If you have been following DC since the start of the New 52:
Do you still consider it the New 52 (with updates)?
Do you see it as a separate version each time that is not connected to the previous version?
What version do you see it as?
If you have been following DC since the start of the New 52:
Do you still consider it the New 52 (with updates)?
Do you see it as a separate version each time that is not connected to the previous version?
What version do you see it as?
The New 52 was the DCU with pieces removed.
The current DCU has just had most of those pieces put back in, but the details are still fuzzy because they keep getting rearranged over and over.
The New 52 could be a separate earth. I think people might appreciate a "fresh start" line of comics with its own canon
New 52: the Ultimate DCU
I kind of wish there was a harder delineation between the New 52 and the non-New 52 DCUs, but there's not. I mean, it seemed like a hard break when it happened, mostly because of Superman and Wonder Woman getting relatively concrete reimaginings, but the likes of Batman and Green Lantern were similar enough that having the pre-Flashpoint and post-Flashpoint Batmen co-exist on the shelf of a comic-book shop would just be redundant, unlike with Wonder Woman or Superman.
I've wished before that instead of chucking everything I liked about the New 52, they'd kept it around in a separate, secondary line of books. Unfortunately, like I said, a lot of the New 52 characters were not distinguished sufficiently from the pre-Flashpoint counterparts. Maybe giving the New 52 Barry and the Main 'Verse Wally might've worked? Eh, I don't know. Doesn't help Batman. Maybe [I]Gods & Monsters[/I] Kirk Langstrom could fill that void in the separate New 52 'verse, or maybe the Bruce from "First Wave". But I digress!
Basically, a good number of the things that made the New 52 unique were retconned, but there was no hardline delineating that a soft reboot had happened across the spectrum as far as I know, and anyway, I'm pretty sure a handful of certain New 52 elements are still in place. I'd say, on a technicality, the DCU is still the New 52's universe, it's just not "still the New 52" in any way that matters.
When they combined the Post Infinite Crisis Superman and the New 52 Superman, he got a new origin that is half Post Infinite Crisis and half New 52. Now he is the New 52 Post Infinite Crisis Superman.
The DC rollercoaster ride continues.
Honestly...
I have no idea.
Which makes it hard to enjoy the books.
What would DC be without trying to make sense of their crazy continuity :p?
Honestly, I don't think they can make up their mind when it comes to New 52 vs. now.
[QUOTE=Lee Stone;4352379]Honestly...
I have no idea.
Which makes it hard to enjoy the books.[/QUOTE]
I agree on the no idea part. Every book seems to have its own tweaks and adjustments and based on the Rebirth special/Button/DClock stories so far there's a feeling something happened, but what and anything about it being "fixed" is up in the air. It's one thing to be too into continuity and following stuff, but if a MAJOR plot is directly dependent on what happened, then it would seem to make sense to make that clearer.
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4352280]The New 52 was the DCU with pieces removed.
The current DCU has just had most of those pieces put back in, but the details are still fuzzy because they keep getting rearranged over and over.[/QUOTE]
This.
So, Manhattan rips big chunks out of the post-Crisis timeline, stuffs chunks of Vertigo and Wildstorm in their place, and the new piece-meal reality is the New52.
Then what Manhattan did starts coming undone; some characters (like Superman) get chunks of their lost history returned to them, (though even that is still altered to one degree or another), Wally West comes back out of the Speed Force (and Conner Kent and Bart Allen return), which puts pressure on the New52 reality to re-adjust to its former (post-Crisis) shape, and some characters like Tim Drake start getting close to figuring out that history was altered, which usually means they start remembering stuff they shouldn't, which again puts more metaphysical pressure on history.
So....yes, it's still the New52 timeline. The "age of heroes" still started 5-ish years ago......except there's huge cracks in the foundation and contradictions in the history, like Jon Kent being ten years old and Batman Year One being essentially back in canon, among other things.
Right now it's a mash of New52 and post-Crisis and a little bit of pre-Crisis and some brand new stuff we didn't have until Rebirth in 2016. And it doesn't fit together at all. But the foundation of history is still, technically, the New52.
