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Amy Reeder & Brandon Montclare explain the importance of "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur's" new revelation.
[I]Full article [URL=http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/montclare-reeder-explain-how-moon-girl-became-the-smartest-person-in-the-marvel-universe]here[/URL].[/I]
That's awesome!
I've really been enjoying Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. Glad Lunella will be sticking around!
I guess she kind of has to be for her story to work. But damn there are so many geniuses in the Marvel Universe already. I feel like some of them need to have their intelligence reduced, especially Peter Parker. I'm fine with him really smart, or smart enough to make web shooters in high school, but him on the same level as Tony Stark just kind of breaks his character a lot for me. Clever smart not super genius.
Only slight quibble I have with the idea is it feels very... informed rather than shown.
If a writer turns around and goes 'My character is smarter than Richards/Doom' my gut reaction is 'um... how?' You can have a scene where they do a mary/marty sue and explain something complicated to the established character but generally that doesn't feel particularly organic.
I've only read the first TPB of this series, but am I the only one that found it rather underwhelming?
"Smartest person in the marvel universe." A TIRED moniker handed to practically everyone in the marvel universe.
[QUOTE=Awsyme;2256047]Only slight quibble I have with the idea is it feels very... informed rather than shown.
If a writer turns around and goes 'My character is smarter than Richards/Doom' my gut reaction is 'um... how?' You can have a scene where they do a mary/marty sue and explain something complicated to the established character but generally that doesn't feel particularly organic.[/QUOTE]
Well, the next arc is just to show instead of tell it. It just will take 6 issues instead of 15+ years.
[QUOTE=SoupStainedTie;2256051]I've only read the first TPB of this series, but am I the only one that found it rather underwhelming?[/QUOTE]
I didn't find it underwhelming. Sure, it's a light read since it's a all-ages book, but it's also a lot of fun with a character that i can relate to and a FREAKING RED DINO! I Love it!
Moon Girl the smartest?
[IMG]http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/5/5a/Reed_Richards_Time_Runs_Out.png/revision/latest?cb=20150205215052[/IMG]
I'm just not buying this.
[QUOTE=SoupStainedTie;2256051]I've only read the first TPB of this series, but am I the only one that found it rather underwhelming?[/QUOTE]
I mean it's a good book (worth picking up) and a fun read, but it's not any better than the rest of the books Marvel is putting out. Nothing outstanding or special about it, imo...
Shouldn't there be a some kind of advertorial notification in these type of contents? I mean, it is a plain promotion. I don't know how this works in U.S. though, if they have obligation on this.
[QUOTE=xpyred;2256071]"Smartest person in the marvel universe." A TIRED moniker handed to practically everyone in the marvel universe.[/QUOTE]
True enough. As others have noted, it's especially odd when its a brand new character (and only nine years old?) with no real history to back it up. It comes across very much as just a pointless case of one-upmanship.
[QUOTE=Cthulhudrew;2256153]True enough. As others have noted, it's especially odd when its a brand new character (and only nine years old?) with no real history to back it up. It comes across very much as just a pointless case of one-upmanship.[/QUOTE]
I honestly can't tell if it adds value to the character and/or the story, or if it's just a good marketing strategy to make Lunella more popular and grab a few headlines for Marvel in the process...
[QUOTE=solletaire;2256178]I honestly can't tell if it adds value to the character and/or the story, or if [B]it's just a good marketing strategy to make Lunella more popular and grab a few headlines for Marvel in the process...[/B][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ltrfk8ZWvE1r3s1g4o1_500.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=xpyred;2256071]"Smartest person in the marvel universe." A TIRED moniker handed to practically everyone in the marvel universe.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be [I]the[/I] genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;2256280]I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be [I]the[/I] genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.[/QUOTE]
Right? At least Pak settled for 7th with Cho, and even then we got a chuckle out of Hank meeting him and being like "Welp I'm back, so better knock yourself down a slot".
Not to mention, Cho actually was shown to be super intelligent, at least when it comes to probabilities. Has Moon Girl really shown that much?
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;2256280]I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be [I]the[/I] genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.[/QUOTE]
not if they prove it.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2256316]not if they prove it.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty easy to write a smart guy in fiction by just having them create some super-genius solution with little other than gobbledygook explanation; it's fiction. So that sort of thing is bound to happen, and it's not easy to prove one guy's handwavium is superior to another's. The problem is when writers have their character demonstrate their superiority by deliberately downplaying other characters' accomplishments. That's the sort of thing that really rankles, when suddenly Reed Richards got beaten by the idiot stick so that newfangled character of the week could shine.
