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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4154145]And yet, it's nominated.
Weird. It's like one of us can point to an actual objective standard (An academy award nomination). And the other one of us is full of shit (Hint: It's you).[/QUOTE]
Well lets see.... The Dark Knight is the reason that the Best Picture nomination list expanded, which realistically is the only reason Black Panther got nominated. If you really think Black Panther would have got nominated in 2008 I have a bridge to sell you. So that's not even remotely compelling argument. In fact lacks a whole bunch of context. Let's put it this way, movie fans were so irate one film didn't get nominated that people still view it as one of the biggest snubs of all time a decade later and the Academy flat out changed it's award process in response. One film's response to getting nominated is, pretty negative to say the least and this is largely being called one of the weakest Oscar seasons in years (both BP and Bohemian Rhapsody are kind of joke nominations tbh).
Second, at least I could provide a list of technical aspects of film making that you can evaluate in some sort of measurable way by comparing the techniques and innovation each aspect (acting performance, cinematography). You provided a highly subjective list of things like "compelling antagonist" which is far more subjective than anything I posted. And quite frankly, you're really going to have a hard time selling that Killmonger was more compelling than Ledger's Joker. So it wasn't even a great one.
Third, stop being rude. For one, if you need to call other people full of shit to support your argument, it's a bad argument. And considering the way you presented your case, you shouldn't be throwing stones. Now if you, can't be mature and discuss this, maybe you are just too emotionally invested on this subject.
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[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4154128]1.344 billion WW
700 mil domestic
A+ Cinemascore
97% RT score
8.2/10 RT rating
100% Top Critics RT score
8.9/10 Top Critics RT Rating
88 metacritic score
Oscar nominated
MTV Award winner
Teen Choice Award Winner
Peoples Choice Award Winner
BET Award Winner
Satellite Award Winner
Critics Choice Award Winner
I got time today . What the F*ck does Logan and Dark Knight deserving nomination have to do with Black Panther, That is the fault of Oscar voters, not Black Panther. Oh well this year voter pulls their heads out there ass voted for Superhero movie like they should of in past years. Does Black Panther win? No, the system is still set up against genre movies but wall is down and the next superhero film that is deserving will have a better chance. That said nothing you guys is going to take away what it already has done. Is Black Panther one of the best film of the year? Apparently the audience and critics thought so. Period[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this doesn't have to be a zero sum game sort of thing.
You can credibly argue that Logan and Dark Knight DO deserve more recognition than they got. But that doesn't mean T'Challa doesn't deserve it as well. Super hero movies as a whole probably deserve more respect than they get, and maybe now they will because of Black Panther.
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[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;4154170]Well lets see.... The Dark Knight is the reason that the Best Picture nomination list expanded, which realistically is the only reason Black Panther got nominated. If you really think Black Panther would have got nominated in 2008 I have a bridge to sell you. So that's not even remotely compelling argument. In fact lacks a whole bunch of context. Let's put it this way, movie fans were so irate one film didn't get nominated that people still view it as one of the biggest snubs of all time a decade later and the Academy flat out changed it's award process in response. One film's response to getting nominated is, pretty negative to say the least and this is largely being called one of the weakest Oscar seasons in years (both BP and Bohemian Rhapsody are kind of joke nominations tbh).
Second, at least I could provide a list of technical aspects of film making that you can evaluate in some sort of measurable way by comparing the techniques and innovation each aspect (acting performance, cinematography). You provided a highly subjective list of things like "compelling antagonist" which is far more subjective than anything I posted. And quite frankly, you're really going to have a hard time selling that Killmonger was more compelling than Ledger's Joker. So it wasn't even a great one.
Third, stop being rude. For one, if you need to call other people full of shit to support your argument, it's a bad argument. And considering the way you presented your case, you shouldn't be throwing stones. Now if you, can't be mature and discuss this,[B] maybe you are just too emotionally invested on this subject.[/B][/QUOTE]
And yet here you are whining about a decade old movie not winning an award.
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[QUOTE=XPac;4154172]Yeah, this doesn't have to be a zero sum game sort of thing.
