I have to say. This was the closesed we have come to a realistic Superman upbringing.
In core with the character and fallible in a fitting way.
I liked it. If I wasn't burned out from too many origins I may had loved it too.
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I have to say. This was the closesed we have come to a realistic Superman upbringing.
In core with the character and fallible in a fitting way.
I liked it. If I wasn't burned out from too many origins I may had loved it too.
Well, this was a Frank Miller book all right. The overly-melodramatic narration, the violent moments, the borderline [B]rape[/B] scenes, everything is included.
That being said, I think I kinda liked it? I mean, there are lines that take me out of the story and I wish the rape thing was not included at all but I think the direction, characterization and overall intention seems on-point. It really reminds me of Byrne's Man of Steel origin in many ways, many of the best ways.
JRJR's art was pretty solid. Definitely a better effort than during his previous Superman run, much more polished and executed as a whole.
Yeah, there are awkward moments but there are also things to like here. Was expecting worse to be honest (although I SERIOUSLY wish that rape scene was not included, drop that already Miller!).
Wow... gang rape ? we don't even see that in Batman... And Batman supposed to be the dark one. Miller gets away with everything with his big name. If some new comer wrote rape in Superman, fans would castrate him... lol Is the gang rape graphic ? or is it something like sue dibney rape ? you don't even understand it with panels till some says that was rape... ?
The rape doesn't actually happen but is heavily implied that it was going to happen.
[QUOTE=Gurz;4415293]Wow... gang rape ? we don't even see that in Batman... And Batman supposed to be the dark one. Miller gets away with everything with his big name. If some new comer wrote rape in Superman, fans would castrate him... lol Is the gang rape graphic ? or is it something like sue dibney rape ? you don't even understand it with panels till some says that was rape... ?[/QUOTE]
There was a rape attempt that Clark stops.
Its not overly graphic. But rape itself is such a difficult subject to tackle which makes you feel awkward just reading it.
I loved it.
At first the dialog seemed too ham fisted and made me think I'd like an art book just letting the JR tell the story, but remember books haven't been written this way in a long time. As I kept going the words and the pictures started to flow and the really blended together. The art is absolutely wonderful and I think his best work as a story teller. After I was into it about 20-25% it really started pulling me in and I was submerged in Franks universe. The dialog started working with the story, it's not a simple repeat of his origin. It tackles problems like bulling the way I think you'd see in an 80s comic or TV show which makes sense given Franks age, it's the view of a completely different generation.
Clark came off great. It felt like he was learning as he starts off with solutions that fail and then goes at the problem in a different way, still showing great restraint. Also the fact that he isn't human comes across beautifully. I didn't think of him as a farm boy with superpowers so much as an alien who lives on a farm, I thought Frank did a good job of showing how he was as smart as he was strong, and the mental observations Clark made to stimuli and situations was fantastic.
I wish I could have read it all at once, but I'm sure I'll buy it as it comes out. Reading this book made me happy and gave me a sense of immersion I haven't got from reading a comic book in a long, long time.
Hey, this read like the Daredevil Man without Fear miniseries from JRJR and Miller. Well, except with Superman that is.
Why people feel the need to exploit every comic for their personal agenda is something I‘ll never understand.
There is no rape at all.
There is no imperialism in this issue.
It‘s a typical Miller story.
A very a realistic exploration of Clark in a modern context. It's a coming of age story and so much to like here. It might bug some traditionalists because they want a spotless , lilly white Smallville and a Clark with that fantasy upbringing where everything is more or less lovely and small towns have no troubles and its values will always hold true and have no troubling stuff happening. I am not American but America and the world is currently troubled by bullying, xenophobia, sexual harrassment/ assault and Miller tackles some of the things for his would hero to experience. Because these things do happen in America and the world, they happen to anyone and if you are Clark and Superman you are not going to only have to face punching robots and monsters etc. All these things can unfortunately happen to people you know and when it happens to someone you love, it is different feeling. I can understand if someone is a annoyed using a female to motivate a male...but I think the point was using someone Clark loves. The weight that carries and the rage he would feel. Is it awkward? Yes and it should be. It is not supposed to feel good when you see these things. The mature label allows Miller to address these things so people asking how...that is how. There is no gang rape. There is nothing shown. It is a scene that is menacing but what is threatened never happens. Fact there is nothing really graphic visually in this book. If it makes people uncomfortable fine but to say in a mature label...nothing like this should ever be even brought up about is sounds like censoring to me. I thought the whole Batman debacle absurd and DC caving to complaints because of a male appendage absurd. The mature line imo I expect to address mature themes.
