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[QUOTE=Robotman;4484561]A dead franchise? It’s one of DC’s most well known properties.
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And Iron Man is Marvel's top franchise. But his book is currently struggling in the direct market. The Titans are pretty much in the same boat. Mainstream popularity doesn't translate to comic book sales.
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I think a lot of people are just overthinking it. To me, the Justice League always seems like coworkers while the Titans seemed like family.[/QUOTE]
That's nice. It's not going to move the volume of books that DC wants. Barring a major paradigm shift, the Titans are doomed to irrelevance in the current direct market.
[QUOTE=Badou;4484575]The problem we get into is when those teen heroes grow up but are still stuck doing the same things they did when they were teens. This has been the main roadblock the franchise has faced. Do they continue to try and focus on these older adult Titans or do they keep focus on the young heroes?
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I think you have absolutely nailed one of the problems with the various young heroes books at DC.
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[QUOTE=Korath;4484612][B]I think none of the Fab 5 should be Titans at this point. Nothing screams "Justice League for Noobs" like having Batman-lite, Green-Arrow-lite, Wonder Woman-lite, Aquaman-lite and Flash-lite on a team.[/B] What great new and incredible stories could be said about those characters which couldn't be told with their mentors ? Comics are pricey, why should I throw away my money for a bad rendition of F.R.I.E.N.D.S but with super-heroes ?[/QUOTE]
This is indeed a problem, but not one that needs to be solved by getting rid of the Fab 5, because they (along with the NTT crowd) are the heart of the franchise. You might as well ditch the whole thing if you are ditching them. If anybody can be pointed to be the singular main character in this ensemble, it's Dick Grayson. Not Tim Drake or Damian Wayne, not just any Robin can fill this role. Nightwing was the first of them to branch off from his mentor, he's capable of not being Batman-lite when the DC's writers aren't being lazy.
Donna and Roy just need costumes and codenames that aren't awful, which they've never really had. Maybe Donna doesn't even need one at all, just give her a costume that isn't so obviously a WW/Amazon-ish outfit but in black and ditch the shield and sword. Garth is fine if he goes by Tempest and wears his Jimenez costume, and has a power set that distinguishes him from Arthur.
Wally is the biggest problem because he can't be the Flash, but that is a whole other loaded discussion. Basically, downplay the similarities and highlight the differences, and don't make them the ONLY focus, and the JL comparisons will be lesser.
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What I'd do:
Titans aren't teens anymore. The role of the next generation would be YJ's alone. The franchise overlap needs to stop and the Titans have been there and done that.
In terms of continuity, everything happened, but a new phase would start.
Dick and Donna would bring the team back because the world needs a team like the Titans. The Justice League are basically gods and they only really have time for world ending stuff.
The people need a team they can count on to be on call to save them from DC's crazy world of metahumans.
The Titans would be the team on the ground willing to be there for everyone that needed help.
The roster should be a mix of past iteractions with some new additions.
I'd go for something like Dick, Donna, Wally (as Flash), Omen, Tempest, Changeling, Bumblebee and Bunker.
The roster would rotate a bit because their new MO would demand members to be available for missions at all times.
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[QUOTE=Bruce Wayne;4484823]And Iron Man is Marvel's top franchise. But his book is currently struggling in the direct market. The Titans are pretty much in the same boat. Mainstream popularity doesn't translate to comic book sales.
That's nice. It's not going to move the volume of books that DC wants. Barring a major paradigm shift, the Titans are doomed to irrelevance in the current direct market.
I think you have absolutely nailed one of the problems with the various young heroes books at DC.[/QUOTE]
Actually Spider-Man is still very much Marvel's top franchise surpassing Iron Man both in box office and comic book sales.
The direct market is pretty much a dead end if DC wants the massive sales they want with the Titans.
