Cassandra Cain needs to be Batgirl more then the other “Batgirls”.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5626588]Sure, but what is it that Batgirl needs.[B] Its just like with Tim going back to Robin[/B]. Sure it makes him more relevant again, but what does that do for the brand at this point.[/QUOTE]

Except no one asked for that. I want Tim out of that role altogether, no 'Red' attached to the front of his name either. I suspect that will be the case soon. We only need one Robin, Damian fits that role(though they need to have him working with Batman again). Don't want 'Robin' to be like the Green Lanterns

[QUOTE=witchboy;5626097]I like all three of them. I do think Babs was at her best as Oracle.
I support Cass as Batgirl but I do think she can still be effective as BlackBat or with a new code name. The problem is DC doesn't seem invested in her.[/QUOTE]

I think the same..

[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5626642]Cass managed her own series for 70 issues, and only lost it because if Dan D.

What the Bat Offices need to do is give her more focus, with a good writer. Since her return in Batman Eternal, how many character arcs has she gotten? How many solo stories?

Instead of the millionth Babs as Batgirl, Cass needs an equal push at least once or twice.[/QUOTE]

That was 20 years ago, when there was still new paint with Cass. Thats the same lame duck claim to fame as with Tim. 20 years ago they were able to hold their brands first and only attempts at solo titles. But time moves on, and they don't have a chance in hell of doing that now. After the end of Cass' run, Cass couldn't manage 6 issues. Their character values have plummeted since then, and the idea of a Robin or Batgirl series is no longer novel. They used Robin's 75th anniversary to give her weekly focus, they put her in 'Tec and repeated her same same story arc there, and then Outsiders. She's been around. They have given focused, but if there is no traction to that focus there's no incentive for them to need to do more or invest a brand into them. They doing it with Tim seemingly solely out of nostalgia, and its doing nothing for the brand.

I'm fine with all three of them being Batgirl.

I definitely think one of them doesn't need to be Batgirl, personally. But I think we're at the point where all the fans of the three want them to be Batgirl, no exceptions. From what I've seen, all the fandoms are fine with all three being Batgirl too. So the only thing holding them back is DC's own weird, personal biases.

The problem is that Cass/Steph's time and position as Batgirl are often seen as lesser to Babs', when I've always thought they achieved heights that Barbara never has. Nevertheless, the perception DC has of Cass/Steph is that they are somewhat more incompetent than Babs. This is probably exemplified most in the "Batgirls" identity even being a thing in the first place. The fact that Cass and Steph have to even be at the same place and the same time to even be called Batgirl is a perfect example of how DC views their capabilities. Meanwhile, Barbara gets to be Oracle while she keeps a monopoly on the Batgirl mantle, which is a bit unfair and only serves to limit all three.

Anyway, just have all three of them be Batgirl DC. There's no reason at all that you cant do it.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5626673]That was 20 years ago, when there was still new paint with Cass. Thats the same lame duck claim to fame as with Tim. 20 years ago they were able to hold their brands first and only attempts at solo titles. But time moves on, and they don't have a chance in hell of doing that now. After the end of Cass' run, Cass couldn't manage 6 issues. Their character values have plummeted since then, and the idea of a Robin or Batgirl series is no longer novel. They used Robin's 75th anniversary to give her weekly focus, they put her in 'Tec and repeated her same same story arc there, and then Outsiders. She's been around. They have given focused, but if there is no traction to that focus there's no incentive for them to need to do more or invest a brand into them. They doing it with Tim seemingly solely out of nostalgia, and its doing nothing for the brand.[/QUOTE]

Nightwing's held a series for many years? Bruce, how many?

Cass hasn't had the same level of commitment from the higher ups. How many times did they have to reboot Babs' series? If they gave Cass half the level of commitment they gave her, things would be fine.

[QUOTE=KrustyKid;5626644][b]Except no one asked for that[/b]. I want Tim out of that role altogether, no 'Red' attached to the front of his name either. I suspect that will be the case soon. We only need one Robin, Damian fits that role(though they need to have him working with Batman again). Don't want 'Robin' to be like the Green Lanterns[/QUOTE]

Lots of people asked for and are asking for that including writers.