Clark is a child from another world , with abilities different to us trying to adapt and get to see that I feel in a thoughtful and interesting way. I love that higher sensory perception he has and how it is shown. I have no clue where people are even complaining a baby is manipulative? There such bizarre exaggeration in some reviews I read this I was like wth are they on about? It is like nitpicking...trying to find a reason to complain. Too often its glossed over the feelings such a child would have and how difficult it would be for him to temper and subdue himself to fit into ours. But he learns lessons along the way. Clark is very smart and I like his attitude of wanting to learn about the world and see it and make a difference. Romita's art fits in with Millerverse but sharper and cleaner than Miller obviously. There are such beautiful colors here. I would have no problem giving this to even a teenager. I suspect they would understand and find this story very interesting and be able to relate too.
[QUOTE=dimo1;4415513]Hey, this read like the Daredevil Man without Fear miniseries from JRJR and Miller. Well, except with Superman that is.
Why people feel the need to exploit every comic for their personal agenda is something I‘ll never understand.
[B]There is no rape at all.
There is no imperialism in this issue.[/B]
It‘s a typical Miller story.[/QUOTE]
I am puzzled by these things too.
I am a female reader and I have no idea what these incorrect things going around. The implication of possibly being assaulted is there but it is cushioned in the scene where Lana is threatened for something else and ultimately nothing happens.
And the imperialism bit is so absurd. Nothing what so ever. If there is imperialism in anyone doing this...then Steve Trevor, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Wonder Woman AND Superman too... who have all served under the security forces must be imperialists.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415538]
And the imperialism bit is so absurd. Nothing what so ever. If there is imperialism in anyone doing this...then Steve Trevor, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Wonder Woman AND Superman too... who have all served under the security forces must be imperialists.[/QUOTE]
I'd also say that a military career is not in conflict at all with Clark having a blue-collar background. To me it kind of makes more sense than him going to a college or an expensive journalism school.
Superman Year One is way better than many reviews made it appear to be. It's sometimes weird and bizarre and old-fashioned, but also solid, inventive and evocative. And Clark does something heroic at last. I wouldn't be against it becoming canon, quite frankly (even if there are still two issues remaining, and maybe everything will go downhill from now on).
Extremely dull read for me after the countless Superman origin stories.
Miller is fond of Superman and has a unique view of him but that doesn't justify another retread of Smallville. He makes high school drama as melodramatic as possible, the Lana Lang stuff is exactly what you'd expect from Miller and the narration works but like... did even those differences (as weird and bad, in the case of Lana Lang, as they maybe) do we really need another Superman story about him discovering his powers?
I'm looking forward to Clark joining the Marines because whilst it's horribly contradictory to everything the character represents and an endorsement of a horrible institution it will at least be weird and probably entertaining.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415538]And the imperialism bit is so absurd. Nothing what so ever. If there is imperialism in anyone doing this...then Steve Trevor, Hal Jordan, John Stewart, Wonder Woman AND Superman too... who have all served under the security forces must be imperialists.[/QUOTE]
I mean they're not shown as imperialists but it does show comics have a fairly bad affinity for the US military, does it not? In a way that would be considered propaganda if these stories were published in China, Russia, Iran etc.
In this case if the idea is to have Clark go see the planet, as he says in this book, he should do it by taking a gap year or becoming a travelling freelance reporter like in Birthright. If he wants to see Panama he should travel there to meet the people, not visit by invading the country. All of this seems to be part of Miller's desire to make Superman as macho and alpha as possible, alongside making him a football star and hyping up how much of a ladies' man he is.
[QUOTE=Myskin;4415556]I'd also say that a military career is not in conflict at all with Clark having a blue-collar background. To me it kind of makes more sense than him going to a college or an expensive journalism school.