Once the heroes defeat the Big Bad and put the stolen time back where it belongs, continuity will (in theory) make senses again. I dont think we're going back to post-Crisis history, but it'll be far closer to that than what it is now.
So, you know those moments in a reality-altering Crisis where everything kind of fuzzes and history breaks apart for a second, threatening the collapse of everything? It's like a one panel thing most of the time? The DCU has been in that state of flux since 2016.
Well I’d say we can still call what we have now “post Flashpoint” if it were up to me. We still called the previous continuity “post-crisis” up to the end even after all the zero hours and infinite crisises etc. Don’t know about calling it “new 52” though, I sorta identify that title with shiny collared armor, skinny Amanda Waller and “pretty” Lobo.
If Dr. Manhattan is the culprit then why did he choose Pandora to tell Barry Allen to combine three timelines together to create the New 52?
[QUOTE=boltmonster;4352486]If Dr. Manhattan is the culprit then why did he choose Pandora to tell Barry Allen to combine three timelines together to create the New 52?[/QUOTE]
I believe the idea is that Pandora merged the Vertigo hypertime tributary and the Wildstorm Earth to strengthen the DCU in the wake of Manhattan's attack. Although Doomsday Clock #10 will probably elaborate on this in more detail. Not sure if Pandora herself will get name dropped. Nobody seemed to like that character.
Kinda, sorta...nobody really knows to be honest with you.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4352469]So....yes, it's still the New52 timeline. The "age of heroes" still started 5-ish years ago......except there's huge cracks in the foundation and contradictions in the history, like Jon Kent being ten years old and Batman Year One being essentially back in canon, among other things.[/QUOTE]
That's actually been out for quite some time now. I'm pretty sure I've read characters say how they've been operating for much longer than that.
Honesty DC continuity is so f'ed up right now I don't know anymore what version or combination of versions I view as being canon. I'm just trying to enjoy or more precisely survive the ride.
I follow Bored's custom-made continuity. :)
[color=red]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color]
Nope. Honestly, based on their own retconning, the New 52 was never its individual thing in the first place. It was pre-Flashpoint with time and events stolen. So technically it can be said it always has has been the pre-FP world. The more that stuff got re-added, during and well after Rebirth, the more that became the foundation again. It is then sprinkled with some slight New 52 ideas, and a couple new things independent of either continuity. Combine it altogether and you get one big incoherent mess, but that's what it is.
Probably the most evident remaining vestige of the New 52 is the Flash's costume, with chin strap...that, and the fact that Barry's mother was murdered during his childhood by the Reverse Flash, though to be fair, that was a Pre-New 52 development (just barely).
[color=red]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color]
[QUOTE=Buried Alien;4352742]I follow Bored's custom-made continuity. :)
[color=red]Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)[/color][/QUOTE]
Thankyew.
[SIZE=2]please read my fully illustrated history of the DCU. I think it's awesome.[/SIZE]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kOptaWRce3K81gDVC6svtvK8mbFEbWC3F-A5JY0w8r8/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b5df5sDwERi4tnhM4kdMnpieDRkAkSRsuiGGH6KMGjw/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ojWJd2p12_OLew3xYeP8IOfHnq55iBtOBS6zXb6X8NA/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
;)
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cELkDVe.jpg[/IMG]
I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe
DC has seen so many times what happens when you replace Character X with Character Y, and then bring Character X back, both moves causing division in the fandom.
So the most logical thing to do is to do that with the [I]whole universe[/I]. :confused:
[QUOTE=Zeeguy91;4352542]That's actually been out for quite some time now. I'm pretty sure I've read characters say how they've been operating for much longer than that.[/QUOTE]There's no clearer indicator of this than Priest's Justice League. In one issue Cyborg said he was a league founder. Which is true in New 52. But in the next, he's suddenly saying the team started 15 years ago, not 5. Which makes it impossible for him to be a founder as he would've still been a child (also, Justice League Odyssey has confirmed he's old friends with Starfire, who didn't know him in New 52, meaning that the New Teen Titans continuity was restored too and New 52 JL wasn't even Cyborg's origin now). No Justice then confirmed that Martian Manhunter was a founder instead, matching classic continuity.