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As many misteps as the franchise has had in the last 10 years it might just be time for a break. Let it sit for a few years. DC doesn't know what to do with their teen heroes right now across the board. This probably all spills down from the top since Didio is not a fan of younger heroes period because he thinks it makes the mentors and such look too old. Let the franchise sit and then come back with a real direction in a couple years. Just introducing more characters everytime you relaunch the book is not a real direction either. I mean of the last 10 or so new Titans characters they have introduced I personally think Bunker was the only one with any kind of staying power, and they shoved him off into limbo to introduce yet more new characters (all 3 of which I can not even name off the top of my head).
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[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;4484830]This is indeed a problem, but not one that needs to be solved by getting rid of the Fab 5, because they (along with the NTT crowd) are the heart of the franchise. You might as well ditch the whole thing if you are ditching them. If anybody can be pointed to be the singular main character in this ensemble, it's Dick Grayson. Not Tim Drake or Damian Wayne, not just any Robin can fill this role. Nightwing was the first of them to branch off from his mentor, he's capable of not being Batman-lite when the DC's writers aren't being lazy.
Donna and Roy just need costumes and codenames that aren't awful, which they've never really had. Maybe Donna doesn't even need one at all, just give her a costume that isn't so obviously a WW/Amazon-ish outfit but in black and ditch the shield and sword. Garth is fine if he goes by Tempest and wears his Jimenez costume, and has a power set that distinguishes him from Arthur.
Wally is the biggest problem because he can't be the Flash, but that is a whole other loaded discussion. Basically, downplay the similarities and highlight the differences, and don't make them the ONLY focus, and the JL comparisons will be lesser.[/QUOTE]
Donna's costume and codename are the least of her problems.She has issues that come from DC's obsession with constantly changing her past and issues tied to the WW franchise which changes at the whim of whoever writes it at the time.Diana is the most consistent thing about WW.
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[QUOTE=Korath;4484612]I think none of the Fab 5 should be Titans at this point. Nothing screams "Justice League for Noobs" like having Batman-lite, Green-Arrow-lite, Wonder Woman-lite, Aquaman-lite and Flash-lite on a team. What great new and incredible stories could be said about those characters which couldn't be told with their mentors ? Comics are pricey, why should I throw away my money for a bad rendition of F.R.I.E.N.D.S but with super-heroes ?[/QUOTE]
Dude, have you not paid attention to what a lot of people have been saying in this thread? That attitude is the exact reason the Titans are floundering right now. [B]Because[/B] certain editorial management at DC view them simply as lesser versions of their mentors. Newsflash, they're not. Dick Grayson is not Batman-lite. Wally West is not Flash-lite. In fact, Wally West for an entire generation, was [B]the[/B] Flash. These characters have their own personalities and motivations and flaws and demons that make them entirely unique from the people who mentored them. Characters are not just their powers.
Wally West is an entirely unique character from Barry Allen, which is clear if you read things like the original NTT run and Mark Waid's Flash run. The same thing applies for Dick Grayson if you read, again, Wolfman and Perez's NTT and Chuck Dixon's Nightwing run. You should really check those out if you want to know more about these characters.
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[QUOTE=king81992;4485031]Donna's costume and codename are the least of her problems.She has issues that come from DC's obsession with constantly changing her past and issues tied to the WW franchise which changes at the whim of whoever writes it at the time.Diana is the most consistent thing about WW.[/QUOTE]
Eeh, Donna’s codename and costume are definitely parts of her problems. Code name not so much as I don’t think she needs a code name, I mean Donna Troy itself is just a cool name IMO. But her look could use some work. Something that preferable differentiates her more from Diana. She is the most clone like of the Fab Five IMO, though she sort of is a clone so it’s a bit understandable. But at this point they should be getting away from that with her.
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[QUOTE=king81992;4485031]Donna's costume and codename are the least of her problems.She has issues that come from DC's obsession with constantly changing her past and issues tied to the WW franchise which changes at the whim of whoever writes it at the time.Diana is the most consistent thing about WW.[/QUOTE]
That goes without saying as well, but the costume and the codename have to do with the problem of Donna seeming like WW-lite at a surface level glance.