You can credibly argue that Logan and Dark Knight DO deserve more recognition than they got. But that doesn't mean T'Challa doesn't deserve it as well. Super hero movies as a whole probably deserve more respect than they get, and maybe now they will because of Black Panther.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. It really isn't Black Panther's fault that Logan and Dark Knight didn't get more accolades than they should have. I really liked The Dark Knight, and maybe Black Panther wouldn't have gotten the nomination had it not been for the work that other comic movies like TDK laid down. But that doesn't take away from either movie as well. Movies are on a continuum. And tomorrow's superhero films are going to be built on what Black Panther and other movies laid down as well -- heck, they already are, like Spider-Verse.
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Irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but I always thought "Action" should be a category at these awards. It's something Jackie Chan always said, and he was right. The superheroes, the Bonds, the Mission Impossibles, the Bournes, the kung fu films, etc. don't really belong in the drama or comedy categories. (I know we're talking about Best Picture, but I'm just saying.)
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[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;4154130]
I’d be hard pressed to find a real technical aspect of filmmaking that Black Panther outpaced The Dark Knight. Like I could see someone subjectively liking the story and the themes better. But as a film? No it’s not really that much of a contest.[/QUOTE]
It is not competing against Dark Knight it is up against a Star is born, Roma and others. The quality of years past movie don't matter and is just a distraction there is one film this year "If Beale Street Could Talk" that has a legit gripe for not being nominated for Best Film. Dark Knight(and Logan) is arguably better than bunch stuff have been up for Best picture Avatar, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Django Unchained,Toy Story 3 etc it does not matter. It wasn't up against those movies all that matters is this year and Black Panther is worth of nod this year. Freaking Abe Sapien won last year and people are trying to question if Black Panther is deserved to be nominated.
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[QUOTE=Cyke;4153233]The fact that all its other nominations are in technical categories probably means that it won't win Best Picture. It's nice to be nominated, but typically Best Picture nominees are accompanied by nominations for Best Director and/or Best Writing (of some kind).
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have to say that the fact that Black Panther's other nominations were all in technical categories -- typical for CBMs -- is kind of a tell that Best Picture was a symbolic nomination because it was an important cultural milestone, but that's ok. Change has to begin somewhere.
I agree that Chadwick Boseman should not have been nominated for Actor because BP was kind of a flat character, but the fact that Michael B. Jordan didn't even get a Supporting Actor nomination is a big tip off that no one is looking closely at the content of BP. I thought the Killmonger speech at the end could be Oscar bait, but I can see that other than that, there wasn't enough to bring it to consideration for a nomination.
Still, BP did get 7 nominations, which is likely a record for a CBM.
[B][U]Here's how the other 2018 Comic Book movies stacked up:[/U][/B]
[B]Aquaman:[/B] nothing.
[B]Venom: [/B]nothing.
[B]Teen Titans Go to the Movies: [/B]nothing
[B]Ant-Man and the Wasp:[/B] nothing
[B]Deadpool 2:[/B] nothing
[B]Infinity War:[/B] 1 for Visual Effects
[B]Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse:[/B] 1 for Best Animated Feature Film
So, congratulations to Marvel for getting two important Oscar nominations: Best Picture and Best Animated Feature Film! That's pretty fantastic!
In other news, congratulations to Amy Adams (DCEU's Lois Lane) for getting an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actress for Vice as Lynne Cheney.
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[QUOTE=babybats;4154245]Irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but I always thought "Action" should be a category at these awards. It's something Jackie Chan always said, and he was right. The superheroes, the Bonds, the Mission Impossibles, the Bournes, the kung fu films, etc. don't really belong in the drama or comedy categories. (I know we're talking about Best Picture, but I'm just saying.)[/QUOTE]
Eh, there's merit there but "best film" implies it's peerless and stands above all. When you start adding qualifiers it takes away from that ideal.
I do think the concept of "best" should be broadened to move away from standard Oscar bait.