[QUOTE=Denirac;4352774]I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe[/QUOTE]
I would love to see Morrison’s jeans & t-shirt social crusader Superman arrive from his adventures throughout the Multiverse to replace JMS’s abandoned Superman on Earth One. There’s a lot of gas left in that tank, me thinks. He’d also fit in nicely with Johns’s very human and imperfect Batman and Morrison’s Wonder Woman whose Golden Age kinky side has been restored just as Superman’s early social consciousness. Hardman’s Green Lantern is similarly looking to be more proactive about making radical social changes.
An Earth One JLA with the Authority’s society smashing ethos might be just what the line needed. Overtly political superhero comics from DC could work here because of the alternate Earth angle. Or maybe that’s too scary an idea for DC’s new president.;)
The short answer is no. Superman has a completely different history. WW has a completely different history. Batman seems to be slowly getting back to [I]Year One[/I] as his official origin. I imagine by the time all this [I]Rebirth[/I] stuff is done, it'll just be the pre-[I]Flashpoint[/I] universe all over again. [I]Doomsday Clock[/I] is setting up to bring back the JSA again. I think at one point they said Superman had been around for something like 15 years. Don't quote me on that though. I think if we want a New 52 universe, we'll have to twist DC's arm to make it an [I]Ultimates [/I]style line.
[QUOTE=Denirac;4352774]I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe[/QUOTE]
I would. In fact, I'm of the belief that it should have been an [I]Ultimates[/I] type universe from the get go. Just so long as they come out way more frequently than [I]EO[/I] did.
[QUOTE=Denirac;4352774]I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe[/QUOTE]
I know I for one would gladly accept such a development.
There is no concrete answer. Im absolutely certain that virtually no one currently at DC has a concrete answer. The current state of the Universe is really what editorial or what the writer wills it to be.
[QUOTE=boltmonster;4352486]If Dr. Manhattan is the culprit then why did he choose Pandora to tell Barry Allen to combine three timelines together to create the New 52?[/QUOTE]
It's been forever since I read any of this, but if I recall right.....
When Barry tried to fix Flashpoint, Pandora took that opportunity to pull Vertigo and WildStorm into the DCU (Barry wasn't aware of what she was doing). She said something about needing to make the DCU stronger and more ruthless so it could survive a coming threat (and she wasn't happy about doing it). I'm guessing this is the same moment when Manhattan stole a decade from DC; he needed Pandora's help because he already had his hands full stealing history. With her job finished, Manhattan killed her so she couldn't turn on him.
That's how I'm remembering things but I do not trust my memory on this one.
[QUOTE=Zeeguy91;4352542]That's actually been out for quite some time now. I'm pretty sure I've read characters say how they've been operating for much longer than that.[/QUOTE]
It's definitely true for some characters, but last I knew not the world. Which is weird, but aren't cases like Clark and Wally supposed to be mostly isolated incidents; signs of reality snapping, or have we moved past that towards a fuller reconciliation and I didn't notice (I am way behind on a lot of books these days)?
[QUOTE=Denirac;4352774]I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe[/QUOTE]
If the story is good I'll read it. Doesn't really matter what the continuity is.
The New52 had a lot of dross but it did have some really interesting stuff too. I wouldn't mind it being the basis of an alternate earth. It'd depend on the execution, like everything.
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4352854]
An Earth One JLA with the Authority’s society smashing ethos might be just what the line needed. Overtly political superhero comics from DC could work here because of the alternate Earth angle. Or maybe that’s too scary an idea for DC’s new president.;)[/QUOTE]
Pretty sure that is way too scary.
I'd love to see it though. But I'd want it to be less....blunt.....than the Authority. I don't need Superman flying through Giganta's skull. That book was great because it always went over the line but the logic behind their actions was limited and adolescent (which was the guilty fun of the series). I'd want a Ultimate JLA to have a smarter, better game plan for the long term. I'd want less "Miller" and more "Morrison at his sanest and smartest."