Superman Year One is way better than many reviews made it appear to be. It's sometimes weird and bizarre and old-fashioned, but also solid, inventive and evocative. And Clark does something heroic at last. I wouldn't be against it becoming canon, quite frankly (even if there are still two issues remaining, and maybe everything will go downhill from now on).[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
Miller makes people nervous. I get that. Fact I love he does that. Miller is one of the few writers we have left that is unapologetic and isn't going to jump every time the politically correct scream at him to be that way. Like him or hate him, that is how a creator should be. You write yr vision. People can be free to like to dislike. But for them to make this wild exaggerations is baffling to me. I am not an American and I come from a country where we had colonization and in no way did I feel Clark wanted to sign up to go show the savages the american way is the best way kind of a thing. All countries have military in today's world. People join up for so many reasons and some have good intentions and we know Clark is not going to stay in the forces but it will no doubt teach him the way the machinery and world works. An important aspect for Superman to understand. Because he and the League do do some policing of the world themselves eventually. This as you say does feel in line with his roots. And all these exaggerated complaints speaks of another agenda going on or a determination just to be negative everything Miller writes. Some things in this we have seen sure because it is an origin story but there are some real interesting ideas in this and being Black Label means Miller is in no way obliged to tread the same ground. Canon is still there for those who want a stereotypical farming childhood that is generally a saccharin blur then jump to Metropolis. This delves a little deeper in Clark's psyche.
I think the military is just a way for Clark to get out of the misery of Nowhere, Kansas. That's what the military is for a lot of people.
I'm not condoning it, I think there's a lot more interesting routes- just being clear. I prefer Clark get out of Kansas and just vaguely wander a lot for a while. Using his powers here and there. A guardian angel around the world.
[QUOTE=EsotericFailures;4415605]I mean they're not shown as imperialists but it does show comics have a fairly bad affinity for the US military, does it not? In a way that would be considered propaganda if these stories were published in China, Russia, Iran etc.
In this case if the idea is to have Clark go see the planet, as he says in this book, he should do it by taking a gap year or becoming a travelling freelance reporter like in Birthright. If he wants to see Panama he should travel there to meet the people, not visit by invading the country. All of this seems to be part of Miller's desire to make Superman as macho and alpha as possible, alongside making him a football star and hyping up how much of a ladies' man he is.[/QUOTE]
So why shoud Miller write what Waid already did? What is the point to rehash something when the point of this line is to explore something that could easily have been a choice for Clark? If this was WW2 Clark would have signed up very fast to go to fight Hitler. So we are prepared to taint all the people in all the world who decide well I will try to sign up for the forces? Seems people have no issues Superman helping military or him applauding veterans etc but a young guy just starting out...looking at a way to see the world and help...who says he has money and means to even do what you say? Part two has yet to come out and we don't know what Clark is going to see or learn. Who says he will even fit in with the navy? This is the nitpicking I am seeing again with no context.
I don't see anything of this ladies man that people keep complaining about either. No alpha maleness. Clark is with Lana and does not reap benefits of being ubercool stud that he is having ladies swooning and he is swaggering and he is macho. The guy did what any young kid might do...give into temptation one day to help win a game...and was told off by his dad. And let us not pretend this is the first time Clark played high school football knowing full well who he had powers.
Oh and all his powers do not come in at once. I like the way some manifest themselves.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415608]Exactly.
Miller makes people nervous. I get that. Fact I love he does that. Miller is one of the few writers we have left that is unapologetic and isn't going to jump every time the politically correct scream at him to be that way. Like him or hate him, that is how a creator should be. You write yr vision. People can be free to like to dislike. But for them to make this wild exaggerations is baffling to me. I am not an American and I come from a country where we had colonization and in no way did I feel Clark wanted to sign up to go show the savages the american way is the best way kind of a thing. All countries have military in today's world. People join up for so many reasons and some have good intentions and we know Clark is not going to stay in the forces but it will no doubt teach him the way the machinery and world works. An important aspect for Superman to understand. Because he and the League do do some policing of the world themselves eventually. This as you say does feel in line with his roots. And all these exaggerated complaints speaks of another agenda going on or a determination just to be negative everything Miller writes. Some things in this we have seen sure because it is an origin story but there are some real interesting ideas in this and being Black Label means Miller is in no way obliged to tread the same ground. Canon is still there for those who want a stereotypical farming childhood that is generally a saccharin blur then jump to Metropolis. This delves a little deeper in Clark's psyche.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
I'd also say that I really can't get into the specific criticism against military forces in a superhero book mostly for one reason: almost every major DC superhero is somehow related to a military background (and EVERY Marvel hero is, especially in their most internationally beloved incarnation, that is the Avengers movies). Superman has waved the American flag more than every other superhero for God's sake. Sometimes it goes wrong (Superman 27-28 by Tomasi could be one of the most horrifyingly grandiloquent Superman stories I've ever read) and sometimes they get it right. Miller got it right IMHO. It's not about the American country, or even the army as a patriotic institution. It's mostly about the experience, the self-discovery or even the purely physical experience as far as I can see. I was not born in the US and I am a convinced pacifist, but I am not blind to the human experience Miller is trying to tell. I see his point. This is basically a James Cameron Superman.