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[QUOTE=KNIGHT OF THE LAKE;4154030]Name one aspect of filmmaking it does better than The Dark Knight. Besides CGI[/QUOTE]
TDK filmed Batman flying in the wrong direction he started from,had the lead actor literally Barking like a dog through the whole movie,cut off body parts during fight scenes,dumb-ass no logic character motivations a piss poor third act and idoitic ending. There that's more than one.
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[QUOTE=Killerbee911;4154253][B]It is not competing against Dark Knight it is up against a Star is born, Roma and others. The quality of years past movie don't matter and is just a distraction there is one film this year "If Beale Street Could Talk" that has a legit gripe for not being nominated for Best Film.[/B] Dark Knight(and Logan) is arguably better than bunch stuff have been up for Best picture Avatar, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers, Django Unchained,Toy Story 3 etc it does not matter. It wasn't up against those movies all that matters is this year and Black Panther is worth of nod this year. Freaking Abe Sapien won last year and people are trying to question if Black Panther is deserved to be nominated.[/QUOTE]
This is true. It's sort of like arguing if Chamberlain is better than Jordan is better than Kobe.
The field was wildly different and the rules and play style have adapted. There is really no way to "measurably" determine that.
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[QUOTE=Comic-Reader Lad;4154269]Yeah, I have to say that the fact that Black Panther's other nominations were all in technical categories -- typical for CBMs -- is kind of a tell that Best Picture was a symbolic nomination because it was an important cultural milestone, but that's ok. Change has to begin somewhere.
I agree that Chadwick Boseman should not have been nominated for Actor because BP was kind of a flat character, but the fact that Michael B. Jordan didn't even get a Supporting Actor nomination is a big tip off that no one is looking closely at the content of BP. I thought the Killmonger speech at the end could be Oscar bait, but I can see that other than that, there wasn't enough to bring it to consideration for a nomination.
Still, BP did get 7 nominations, which is likely a record for a CBM.
[B][U]Here's how the other 2018 Comic Book movies stacked up:[/U][/B]
[B]Aquaman:[/B] nothing.
[B]Venom: [/B]nothing.
[B]Teen Titans Go to the Movies: [/B]nothing
[B]Ant-Man and the Wasp:[/B] nothing
[B]Deadpool 2:[/B] nothing
[B]Infinity War:[/B] 1 for Visual Effects
[B]Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse:[/B] 1 for Best Animated Feature Film
So, congratulations to Marvel for getting two important Oscar nominations: Best Picture and Best Animated Feature Film! That's pretty fantastic!
In other news, congratulations to Amy Adams (DCEU's Lois Lane) for getting an Oscar nomination for Best Supporting Actress for Vice as Lynne Cheney.[/QUOTE]
I'm honestly hoping BlacKKKlansman or Roma wins.
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Funny thing is ppl get on BP's cgi and then gush over Venom LOL a movie that looks like a damn video game. Yeah the bias is real.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4154197]And yet here you are whining about a decade old movie not winning an award.[/QUOTE]
So you're going to make a non argument? Sounds good. This isn't neccessary anymore.
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[QUOTE=Things Fall Apart;4154270]Eh, there's merit there but "best film" implies it's peerless and stands above all. When you start adding qualifiers it takes away from that ideal.
I do think the concept of "best" should be broadened to move away from standard Oscar bait.[/QUOTE]
That's not a qualifier, I'm talking about adding another category for action genre films like there are for comedy and drama and animation (which isn't even a genre, it's a medium, but whatever, Hollywood).
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[QUOTE=babybats;4154297]That's not a qualifier, I'm talking about adding another category for action genre films like there are for comedy and drama and animation (which isn't even a genre, it's a medium, but whatever, Hollywood).[/QUOTE]
Other awards make that distinction, but not the Oscars, I believe.
Word is that the Oscars started the Best Animated Film award to prevent future animated movies from being nominated for Best Film like Beauty and the Beast did; Roger Ebert also believed it was a way to stop films like Spirited Away as well, and he even accused the Academy of sabotaging Princess Mononoke's chances of nomination for Best Foreign Film. The official reasoning is that the field of animated movies have grown, but still, so have all other movies.