At this point no one knows. I assume that writers pick and choose what they want.
[QUOTE=Denirac;4352774]I’m curious to hear an answer to this but hate bringing New 52 up because it can be very divisive:
Would New 52 Fans accept getting “Their Superman” and their DCU back in a Similar Form as Earth One, Graphic Novels every so often set in that Universe[/QUOTE]
God yes. My absolute preference would be an actual separate albeit smaller line of monthlies of a young, start-over Earth, but if GN's were all I could get I'd jump on that too. I'm not at all concerned if that Superman were to be "main continuity" or not. That used to matter to me when I was younger but I grew out of it a long time ago.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4353412]It's definitely true for some characters, but last I knew not the world. Which is weird, but aren't cases like Clark and Wally supposed to be mostly isolated incidents; signs of reality snapping, or have we moved past that towards a fuller reconciliation and I didn't notice (I am way behind on a lot of books these days)?[/QUOTE]
As Digifiend said, Priest's Justice League run states that the League was founded 15 years ago in current continuity. So, the Age of Heroes definitely started up more than 5 years ago.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
I wonder just how much "restored" history has become since 2016?
[QUOTE=Sacred Knight;4353607]God yes. My absolute preference would be an actual separate albeit smaller line of monthlies of a young, start-over Earth, but if GN's were all I could get I'd jump on that too. I'm not at all concerned if that Superman were to be "main continuity" or not. That used to matter to me when I was younger but I grew out of it a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
As long as we got SOMETHING on a regular basis, I'd be happy.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4353428]Pretty sure that is way too scary.
I'd love to see it though. But I'd want it to be less....blunt.....than the Authority. I don't need Superman flying through Giganta's skull. That book was great because it always went over the line but the logic behind their actions was limited and adolescent (which was the guilty fun of the series). I'd want a Ultimate JLA to have a smarter, better game plan for the long term. I'd want less "Miller" and more "Morrison at his sanest and smartest."[/QUOTE]
Since this theoretical series would be starring a trinity created mostly by Morrison, he'd be the logical choice, and he doesn't do gratuitous over the top violence unless he's trying to make a point about it. Unlike Ellis, Morrison actually has affection for these characters and would want them treated with love and respect.
It is exactly the New 52, and at the same time it isn't.
It's also exactly the post-Crisis Universe, but also isn't.
It's also a merger of these two, while also (you guessed it) not being it.
It's also all of the above, and none of it.
But "how is this possible", you ask?
By not giving a f@#k about continuity, that's how.
[QUOTE=Ascended;4353722]Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
I wonder just how much "restored" history has become since 2016?[/QUOTE]
Pretty much all of it, although with a few notable exceptions like Wonder Woman's history, which continues to be a blank slate that nobody has filled in yet even though her New 52 history has been explained away as an illusion created by the Gods. Green Arrow and Black Canary were still based upon their New 52 history, but their last series ended with Dinah starting to remember her old life.
Aside from that, pretty much everything is back. Some stuff isn't being emphasized because a lot of pieces don't fit, like Cyborg's history with the New Teen Titans and the Justice League. Memories are still conveniently hazy for certain characters. Black Lightning and Katana are back to acting like old friends, but haven't explicitly mentioned the original Outsiders yet.
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;4352759]Thankyew.
[SIZE=2]please read my fully illustrated history of the DCU. I think it's awesome.[/SIZE]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kOptaWRce3K81gDVC6svtvK8mbFEbWC3F-A5JY0w8r8/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b5df5sDwERi4tnhM4kdMnpieDRkAkSRsuiGGH6KMGjw/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
[url]https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ojWJd2p12_OLew3xYeP8IOfHnq55iBtOBS6zXb6X8NA/edit?usp=sharing[/url]
;)
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/cELkDVe.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
This is awesome. Did you do one for the Bronze\Modern Age as well?
Who knows at this point?
That’s all I can say about that.