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[QUOTE=PrezValentine;4360329]Why did Franklin come up when that panel was Havok saving Emma in the final battle of IvX? Maybe you guys just erased it from your memories due to how bad it was, but that was the moment shown.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I guess it was. I looked it up but adult Havok looks remarkably like adult Franklin, down to the armour.
[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4360278]Doubtful.
Haven't seen anything from him close to the level of even kid Franklin without considerable strain.
Even with the life seed in his possession holding together this reality he created is taxing his power.
It's laughable to compare him to Owen Reece. Do you know what MM is capable of?[/QUOTE]
Before Shaman when he couldn't use all his powers, he whooped Professor X on the Astral Plane (although I'll warrant that's because Xavier was more concerned about him than the fight), scanned every mind on Earth in seconds, recreated Madelyne Pryor (and then she raped him) and Gwen Stacy, easily beat Jean Grey in a telepathic battle, Mr. Fantastic notes that if he broke his limits then all hell could break loose, is called the most potent force by Apocalypse and at one point he did break all limits and became practically Godly until his mind connected with Stryfe (which caused an issue because he technically is Stryfe).
As a Shaman Nate blew up Queen Jean by overloading her with power, used the multiverse as a stepladder, linked minds across universes, technically doesn't even need his body, can exit time itself and literally fused with every being on Earth and still brought himself back to life after that.
Life Seed Nate is stronger than Shaman Nate but unlike Shaman Nate, he's dying, so he's technically getting weaker as each action is taxing away his life but even then, maintaining an entire universe as he's doing while dying is pretty impressive.
That being said, Pre-Shaman Nate, Shaman Nate and Life Seed Nate are not as close to being as powerful as God Nate who we saw for a few panels.
Nate could probably stomp Owen Reece or Franklin in just as many ways as Owen or Franklin could probably stomp him.
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Wasn't Nate before that either depowered or just hardly nerfed somehow? Considering that, I think we can only say for sure that the Life Seed made him stronger than that, not necessarily stronger than how he was at his peak.
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[QUOTE=Wiccan;4360399]Wasn't Nate before that either depowered or just hardly nerfed somehow? Considering that, I think we can only say for sure that the Life Seed made him stronger than that, not necessarily stronger than how he was at his peak.[/QUOTE]
Well, Nathan himself says: "[B]The stone... the Life Seed... it's how I'm here. It increased my powers. At first I thought it came to save me, but it still didn't. I'm still dying. I can't save myself. So why did I find it, why did it give me this much power, if not to save myself?[/B]". And upon re-reading, with the knowledge that Nate was depowered from his Shaman level, it can be conjectured that being in that state made him start dying. With that known, that statement can be interpreted one of three ways:
(1) Nate is stronger than he was before as a Shaman but his usage of his powers aren't unlimited anymore because he's dying and back at the risk of burning out.
(2) Nate's base strength is stronger than it was before but if he has to draw on the Life Seed to increase his strength.
(3) Nate's powers are stronger than they were before as in when he was depowered and just a low-level telekinetic but the Life Seed has still put himself bounds ahead of everyone else, even if he's not as strong as he once was as a Shaman its enough for him to resume his duties.
It honestly is probably a mix of all three now that I think about it.
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[QUOTE=MichelleDiMera;4360375]Oh yes you have in the late X Man books when he was breaking dimensions and busting planets.
Molecule Man is basically a plot device jobber..he's not allowed to matter against anyone important..Surfer, Odin, Doom, Magneto, etc.[/QUOTE]
But was he putting universes in his pockets and creating life as if he were drawing with crayons? And didn't destroying a planet almost kill him of I'm not mistaken?
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[QUOTE=Drexelhand;4360546]Well, Nathan himself says: "[B]The stone... the Life Seed... it's how I'm here. It increased my powers. At first I thought it came to save me, but it still didn't. I'm still dying. I can't save myself. So why did I find it, why did it give me this much power, if not to save myself?[/B]". And upon re-reading, with the knowledge that Nate was depowered from his Shaman level, it can be conjectured that being in that state made him start dying. With that known, that statement can be interpreted one of three ways:
(1) Nate is stronger than he was before as a Shaman but his usage of his powers aren't unlimited anymore because he's dying and back at the risk of burning out.
(2) Nate's base strength is stronger than it was before but if he has to draw on the Life Seed to increase his strength.
(3) Nate's powers are stronger than they were before as in when he was depowered and just a low-level telekinetic but the Life Seed has still put himself bounds ahead of everyone else, even if he's not as strong as he once was as a Shaman its enough for him to resume his duties.
It honestly is probably a mix of all three now that I think about it.[/QUOTE]
This was stated to be his strongest incarnation yet.
When has he ever done something comparable to creating this universe?
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[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4360643]This was stated to be his strongest incarnation yet.
When has he ever done something comparable to creating this universe?[/QUOTE]
Where was that stated? I conjectured it from the story but upon re-reading Nate's own quote, I'm not too sure. Jean states he's never been able to do what he did before, but he didn't interact with the X-Men at all during his Shaman phase so it'd make sense that she wouldn't know about what he could do then.
I mean, I listed a bunch of OP stuff that he did right before. In terms of reality warping, no, he hasn't created universes like Franklin has but he's achieved omnipotence before by way of exiting time and in that one battle before a mindlink with Stryfe kicked him in the balls and that seems pretty freaking powerful.
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[QUOTE=Drexelhand;4360662]Where was that stated? I conjectured it from the story but upon re-reading Nate's own quote, I'm not too sure. Jean states he's never been able to do what he did before, but he didn't interact with the X-Men at all during his Shaman phase so it'd make sense that she wouldn't know about what he could do then.
I mean, I listed a bunch of OP stuff that he did right before. In terms of reality warping, no, he hasn't created universes like Franklin has but he's achieved omnipotence before by way of exiting time and in that one battle before a mindlink with Stryfe kicked him in the balls and that seems pretty freaking powerful.[/QUOTE]
How did exiting time give him omnipotence? I'm not familiar with that one, but it sounds comparable to what Legion did when he stepped out of time and removed himself from it completely.
As a psionic entity I knows he's vastly more powerful than most, but I just don't think he's comparable to the likes of Frankie and Reece. In Reece's case especially based on current events.
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[QUOTE=CoCoBandz;4360678]How did exiting time give him omnipotence? I'm not familiar with that one, but it sounds comparable to what Legion did when he stepped out of time and removed himself from it completely.
As a psionic entity I knows he's vastly more powerful than most, but I just don't think he's comparable to the likes of Frankie and Reece. In Reece's case especially based on current events.[/QUOTE]
Essentially this: static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11115/111152067/3924041-darkxmen003015.jpg
He entered Planck Time and could see everything that happened, was happening would eventually happen, with his precognition being greater than Dr. Strange's in Infinity War.
Now, Mr. Fantastic, the father of Franklin Richards, called Nate the 'most powerful psionic being in any reality' and Franklin himself said to Nate that 'they can do anything'. I don't know what's happening with Owen right now but it's like I said, I'm sure I could come up with a lot of ways for Nate to beat him but just as many ways could be brought up for Owen to beat him. Nate being the most powerful telepath aside from Professor X (which is more due to skill than actually power, as we've seen), the best way I'd see him being Owen is just enter Planck Time and add all the inhibitions that Dr. Doom removed back into Owen's mind. As for Franklin, we've seen a lot of cases where the feats he does are more impressive in comparison to Nate, who has never needed to do something comparable until now and even then, Nate's dying, which seems to be the main reason his world is cracking.