[QUOTE=Myskin;4415646]I agree.
I'd also say that I really can't get into the specific criticism against military forces in a superhero book mostly for one reason: almost every major DC superhero is somehow related to a military background (and EVERY Marvel hero is, especially in their most internationally beloved incarnation, that is the Avengers movies). Superman has waved the American flag more than every other superhero for God's sake. Sometimes it goes wrong (Superman 27-28 by Tomasi could be one of the most horrifyingly grandiloquent Superman stories I've ever read) and sometimes they get it right. Miller got it right IMHO. It's not about the American country, or even the army as a patriotic institution. It's mostly about the experience, the self-discovery or even the purely physical experience as far as I can see. I was not born in the US and I am a convinced pacifist, but I am not blind to the human experience Miller is trying to tell. I see his point. This is basically a James Cameron Superman.[/QUOTE]
Very well said.
Not my thing, but I "get" it. It is stronger than the saccharine crap we have been getting.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415618]So why shoud Miller write what Waid already did? What is the point to rehash something when the point of this line is to explore something that could easily have been a choice for Clark?[/QUOTE]
He shouldn't write what Waid did already but he shouldn't have written another Superman origin story period, especially one that begins in Smallville. Batman: Year One starts not with the Wayne's dying but with Bruce coming back to Gotham and the story is a lot better for it.
[QUOTE]If this was WW2 Clark would have signed up very fast to go to fight Hitler.[/QUOTE]
That's a totally different context to today. I'll wait for the next issue before giving a final judgement but I'm not optimistic
[QUOTE]I don't see anything of this ladies man that people keep complaining about either. No alpha maleness. Clark is with Lana and does not reap benefits of being ubercool stud that he is having ladies swooning and he is swaggering and he is macho. The guy did what any young kid might do...give into temptation one day to help win a game...and was told off by his dad. And let us not pretend this is the first time Clark played high school football knowing full well who he had powers.[/QUOTE]
Almost every Miller main character is an alpha-male type and he's fairly open about his support of traditional gender roles in fiction. It couldn't be more obvious in the way he writes the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship as Superman "taking" what is rightfully his in Wonder Woman (this is in Strikes Again I think). And this is the origin story of that version of Superman.
[QUOTE=Myskin;4415646]I agree.
I'd also say that I really can't get into the specific criticism against military forces in a superhero book mostly for one reason: almost every major DC superhero is somehow related to a military background (and EVERY Marvel hero is, especially in their most internationally beloved incarnation, that is the Avengers movies). Superman has waved the American flag more than every other superhero for God's sake. Sometimes it goes wrong (Superman 27-28 by Tomasi could be one of the most horrifyingly grandiloquent Superman stories I've ever read) and sometimes they get it right. Miller got it right IMHO. It's not about the American country, or even the army as a patriotic institution. It's mostly about the experience, the self-discovery or even the purely physical experience as far as I can see. I was not born in the US and I am a convinced pacifist, but I am not blind to the human experience Miller is trying to tell. I see his point. This is basically a James Cameron Superman.[/QUOTE]
Is that where Clark takes his kid on a road trip? The judgmental tone he uses and the applauding of of messed up wars etc when in fact being a journalist he should know how unfortunate those interventions were and should have been a bit more wiser/conscientious in what he told Jon? Oh yeah. And people were pretty happy with that who attacking this now.
The military, like the police and even the press ( who can manipulate the public) ,are responsible for many injustices and justice in this world. It does not make them as an institution bad. Nor the career. There was a time wanting to defend your country could be seen as the greatest honor for a man. Now we know it has too many shades of gray and politics etc have made such career seem not as noble? Which is kinda unfortunate because putting your life on the line for the right reasons to defend others is noble. It's the administration that makes it good or bad. So yeah...the whole idea of joining up, getting close to the oceans, knowing the world, helping...might seem even naive to us, but that is kinda the point too. What do you do in such a system, how do you operate in it, it is the things you see, the people who meet that shape you. Seems there is quite a bit to learn in this take. And meeting Lori this way sure as hell sounds better than the wheelchair thing. Plus Clark has read so many books and so forth...college would seem a bit redundant right now to him in a way...I fiured he 'd be bored as hell...lol. Lana kinda sowed the seed of a reporter too...so maybe it is this experience that drives him to the Daily Planet.