Not saying that's what is happening or has happened here, but that's what bugs me most when this sort of thing often crops up.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2256316]not if they prove it.[/QUOTE]
...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;2256381]...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.[/QUOTE]
Marvel has done this in the past with Strength levels, too (doesn't seem as prevalent these days). I know they always used to make a point of showing people like Colossus being weaker than say the Hulk, but then a writer would decide that wasn't good enough and would increase the character's strength even further, seemingly just because.
In part I blame that on the Handbooks, because it suddenly became a big deal to offer quantifications of power levels for some reason (Gruenwald seemed to really want to do this), and so you had some of these cases where the Handbooks didn't really fit the evidence.
Now it looks like Intellect is the new Strength.
Just because you're smart doesn't mean you're wise.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;2256280]I agree. Why isn't it enough that the character is smart or a genius? Why do they have to be [I]the[/I] genius? Thanks to this kind of stretch coming up so much, saying someone is the smartest person in the Marvel Universe has honestly lost all meaning.[/QUOTE]
Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.
I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.
[QUOTE=Cthulhudrew;2256410]Marvel has done this in the past with Strength levels, too (doesn't seem as prevalent these days). I know they always used to make a point of showing people like Colossus being weaker than say the Hulk, but then a writer would decide that wasn't good enough and would increase the character's strength even further, seemingly just because.
In part I blame that on the Handbooks, because it suddenly became a big deal to offer quantifications of power levels for some reason (Gruenwald seemed to really want to do this), and so you had some of these cases where the Handbooks didn't really fit the evidence.
Now it looks like Intellect is the new Strength.[/QUOTE]
I think some of those evolving Strength levels was due to younger men reaching their peak over time.
I always felt that Colossus was still growing and hadn't reached his peak yet. The Marvel Universe handbook had him at 75 tons originally--his entry had Colossus in his Uncanny X-Men 195-200 era costume. By Fall of the Mutants, Claremont mentioned that he was getting more massive, and Marc Silvestri drew him as this massive guy. In the binder-style handbooks that came out around the Jim Lee X-Men era, it was mentioned that Colossus was now lifting 90 tons.
Warpath was another one who "grew up". I think he went from pressing 10 tons back in New Mutants to 75 tons in X-Force. And he was drawn freakishly larger.
Or maybe we're looking at this the wrong way and "the smartest" moniker is designed for the core audience of the book aka middle school kids...
[QUOTE=Wulf1984;2256425]Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.
I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.[/QUOTE]
Actually most of those end up having horrible deaths and their teams disbanded and killed. As for certain guy with glasses he learned his leadership stuff from 50 years of leading the X men with almost no pauses.
As for moon Girl, I wanna see her making a cosmic cube, curing the terrigen mists disease, finding Hillary email and trump tax returns, beat ultimate reed Richards in chess and stealing the power cosmic before I can consider her to be a genius. Or maybe that's not her area of expertise
[QUOTE=solletaire;2256541]Or maybe we're looking at this the wrong way and "the smartest" moniker is designed for the core audience of the book aka middle school kids...[/QUOTE]
Problem there is they're not just using it as a tagline like calling Captain Marvel Earth's Mightiest Hero, they're actually incorporating it into the book itself. Now if this were a self-contained book in its own universe like how Marvel Adventures was, it'd be one thing. But this is canon to the MU as a whole so it's a much bigger deal regardless of who it's catering towards. At some point, you gotta wonder what the limit is before they start entering into Mary Sue territory.
[QUOTE=Wulf1984;2256443]I think some of those evolving Strength levels was due to younger men reaching their peak over time.
I always felt that Colossus was still growing and hadn't reached his peak yet. The Marvel Universe handbook had him at 75 tons originally--his entry had Colossus in his Uncanny X-Men 195-200 era costume. By Fall of the Mutants, Claremont mentioned that he was getting more massive, and Marc Silvestri drew him as this massive guy. In the binder-style handbooks that came out around the Jim Lee X-Men era, it was mentioned that Colossus was now lifting 90 tons.
Warpath was another one who "grew up". I think he went from pressing 10 tons back in New Mutants to 75 tons in X-Force. And he was drawn freakishly larger.[/QUOTE]
and then he became super fast. and then he could fly, irrc. Proudstar should have changed his name to Powercreep.
[QUOTE=Kurolegacy;2256381]...Until the next smartest person comes along and then the next and the next and so on and so forth. It's honestly gotten to the point of power level redundancy in Shounen battle series.[/QUOTE]
that's just it. the title doesn't and hasn't ever meant anything. it's a descriptor; like Uncanny X-Men. are they really uncanny? are they the uncanniest? is Hulk the strongest or does he just become the strongest after Emil Blonsky gets him angry?
