before some miracle (maybe Marla) freed him? What if Steve and Marla (prior to her marriage to Psycho) had been lovers, once, before his mad cousin, Psycho, avenged his jealous pride, by abducting and torturing Steve? Or-rr...what if Steve's shameful, tragic torture by Psycho had been the result of a dalliance he'd had with his cousin Edgar's bride-to-be?
Imagine Doctor Psycho's torture of him being so sordid, twisted and devastating that Steve had somehow blocked it out ..and is only now beginning to remember it! How would Steve ever tell Diana?
Steve Trevor and Doctor Psycho are such polar opposites of traditional masculine expression that this kind of story would almost write itself. Imagine Steve having to explain how he and Edgar Cizko somehow fell from the same rotting family tree. That would be [B]creepy.[/B]
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[QUOTE=Mel Dyer;2275797]I wish that Steve Trevor and Doctor Psycho were somehow [I]related,[/I] ..like [B]cousins.[/B]
I've often asked myself why Steve Trevor needs to believe in 'angels'. Well...what if young Steve spent a summer, being tortured in his cousin Edgar's sub-basement? What if, during Steve's college years, he'd been locked in there for months, before some miracle (maybe Marla) freed him? What if Steve and Marla (prior to her marriage to Psycho) had been lovers, once, before his mad cousin, Psycho, avenged his jealous pride, by abducting and torturing Steve? Or-rr...what if Steve's shameful, tragic torture by Psycho had been the result of a dalliance he'd had with his cousin Edgar's bride-to-be?
Imagine Doctor Psycho's torture of him being so sordid, twisted and devastating that Steve had somehow blocked it out ..and is only now beginning to remember it! How would Steve ever tell Diana?
Steve Trevor and Doctor Psycho are such polar opposites of traditional masculine expression that this kind of story would almost write itself. Imagine Steve having to explain how he and Edgar Cizko somehow fell from the same rotting family tree. That would be [B]creepy.[/B][/QUOTE]
Why couldn't Steve just believe in angels because he wants to?
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[QUOTE=Agent Z;2275912]Why couldn't Steve just believe in angels because he wants to?[/QUOTE]
Children believe in angels, because they want to. Grown-ups believe in angels, because devils make them.
Anyway, Wonder Woman has never had the kind of grudge against Doctor Psycho that John Byrne gave her for Darkseid. Considering that Psycho's attacks on Wonder Woman are typically psychological, it's a shame that their enmity hasn't, to date, been driven by something deeply personal, game-changing thing that happened between them. I'm talking about something comparable to what the Joker did to Barbara Gordon (a major Bat-player), which basically ended her career as 'Batgirl' - Psycho needs a story, like that, and I think some earth-shattering, unforgivably sadistic attack on Steve could be the anchor for such a tale.
It doesn't have to put him in a wheelchair or a clock tower, but should be something that changes how Diana and Steve deal with Psycho, seemingly forever - something with the impact of a Hannibal Lecter crime. Anyway, ..the fact that two inherently opposing male archetypes, as Steve Trevor and Doctor Psycho, co-exist in her mythos present an opportunity for intriguing stories.
The [I]'Captain Wonder'[/I] incident is such a story, but, it could have been so much bigger and more devastating. Doctor Psycho stripped Steve Trevor naked, bolted him to a table, and violated this guy's mind - unbelievably dark tone for the WW comic! Just imagine how it might have played, if Captain Wonder had really hurt someone in the Wonderverse in a permanent way or murdered some insane number of people, ..and Steve, having been the catalyst for this tragic event, could never fully forgive himself for it. Imagine how Diana would go after Psycho, if Steve had been driven to a nervous breakdown or was left completely destroyed, psychologically - scarred for life.
We need to see that kind of Doctor Psycho story, and I think an attack on Steve, his archetypal opposite, could be the anchor for such a tale.