Speaking for myself, I think Clark joining the military has potential since is something that we haven't seen before, at least not in the comics. If properly executed this could bring a brand new vision for Superman. Then again, the concern of Miller's beliefs is always there but hopefully he knows better than push them into the character.
[QUOTE=EsotericFailures;4415694]He shouldn't write what Waid did already but he shouldn't have written another Superman origin story period, especially one that begins in Smallville. Batman: Year One starts not with the Wayne's dying but with Bruce coming back to Gotham and the story is a lot better for it.
That's a totally different context to today. I'll wait for the next issue before giving a final judgement but I'm not optimistic
Almost every Miller main character is an alpha-male type and he's fairly open about his support of traditional gender roles in fiction. It couldn't be more obvious in the way he writes the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship as Superman "taking" what is rightfully his in Wonder Woman (this is in Strikes Again I think). And this is the origin story of that version of Superman.[/QUOTE]
Isn't Superman that though? Alpha male? Aren't ALL the male heroes and if they do the superhero women well...they are alphas too. What is wrong with that? it is in the superhero dna. Also I don't know what the smww meeting will be like this time given it is so many years he wrote that. In DK3 Superman...is not some hyper-masculine character. He is a troubled, burdened character with responsibility. He was a father as well who can't be the father he needs to be because he had to hide his children from the authorities etc. Batman is hypermasculine. Batman was in the top alpha in DKR and DKSA.
[QUOTE=EsotericFailures;4415694]
Almost every Miller main character is an alpha-male type and he's fairly open about his support of traditional gender roles in fiction. It couldn't be more obvious in the way he writes the Superman/Wonder Woman relationship as Superman "taking" what is rightfully his in Wonder Woman (this is in Strikes Again I think). And this is the origin story of that version of Superman.[/QUOTE]
No offense meant, but this is a very simplistic view about this specific story and Miller in general.
Yes, Miller has written some very provocative things (and also things which simply weren't good), but also some of the most important books in the entire history of superheroics. Let's not repeat for the umpteenth time that his best days are behind him - everybody knows that at this point and no superhero writer could keep the same level of quality after 30+ years in the field (personally speaking, I am really surprised at how good Superman Year One is all things considered - he probably had a good editor). He has written over-the-top, provocative, military-oriented stories and story about anarchist, revolutionary heroes against the entire system. He has written stories about fatal women and stories about incredibly strong women. Have his detractors only read All Star Batman or also Elektra Assassin, the Martha Washington saga, Hard Boiled, Big Guy and the Rusty robot?
Miller is way more complex than a lot of people make him appear to be and - even in his worst stories - his voice is always unique, no matter how divisive it can be. After reading Superman Year One - the real book, I mean-, the overly exaggerated focus on RAPE!!! and IMPERIALISM!!! I've read in some reviews just seem a cautious attempt at jumping on the Politically Correct bandwagon.
My opinion:
"The best book of the day!!!! I love Millerverse very much, it is hard, cruel but also bittersweet but this SM is a sweet surprise!
Miller shows us a young Clark Kent conscious of his powers and a baby of superior intellect as we really expect of him. The importance of the Kents again is shown to us with a more firmly Pa Kent, who shows us all his outrage at injustices and how it is passed on to his son. The Kent always knew that Clark's fate was to defend this world, that his powers would serve this planet.
Clark leaving to serve in the Navy was also a natural step, something that many young people who wish to defend their country do. Voluntary military experience is usually very positive for them. Anyone who says that Clark went to the Navy to shoot innocent people or to reinforce any aspect of "imperialism" is a complete idiot! Something that made me curious was that Clark said the ocean called him ... I loved all the meanings implicit in it.
Clark is shown as an intelligent young man, aware of the human fragility that he deeply respects. His love for our planet and for our race is very clear, his notion that he is different and therefore his solitude too... is not something depressing and bordering on the self-pity that we are accustomed to see... he can feel solitary but does not let this feeling become depressive and, of course, he is not alone. He becomes the home leader of the school's "losers" group, a fact I really liked n, when necessary, took on the responsibility of defending them.
The romance between him and Lana is very beautiful, to see how he trusts her, their innocent love, how smart, brave and inspiring she is! I hate the idea of her "breaking the heart of the poor boy" for any foolish reason so that only Lois be the woman who understands him, I always thought Lana was the one who understood him the most. She loved him enough to leave him to fulfill his destiny. This Clark will not be a man-child emotionally dependent on a wife-mother because she will have been associated with great women from the beginning.