[QUOTE=Cthulhudrew;2256380]It's pretty easy to write a smart guy in fiction by just having them create some super-genius solution with little other than gobbledygook explanation; it's fiction. So that sort of thing is bound to happen, and it's not easy to prove one guy's handwavium is superior to another's. The problem is when writers have their character demonstrate their superiority by deliberately downplaying other characters' accomplishments. That's the sort of thing that really rankles, when suddenly Reed Richards got beaten by the idiot stick so that newfangled character of the week could shine. [/QUOTE]
but it's alright when it's not a newfangled character, though; right? because Doctor Doom has made Reed look stupid; plenty of times. people like Ant-Man, Luke Cage, and Squirrel Girl have made Doom look stupid, at least once. people are not going to accept Lunella as a super genius until she does something with her intellect that Reed or Doom haven't. and some people will see that as a slight against Reed and/or Doom. there's no avoiding it. personally, I think they called her the smartest because it is attention-grabbing. it's right out of the Stan Lee playbook.
It's gonna be pretty tough to be smarter than the dude who is currently [I]rebuilding the multiverse.[/I]
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2256831]It's gonna be pretty tough to be smarter than the dude who is currently [I]rebuilding the multiverse.[/I][/QUOTE]
Valeria's already smarter. couldn't be that hard. I'd also place Ultimate Reed Richards above him. then there's Doom. Reed isn't even rebuilding the multiverse alone.
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2256848]Valeria's already smarter. couldn't be that hard. I'd also place Ultimate Reed Richards above him. then there's Doom. Reed isn't even rebuilding the multiverse alone.[/QUOTE]
We know Reed is smarter than Doom. It's why Reed gets to recreate the multiverse after Doom botched the job.
[QUOTE=Wulf1984;2256425]Hahaha! Just like how every X-Man is some Omega-level mutant with leadership capabilities.
[B]I'll believe it when heroes start visiting Moon Girl for scientific help and advice or Doctor Doom starts beefing with her because she's smarter than he is.[/B][/QUOTE]
I suppose when that happens, some will default to the predictable accusations of "jobbing out established characters to boost newbies" at that juncture.
[QUOTE=Namor'sWrath;2256871]We know Reed is smarter than Doom. It's why Reed gets to recreate the multiverse after Doom botched the job.[/QUOTE]
all that proves is that Reed is better at interior design. Reed failed to solve the incursion problem; where Doom succeeded. you think Reed would ever have come up with the idea to create his own religion/set himself up as God?
I cannot wait to see who they put her up against given that Bruce Banner, Reed Richards and Hank Pym aren't on Earth anymore.
Who knows what is Tony Stark's true fate and who knows if she'll get T'challa a call ?
[QUOTE=Michael Watkins;2257128]all that proves is that Reed is better at interior design. Reed failed to solve the incursion problem; where Doom succeeded. [B]you think Reed would ever have come up with the idea to create his own religion/set himself up as God?[/B][/QUOTE]
No, because that was a bad idea, seeing how it all turned out.
But I will agree that Doom is smarter than Lunella as well. Nothing against her, she's very bright, but Reed and Doom are on another level from everyone.
If that's what they're doing with Moon Girl it makes her a whole lot [B]less[/B] interesting to me. Whenever they do that to get a character over and boost them to ludicrous levels it makes me think that the writers can't think of anything else to make the character palatable than make them into a Mary Sue. I don't mind them doing that to villains since having a credible threat is essential but just boosting heroes willy nilly seems silly.
Also getting characters all [I]the action[/I] annoys me. Every time I'd read about Wolverine bagging another female it would annoy me. The guy's 5'3", not really charismatic and he probably smells really bad all the time. Can you imagine Logan's breath? Smoking those cigars? I'm sure he has terrible dental hygiene.
I just want to note something: "Smart" is often used to indicate a person's potential. There's a lot of brilliant people who never amounted to anything, whether due to lack of opportunity, lack of motivation, or any number of reasons. There very well may be someone out there who's smarter than Stephen Hawking, but who's spent their whole life shoveling shit for a circus. Or they dedicated themselves to fields where their intelligence didn't lend itself to fame and glory.
So when Marvel declares Moon Girl the Smartest Person in the World, of course they're not saying she's accomplished more than other geniuses. They're seeing she has the potential to accomplish more.
As far as demonstrations of her intelligence: She's a 9-year-old girl with minimal resources who built a secret lab beneath her school, complete with advanced computers capable of monitoring for the Terrigen Cloud. She built a device to help her track down Kree technology, and seemed pretty confident she could use the Kree technology to prevent being affected by Terrigenesis. She's built a whole bunch of little gadgets out of whatever she could find. Saying her intelligence hasn't been shown is just plain wrong. It is factually incorrect. It is clear that she is an absolutely brilliant girl, a genuine, bonafide genius of the highest order. That she's not an expert on every field under the sun does not diminish how smart she is. It just means she's still young and hasn't had the chance to learn a lot yet.