Someone just asked for that on the previous page of this very thread lmao.

Clutching onto nostalgia is the reason why Tim is currently suffering in his current Robin but only when Damian isn't in the room state.

he had a decent solo effort with rr [Batman-lite but decent] but that wasn't good enough for some.

Cass doesn't deserve Batgirl more than the other 3 that's an entitled and biased way of thinking

[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5626687]How many times did they have to reboot Babs' series? [/QUOTE] Babs' series got rebooted once during Rebirth when they rebooted all series.

[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5626687]Nightwing's held a series for many years? Bruce, how many?

Cass hasn't had the same level of commitment from the higher ups. How many times did they have to reboot Babs' series? If they gave Cass half the level of commitment they gave her, things would be fine.[/QUOTE]

Decades. As their character value remained able to do so. Despite bad creators and editorial vendettas. Cass and Tim don’t have that kind of viability.

And Babs’ series got 1 relaunch to coincide with DC’s line wide relaunch, after having been one of their few titles to make it the distance from the first line relaunch. What’s more between B&R:E and Tec’ Cass was seeing more commitment then Babs Rebirth’s series initially saw. As they pushed that series to the wayside to exists in it own little bubble, as the creators in the Bat office were focused on pushing Batwoman and the Tec family.

[QUOTE=Godlike13;5626710]Decades. As their character value remained able to do so. Despite bad creators and editorial vendettas. Cass and Tim don’t have that kind of viability.

And Babs’ series got 1 relaunch to coincide with DC’s line wide relaunch, after having been one of their few titles to make it the distance from the first line relaunch. What’s more between B&R:E and Tec’ Cass was seeing more commitment then Babs Rebirth’s series initially saw. As they pushed that series to the wayside to exists in it own little bubble, as the creators in the Bat office were focused on pushing Batwoman and the Tec family.[/QUOTE]

Tim and Cass have remained pretty popular, all things considered. And it's not as if anyone was really clamoring for a Babs series.

Cass just needs commitment, and the entire line needs less damn crossovers every 6 months

[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5626715]Tim and Cass have remained pretty popular, all things considered. And it's not as if anyone was really clamoring for a Babs series.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure there are many people who clamor for a Babs series. Maybe you don't heard about them, but they exist and had bought her comic for 9 years.

I don't even like Barbara as Batgirl anymore, but she is likely the most popular character with the brand.

[QUOTE=mathew101281;5626075]Steph works equally as well as Spoiler, in fact I don’t think the character fundamentally changes all that much when she changes monikers.

Babs actually works better in many peoples eyes as Oracle.

Cass is only “Batgirl I feel looses quite a bit when she doesnt have the moniker.[/QUOTE]


Given that the identity was taken TWICE (three if you count wiping away the entire Batgirl history with the New 52), yeah. Cass has got the biggest raw deal out of the Batgirls. She lost the identity because the higher-ups clearly favored one in particular (Babs) and did all they could to sabotage the character. So yeah, she does deserve the moniker.

[QUOTE=Blight;5626777]Given that the identity was taken TWICE (three if you count wiping away the entire Batgirl history with the New 52), yeah. Cass has got the biggest raw deal out of the Batgirls. She lost the identity because the higher-ups clearly favored one in particular (Babs) and did all they could to sabotage the character. So yeah, she does deserve the moniker.[/QUOTE]

Everyone forgets that while Babs was the first Batgirl, she was the last one to have her own book.

If DC wants to be progressive, they need to at least attempt to be diverse.

Well, it seems like they're all going to end up bunched together in one book so...we'll see how that goes.

[QUOTE=The Cool Thatguy;5626785]Everyone forgets that [B]while Babs was the first Batgirl[/B], she was the last one to have her own book...[/QUOTE]You have to be careful with statements like that.

[img]https://i67.servimg.com/u/f67/18/91/37/14/batman78.jpg[/img]

And Betty / Bette did resume being "Bat-Girl" while Barbara was "Batgirl".[SIZE=1]
How they can tell the difference between saying "Bat-Girl" and "Batgirl" is beyond me.[/SIZE]