One more detail... it's a delight for my eyes and a chill for my heart to see Jor-El again, a true Jor-El good character, loving and concerned about his son. In times where this character has been played in the mud, has had his morale devastated and unrecognizable, to see a classic Jor-El, even if by a few pictures, is charming. I suppose this is the difference between a genius like Miller from other just plain writers ... he knows where to make the right changes and what changes to make to actually create a different and interesting story."
My opinion was published this morning on my twitter and I came here to share it with you, please forgive the little spoilers
[QUOTE=Myskin;4415723]No offense meant, but this is a very simplistic view about this specific story and Miller in general.
Yes, Miller has written some very provocative things (and also things which simply weren't good), but also some of the most important books in the entire history of superheroics. Let's not repeat for the umpteenth time that his best days are behind him - everybody knows that at this point and no superhero writer could keep the same level of quality after 30+ years in the field (personally speaking, I am really surprised at how good Superman Year One is all things considered - he probably had a good editor). He has written over-the-top, provocative, military-oriented stories and story about anarchist, revolutionary heroes against the entire system. He has written stories about fatal women and stories about incredibly strong women. Have his detractors only read All Star Batman or also Elektra Assassin, the Martha Washington saga, Hard Boiled, Big Guy and the Rusty robot?
Miller is way more complex than a lot of people make him appear to be and - even in his worst stories - his voice is always unique, no matter how divisive it can be. After reading Superman Year One - the real book, I mean-, the overly exaggerated focus on RAPE!!! and IMPERIALISM!!! I've read in some reviews just seem a cautious attempt at jumping on the Politically Correct bandwagon.[/QUOTE]
I go back to the DKSA...and I see that as so satirical and bombastic. It is humorous to me and the guy is psychic in a way when it comes to politics of the day. Miller's stuff tends to be controversial sure but he speaks a lot of truth. He doesn't cushioned in PC or the way some of the SJW like but what he discusses often is on the nose. Also the tone shifted from DKSA to DK3...having Azzarello perhaps or maybe Miller, like any good writer , has also grown? DK3 one can argue has so much female power so this idea Miller uses all women badly to me is incorrect. And I say again so what if heroes are alphas. They should be. They are the stars of their stories. They own the stage.
There is a surprising softness and hopefulness in Year One even if more realistic.
Despite my earlier defense of the previews I was actually expecting this to be quite poor, strangely Miller actually pulled it off for the most part. It was honestly a lot more Post-Crisis in nature really, lots of time on the farm. Kind of felt like a more fleshed out Superman for All Seasons. Miller might actually do the damn thing.
[QUOTE=Deiasilva10;4415727]
Clark is shown as an intelligent young man, aware of the human fragility that he deeply respects. His love for our planet and for our race is very clear, his notion that he is different and therefore his solitude too... is not something depressing and bordering on the self-pity that we are accustomed to see... he can feel solitary but does not let this feeling become depressive and, of course, he is not alone. He becomes the home leader of the school's "losers" group, a fact I really liked n, when necessary, took on the responsibility of defending them.
[/QUOTE]
The amt of time spent with this aspect, the examination of bullying and how he manages it...this would be an excellent read to give a youngster today...if the book was not aimed at older readers.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415701]Isn't Superman that though? Alpha male? Aren't ALL the male heroes and if they do the superhero women well...they are alphas too. What is wrong with that? it is in the superhero dna. Also I don't know what the smww meeting will be like this time given it is so many years he wrote that.[/QUOTE]
Sure but Frank Miller dials this up to 1000. His whole style is to be as melodramatic as possible and he does this with gender roles in almost all his work.
[QUOTE]Batman is hypermasculine. Batman was in the top alpha in DKR and DKSA.[/QUOTE]
Yeah obviously Batman has been the focus in his past DC works but this type of thinking is clearly there whenever he writes SMWW, their first scene together in ASBAR has the "strongman putting feminist in her place" vibe to it.
[QUOTE=Myskin;4415723]No offense meant, but this is a very simplistic view about this specific story and Miller in general.