Donna needs to have as much of her pre-Crisis origin re-established as possible. It cannot be Diana who rescues her from the burning building, but have a God do it or something, and then just keep it simple: orphaned mortal infant adopted by Hippolyta and Diana's sister, became Wonder Girl, is now an adult. Utilize her connection to the Titans of Myth and the aliens they interacted with to give her a corner of Greek myth that Diana doesn't touch. And give her a variation of her star field costume that is a cross between a Greek warrior motif and some space opera/sci-fi elements. Ditch the lasso after she drops the Wonder Girl name and give her her own weapons/tools distinct from Diana. No shield and sword either.
And for the love of God, return her extended civilian supporting cast: her co-worker Carl, her extended adopted family, even Terry Long would be welcome again.
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Yes Donna should have a civilian life back, and should be a modern Amazon who is fully ingrained into today’s culture and life style. Donna should always be an Amazon, but she doesn’t need to be draped in Amazon motifs. Leave that for Diana. I don’t know about Creepy Terry though, LoL.
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One thing they could do is stop creating all new characters for the team and use some of their fan favorites that are in limbo. I really couldn’t care less about Jinn and new Bouncing Boy or whatever his name is. But I’d add Teen Titans to my pull list if Vibe, Blue Beetle, (a resurrected) Kid Devil, Aquagirl, and a half dozen other unused teen heroes were on the roster. DC has a great lineup of young heroes that are underutilized.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;4485248]Yes Donna should have a civilian life back, and should be a modern Amazon who is fully ingrained into today’s culture and life style. Donna should always be an Amazon, but she doesn’t need to be draped in Amazon motifs. Leave that for Diana. I don’t know about Creepy Terry though, LoL.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, things are pretty bad for Donna if I'm getting somewhat wistful for the Terry Long marriage lol.
Maybe revamp him into a Terry-in-name-only, make him younger and overhaul his personality. Make him a single dad who had a kid at a younger age and had to grow up fast. Definitely don't just transplant the guy from the 80s into the modern age.
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If you’re gonna make him Terry in name only than you’re better off just giving him a new name entirely.
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[QUOTE=Arsenal;4485293]If you’re gonna make him Terry in name only than you’re better off just giving him a new name entirely.[/QUOTE]
There's less broad stroke history to draw upon that way though. Donna's wedding issue is one of the best single issues of the NTT run, and like him or hate him, Terry was part of it.
If we want to restore Titans history, it's easier to reference Donna's wedding to Terry even if we tweak his character to be less gross. Nobody's gonna get up in arms over changes to Terry Long.
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The TITANS show on DCU is rad as hell and has given me a few ideas. It's also given me a much deeper understanding and appreciation for Raven, Starfire, and Beast Boy. That's your core team (along with Nightwing, but I've always loved him). The Titans are their home, so you need to move away from it being "JL Jr." and have Dick and crew be a second option to the Justice League. A hell of a lot more clandestine and operating as a family. Give them more grounded threats to face, to juxtapose with the Justice League fighting the Anti Monitor and stopping dimensional collisions. They go after human trafficking and abuses of science. Lean heavy into Dick's time as a quasi James Bond, at Spyral, and the Titans can get involved in espionage and geopolitical conflicts. Raven is Trigon's daughter, a legit demon, so the occult and spooky cults are well within the jurisdiction of the Titans. Beast Boy is an animal rights activist so you can lean into that. Starfire is a liberating force for good, so you can lean into that- maybe give her a connection to Superman and bam you have a team with ties to Batman AND Superman.
Bring in all the Silver Age continuity, just add it all back again. Let's get weird.
I'd round out the team with Donna Troy and Aqualad. The Atom (to insist that this is not JL Jr.) and Bumblebee. The newer Huntress that worked at Spyral. Natasha Irons. Hawkman, occasionally to help out Ray Palmer. Maybe some others. Roy Harper and his AA sponsor, Killer Croc.
Dick, Gar, Rachel, and Kory are the mainstays though.
Also this gives the reason for Damien forming the TEEN TITANS as another way for him to be like his favorite guy, Dick Grayson!
