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Yeah, to give the others a chance, Janeway has her good moments when the show allowed her to. Unfortunately, that was the rare exception than the norm.
New Kirk's difficult to judge primarily because he's only had two movies, but I like that we're seeing what Kirk could turn out differently as with the different circumstances.
As for Archer, he...um...well...uh...well, he at least makes Janeway look better by comparison. :P
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1515086]I love them both, but that's pretty skewed reasoning. Using the same trick: Picard [U]captained[/U] the flagship of the Federation, Sisko [U]commanded[/U] a station no-one in the Federation cared about, Picard survived assimilation and defeated the Borg, Sisko couldn't even save his family from the Borg, Picard was judged as the one human worthy of saving the entire human race when it was put on trial by the all powerful Q, Sisko had to repeatedly prove himself to gods in a wormhole who treated him as a tool for their goals, nothing more. See how easy it is to do that?
P.S. and Earl Grey tea is BOSS! :p[/QUOTE]
Picard got assimilated in the 1st Place. Sisko wasnt even in charge when the Borg used the Insider Info from Picard to run through the Federation. Q never turned the tide of a War. The Prophets Did. Sisko won the Dominion War that pretty much tops Picards accomplishments on the Show. Oh also Sisko flipped the Romulans via assassinating Diplomats a move Picard would never make even though its the perfect move to use on the Romulans.
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[QUOTE=Xalfrea;1517108]I think one of the things that puts Sisko above Picard for me is that at the get-go, Sisko's always been written to be a consistent character, and stuff that happened to him was very organically developed.
Anyone who's watched TNG Season 1, 2 and some of 3 should know what a MASSIVE jerk Picard is. The only guess as to why he'd suddenly mellow out is because of what happened with the Borg.[/QUOTE]
Its because TNG is mostly case of the week with loose continuity. Whereas DS9 is the far more modern show ahead of its time with an overarching storyline: The Dominion War that dominated preceedings. Voyager technically had an overarching storyline but.....it was never consistent. Sure the first 2 seasons from DS9 were kinda iffy but S3 it rolled. Voyager was always iffy as hell.
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An attractive, intelligent sexual interest and both Picard's and Kirk's heads would go spinning. Janeway - and yeah, it's bad writing, but it's canon writing - just made one bad decision after another, and if she had a chance to do right, got shut down. Sisko wasn't perfect, but he had a handle on himself and his job.
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[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1519392]Look at Soren, ultimately Kirk fort Soren, Picard STOPPED Soren by going for the missile. Major difference. The pen is mightier than the sword.[/QUOTE]
Picard stopped Soren BECAUSE Kirk was fighting Soren i.e. giving Picard enough time to reprogram the missile. No Kirk there just means another in a long line of ass-whuppings for Picard. The pen looks good when the sword is doing the dirty work.
[QUOTE=Kieran_Frost;1519392]And Guinan is a better shot than Worf. ;) Soren is ancient, like Guinan, it makes sense he's had decades (if not centuries) more experience in hand-to-hand than Picard ever could. Considering Soren's advanced skill, Picard (who is not a fighter) lasts pretty well against him.[/QUOTE]
But not as well as AARP Kirk who was about 40 years past his prime AND STILL whuppin' Soren's sorry butt. Face it, Picard's as soft as room temperature butter.
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[QUOTE=JaggedFel;1519486]Picard got assimilated in the 1st Place. Sisko wasnt even in charge when the Borg used the Insider Info from Picard to run through the Federation. Q never turned the tide of a War. The Prophets Did. Sisko won the Dominion War that pretty much tops Picards accomplishments on the Show. Oh also Sisko flipped the Romulans via assassinating Diplomats a move Picard would never make even though its the perfect move to use on the Romulans.[/QUOTE]
also, sisko wasn't a tool of the prophets. those guys loved ben, as much as beings such as them can love someone. when an time traveling bajoran came back and took over duties as "the emissary" from sisko, he threw their whole world out of wack. so him and sisko went into the wormhole to ask the Prophets who the real emissary was. they made no bones about it: the sisko was their boy.
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In the interest of fairness again, Janeway's best moment in her entire show.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYwEaBu6lfQ[/url]