Yes, Miller has written some very provocative things (and also things which simply weren't good), but also some of the most important books in the entire history of superheroics. Let's not repeat for the umpteenth time that his best days are behind him - everybody knows that at this point and no superhero writer could keep the same level of quality after 30+ years in the field (personally speaking, I am really surprised at how good Superman Year One is all things considered - he probably had a good editor). He has written over-the-top, provocative, military-oriented stories and story about anarchist, revolutionary heroes against the entire system. He has written stories about fatal women and stories about incredibly strong women. Have his detractors only read All Star Batman or also Elektra Assassin, the Martha Washington saga, Hard Boiled, Big Guy and the Rusty robot?
Miller is way more complex than a lot of people make him appear to be and - even in his worst stories - his voice is always unique, no matter how divisive it can be. After reading Superman Year One - the real book, I mean-, the overly exaggerated focus on RAPE!!! and IMPERIALISM!!! I've read in some reviews just seem a cautious attempt at jumping on the Politically Correct bandwagon.[/QUOTE]
I don't despise everything Miller has done and can appreciate DKSA and ASBAR for being deconstructions of comic books previous dark phase partially caused by him. I'm just saying his version of Superman is leaning into an alpha-male type and I don't want an ideal version of Superman to be part of the military (this is going to be his own version so fine but that's my opinion). The attempted gang-rape is just absolutely bizarre, weird and has no real excuse behind it.
Letting Miller write a Superman comic to a man who hates Clark is a huge DC mistake. Worst issue ever. Other issues will be even worse.
[QUOTE=EsotericFailures;4415754]
I don't despise everything Miller has done and can appreciate DKSA and ASBAR for being deconstructions of comic books previous dark phase partially caused by him.[/QUOTE]
Again, I am not talking about DKSA and ASBAR. Miller's career is way bigger and more important than prequels and sequels to DKR, and I'd say that ASBAR (which is probably one of his worst works, or at least an unsuccessful but ultimately harmless experiment) is simply not comparable to his other works. He wrote about minorities, anarchism against the system, crazy US president who are also terrorists, strong female characters, crazy politicians who foreshadow Trump. He's an extremely complex writer and stating that he's just into alpha-male, imperialistic types is - I repeat it - overly simplistic.
[QUOTE=hellacre;4415747]I go back to the DKSA...and I see that as so satirical and bombastic. .[/QUOTE]
You made me think of an old, hilarious Dark Horse one-shot Miller wrote in the 90s, I can't remember the title but it should be something like "Offensive tales" (and I am pretty sure that Miller ALSO did the writing, even if I am not 100% sure).
In it, there is an All-American, Buck Rogers-like hero who is Miller's attempt at satirizing an alpha male. He loves guns, he kills extremely rare dinosaurs to cook them, the makes a vegetarian woman fall in love with him after making her eat some meat and enslaves an entire race of adorable aliens by lobotomizing them and selling them as pets.
It's incredibly funny and pretty revelatory of Miller's views about alpha males.
EDIT The title is TALES TO OFFEND. I recommend it.
So this is how it all started?
[img]https://kunzelman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/allstarbatmanandrobin5.png[/img]
[img]https://kunzelman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/the-dark-knight-strikes-again-miller-1.png[/img]
Well, Frank Miller can do anything if he shows a certain relationship. Poor wonder woman fans.
I thought it was pretty good, the strange narration aside. But even that I got used to.
The Lana thing is way overblown. Yeah it was a serious crime attempt, but bad people can do seriously bad things. And those guys were messed up. People tried to commit a crime, and Clark stopped them. Its the story of his life. This is what he does, and sometimes people he cares about can be the attempted target, just like anyone else can potentially be a victim of anything.
[QUOTE=Superfan90;4415797]So this is how it all started?
[img]https://kunzelman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/allstarbatmanandrobin5.png[/img]
[img]https://kunzelman.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/the-dark-knight-strikes-again-miller-1.png[/img]
Well, Frank Miller can do anything if he shows a certain relationship. Poor wonder woman fans.[/QUOTE]
First of all this book is NOT about Superman/Wonder Woman.
Dragging in smww into a Year One book review shows where your grouse is at.
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4415822]I thought it was pretty good, the strange narration aside. But even that I got used to.
The Lana thing is way overblown. Yeah it was a serious crime attempt, but bad people can do seriously bad things. And those guys were messed up. People tried to commit a crime, and Clark stopped them. Its the story of his life. This is what he does, and sometimes people he cares about can be the attempted target, just like anyone else can potentially be a victim of anything.[/QUOTE]
Of course it is overblown.