And yeah yeah, "then they should say she has the potential to be the smartest," whatever. That's a semantic argument. People often talk about how smart a person is to indicate their potential.
And the key thing to remember: This is an all-ages book meant to appeal to a non-traditional audience. It's meant to appeal to the kind of audience who doesn't obsess over "feats" and poring over old comics to determine specific rankings of who's smarter or stronger or faster than whom. Is this meant as an attention-grabbing thing? Yep! It sure as hell is! [I]Because Marvel is a goddamn business and wants to sell comics and wants to sell comics to people who don't normally buy comics![/I] And they need to get attention to do that. So wah wah, Marvel's hurting your feelings by saying that a 9-year-old black girl is smarter than a bunch of old white dudes, boo hoo, tough shit. Don't like it? Don't read the book. It's not like it's going to be getting referenced elsewhere. It's not like the Avengers are going to turn to Moon Girl for help. Dr. Doom won't be asking her to help him improve his armour. The odds of her appearing as anything more than an extra in any other comic over the next couple years are pretty low. So if you're not reading her title, then all this shit [I]is completely frigging meaningless to you[/I]. And if you are reading her title, then it's because you enjoy what Reeder, Montclare, Bustos and Bonvillain are doing, and they're going to keep doing what they're doing, so if you've enjoyed it so far you'll continue to enjoy it.
The senseless bitching of entitled fanboys gets so ridiculous.
Edit: I may as well note that I haven't read the article, because it won't load. Hell of a site CBR runs.
[QUOTE=Tiamatty;2257724]I just want to note something: "Smart" is often used to indicate a person's potential. There's a lot of brilliant people who never amounted to anything, whether due to lack of opportunity, lack of motivation, or any number of reasons. There very well may be someone out there who's smarter than Stephen Hawking, but who's spent their whole life shoveling shit for a circus. Or they dedicated themselves to fields where their intelligence didn't lend itself to fame and glory.
So when Marvel declares Moon Girl the Smartest Person in the World, of course they're not saying she's accomplished more than other geniuses. They're seeing she has the potential to accomplish more.
As far as demonstrations of her intelligence: She's a 9-year-old girl with minimal resources who built a secret lab beneath her school, complete with advanced computers capable of monitoring for the Terrigen Cloud. She built a device to help her track down Kree technology, and seemed pretty confident she could use the Kree technology to prevent being affected by Terrigenesis. She's built a whole bunch of little gadgets out of whatever she could find. Saying her intelligence hasn't been shown is just plain wrong. It is factually incorrect. It is clear that she is an absolutely brilliant girl, a genuine, bonafide genius of the highest order. That she's not an expert on every field under the sun does not diminish how smart she is. It just means she's still young and hasn't had the chance to learn a lot yet.
And yeah yeah, "then they should say she has the potential to be the smartest," whatever. That's a semantic argument. People often talk about how smart a person is to indicate their potential.
And the key thing to remember: This is an all-ages book meant to appeal to a non-traditional audience. It's meant to appeal to the kind of audience who doesn't obsess over "feats" and poring over old comics to determine specific rankings of who's smarter or stronger or faster than whom. Is this meant as an attention-grabbing thing? Yep! It sure as hell is! [I]Because Marvel is a goddamn business and wants to sell comics and wants to sell comics to people who don't normally buy comics![/I] And they need to get attention to do that. So wah wah, Marvel's hurting your feelings by saying that a 9-year-old black girl is smarter than a bunch of old white dudes, boo hoo, tough shit. Don't like it? Don't read the book. It's not like it's going to be getting referenced elsewhere. It's not like the Avengers are going to turn to Moon Girl for help. Dr. Doom won't be asking her to help him improve his armour. The odds of her appearing as anything more than an extra in any other comic over the next couple years are pretty low. So if you're not reading her title, then all this shit [I]is completely frigging meaningless to you[/I]. And if you are reading her title, then it's because you enjoy what Reeder, Montclare, Bustos and Bonvillain are doing, and they're going to keep doing what they're doing, so if you've enjoyed it so far you'll continue to enjoy it.
The senseless bitching of entitled fanboys gets so ridiculous.
Edit: I may as well note that I haven't read the article, because it won't load. Hell of a site CBR runs.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not saying she's not smart, I'm saying she's not as smart as the dude recreating the multiverse. And that's really not an insult.
Wouldn't have mattered as much if Marvel began writing her speaking like a scientific genius right from the start by using a writer as Hickman or Ellis.
But smartest person in the Marvel U with her still being in elementary school among her peers? No university? Parents can't at least put her in an academic school with kids her age?
No wonder entitled fanboys are pissed off at this obvious lazy push for the newest IP destined for a cartoon if not movie.