How many times we have seen females get cornered and the threat of something about to go down and they get rescued. Hell even by FEMALE heroes rescue the victims. It is such a standard troupe...I get if people complain is a cliched one but to come sing oh Miller is writing gang rapes...jeeze. Women and men can be victim of anything. Hollywood is riddled with supposedly strong intelligent women (and men and children) becoming victims. Girls get attacked on campuses...places they should be safe! Good grief , bad things can happen to any of us. It is the context and yes even someone Clark loves can be at risk.
OH btw the narration...the different pov at times...it seemed weird a bit but then it work. I really like baby Clark has some telepathic abilities on some level. Thinking back to later volumes in the DK verse ...Clark often was communicated to without speaking. I used to assume was a comlink but seems he can hear thoughts???
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4415822]I thought it was pretty good, the strange narration aside. But even that I got used to.
The Lana thing is way overblown. Yeah it was a serious crime attempt, but bad people can do seriously bad things. And those guys were messed up. People tried to commit a crime, and Clark stopped them. Its the story of his life. This is what he does, and sometimes people he cares about can be the attempted target, just like anyone else can potentially be a victim of anything.[/QUOTE]
Yep. It was way overblown. People seem to get worked up over everything these days.
I also think there's a little meta commentary about bullies, and the next stage of their antics if left unchecked can lead to some serious crimes. This is a real issue that happens. It's no different from crimes like assault, which happens so frequently. So why people get jumpy with this astounds me.
I've also seen criticism of the way he asks her out like he's strongarming her with his powers. Jesus jumped up. He asks her out. She wants to know more about him and he basically says "if you want to know more about me will you go on a date with me?", which is pretty much the entire concept of going on a date: getting to know someone you're interested in. She was interested in him, he's interested in her, he asks her out and she agrees. I don't want to live in a society where a cute exchange of two teens falling for one another can actually be painted as somehow predatory.
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4415895]I've also seen criticism of the way he asks her out like he's strongarming her with his powers. Jesus jumped up. He asks her out. She wants to know more about him and he basically says "if you want to know more about me will you go on a date with me?", which is pretty much the entire concept of going on a date: getting to know someone you're interested in. She was interested in him, he's interested in her, he asks her out and she agrees. I don't want to live in a society where a cute exchange of two teens falling for one another can actually be painted as somehow predatory.[/QUOTE]
.There is so much reaching in some of these reviews I have seen. It seems a bizarre agenda to get people to attack Miller for some odd reasons. If Clark can on some level sense feelings or thoughts...look the guy can hear yr heart beat, he can see perspiration on yr lip, he can know if someone is afraid or excited around him even without extra sensory powers...how does that even make him a bad person? So many fictional characters have this kind of thing going etc...I don't see these outlandish attacks on them. He likes Lana. She likes him. They fall in love. She isn't afraid. He trusts her. The guy was not mind controlling anything or anyone to date him.
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4415895]I've also seen criticism of the way he asks her out like he's strongarming her with his powers. Jesus jumped up. He asks her out. She wants to know more about him and he basically says "if you want to know more about me will you go on a date with me?", which is pretty much the entire concept of going on a date: getting to know someone you're interested in. She was interested in him, he's interested in her, he asks her out and she agrees. I don't want to live in a society where a cute exchange of two teens falling for one another can actually be painted as somehow predatory.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, hate to say admit it, but we're living in an over sensitive world now. The general public can and will criticise anything they see as harmful towards women. Not to say there's anything wrong with feminism and women equality and the likes, I support it completely. But when you see an outrage over every single little thing, it gets a bit tiring.
I liked most of it, good art too. But Miller needs a co-writer to help him with the narration. :D
I'll have to wait until much later to finish reading. Originally I thought up a big rant on the failings of Marvel method coupled with probably the most awkward dialogue I can remember (toolsters and peckerwoods? Really?) but the most significant thing for me is gratitude that this discussion is mostly positive and civil. I'm glad people like it, and it was the nicest surprise to see the magazine size when I got to the store. I think I may like it more upon a finish and re read.
Oh and it's completely silly how overblown that scene with Lana seems to be. I flipped through and the content is TV 14 at best.
And even TV 14 is being generous. It was tame, and Superman stops all types of crimes. He'll warn a jaywalker for his own protection but yes, he does, always has, and always should be portrayed as stopping more serious crimes. In this case attempted assault on women. There's nothing out of bounds in portraying that as long as its not too graphic for a book younger people will conceivably consume (not even considering this line is specifically more mature in the first place, but I'd be fine with this in any line). This wasn't. They didn't get to do a thing before Clark literally tossed them into a battered pile.