X-23 Appreciation Post: My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel

[QUOTE=Moondoggie;19433]Yeah she has always had a particular way of talking due to her upbringing, being very educated and reading a lot of books. As soon as i see her say something "sucks" i cringed because it feels so random for her to say. It could be argued that after spending time around young mutants she picked up some slang but i doubt she would. You can have growth without having a character transplant. Her educated speach and straight to the point attitude is what makes her appealing if you change all that she stops being X-23.[/QUOTE]

I'm not even wholly opposed to see Laura (slowly) adopt more slang in her vocabulary over time. But I'd want it to be made clear she doesn't quite have the hang of it or isn't comfortable with it because it's not natural to her, so initially she'd use it weirdly or out-of-context, or just plain using the wrong words at the wrong time (think D'Argo and Aeryn on FarScape. Aeryn's first attempt at earth slang: "She gives me a woody," about a creepy character, when she actually meant "She gives the willies.") and then slowly get better at it.

The key being, "slowly."

As for how she's drawn in the books...

I actually kind of liked the way she was drawn in NYX. For one, I like when artists use the goth look for her; it just suits her. But she also seemed like such a small and vulnerable little thing. And then the claws come out and she's tearing your ass apart. That somehow really seems to work for me with the idea of her being the ultimate assassin; She's tiny, unassuming, and doesn't appear to be a threat at all. It makes her far more likely to be overlooked by a security sweep and let her get close to a target.

I did like the way Choi drew her in Target: X as well. Funny how she only wore that particular corset/miniskirt/fishnets outfit once, and it's still one of her most iconic looks.

Love X-23. But they need to retcon that terrible prostituting origin.

[QUOTE=Ambaryerno;20133]I'm not even wholly opposed to see Laura (slowly) adopt more slang in her vocabulary over time. But I'd want it to be made clear she doesn't quite have the hang of it or isn't comfortable with it because it's not natural to her, so initially she'd use it weirdly or out-of-context, or just plain using the wrong words at the wrong time (think D'Argo and Aeryn on FarScape. Aeryn's first attempt at earth slang: "She gives me a woody," about a creepy character, when she actually meant "She gives the willies.") and then slowly get better at it.

The key being, "slowly."[/QUOTE]

That actually would be a perfect Jubilee/Laura thing to have going on. Jubilee always knows what's hip and all that and i can just imagine Laura saying something really odd with slang only to have Jubes correct her. Sort of like John Connor and Terminator in Terminator 2 but actually sort of cute and not at all creepy XD

[QUOTE=KurtW95;20175]Love X-23. But they need to retcon that terrible prostituting origin.[/QUOTE]

Didn't they already sort of start on that? They got it down to implying she never had sex with guys only used her claws to appeal to some masochists fetishes. The prostitute thing is still a little bit quizical to me and around a time when they didn't actually have any direction on what to do with her she was just in stuff. It seems weird for her to get side tracked so easily into working for a pimp when her Mother literally gave her the mission to find Wolverine and get help from him. She must have had his address since her Mother was able to send a letter. Why didn't she either go to the school directly or call and ask Wolverine to pick her up? It'd be probably easier if Nyx never happened the one thing it did was give Laura her taste in black clothes. I guess it makes her easier to be sympathetic to as a character but she already has that with the back story she has she never chose to kill like Wolverine did.

[QUOTE=Ambaryerno;4044]Anyway, the pics I'd used on my thread:


[img]http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/134/6/0/x_23_lost_childhood_by_dannith-d4zpl49.jpg[/img]
Gotta be one of my favorite pieces of fan art. Dannith absolutely NAILS her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DakenGirl;4241][CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/bP2NHwR.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DakenGirl;4295][CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tojUbaT.jpg[/IMG]

[/QUOTE]

Love all these images.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]579[/ATTACH]

Sana Takeda, although sometimes it seems that everyone is glowing

[QUOTE=Ambaryerno;20133]I'm not even wholly opposed to see Laura (slowly) adopt more slang in her vocabulary over time. But I'd want it to be made clear she doesn't quite have the hang of it or isn't comfortable with it because it's not natural to her, so initially she'd use it weirdly or out-of-context, or just plain using the wrong words at the wrong time (think D'Argo and Aeryn on FarScape. Aeryn's first attempt at earth slang: "She gives me a woody," about a creepy character, when she actually meant "She gives the willies.") and then slowly get better at it.

The key being, "slowly."

As for how she's drawn in the books...

I actually kind of liked the way she was drawn in NYX. For one, I like when artists use the goth look for her; it just suits her. But she also seemed like such a small and vulnerable little thing. And then the claws come out and she's tearing your ass apart. That somehow really seems to work for me with the idea of her being the ultimate assassin; She's tiny, unassuming, and doesn't appear to be a threat at all. It makes her far more likely to be overlooked by a security sweep and let her get close to a target.

I did like the way Choi drew her in Target: X as well. Funny how she only wore that particular corset/miniskirt/fishnets outfit once, and it's still one of her most iconic looks.[/QUOTE]

This, so so much this. Character growth or evolution is a process and watching unfold is the best part of character driven stories.
And you're totally awesome for referencing Farscape.

X-Claws Girls. :D

[img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/AlinaUrusovX-23andHollow.jpg[/img]

By Alina Urusov.

Jubilee with her two besties:

[img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g87/betaflight/KalmanAndrasofszkyX23HollowandJubilee.jpg[/img]

By Kalman Andrasofszky.

X-23's claws go "SNIKT," too, right? All-New X-Men #26 didn't have a sound.

[URL=http://s63.photobucket.com/user/loudlysilent/media/All-NewX-Men26YoungWarrenX-23_zpsf445a02d.png.html][IMG]http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h156/loudlysilent/All-NewX-Men26YoungWarrenX-23_zpsf445a02d.png[/IMG][/URL]

[QUOTE=Moondoggie;20231]
Didn't they already sort of start on that? They got it down to implying she never had sex with guys only used her claws to appeal to some masochists fetishes. The prostitute thing is still a little bit quizical to me and around a time when they didn't actually have any direction on what to do with her she was just in stuff. It seems weird for her to get side tracked so easily into working for a pimp when her Mother literally gave her the mission to find Wolverine and get help from him. She must have had his address since her Mother was able to send a letter. Why didn't she either go to the school directly or call and ask Wolverine to pick her up? It'd be probably easier if Nyx never happened the one thing it did was give Laura her taste in black clothes. I guess it makes her easier to be sympathetic to as a character but she already has that with the back story she has she never chose to kill like Wolverine did.[/QUOTE]

They made it clear in Target: X Laura wasn't able to read Sarah's letter because her (Sarah's) blood all over it made it completely illegible. It was only after she finally did track down Logan that she ever got to read it. I imagine the only reason she knew how to find Megan and Debbie was because Sarah took her there when Megan was kidnapped, and Laura remembered the address. Finding the Xavier school probably wasn't too hard, either, especially since we see Laura watching a news report showing the mansion in Target: X.

As for NYX/Zebra Daddy:

I find it makes no sense considering what we see in NYX that Laura only cut her clients, as the book itself makes it VERY clear Laura's job went beyond that. I also don't think she used her claws: Daddy didn't know she had them (otherwise, why ask her what she was using to cut HERSELF with?) and we saw at least one of her Johns brought his own knife with him. In this case, I think it's more Laura's skill/experience that mattered, not what she was using.

While I'd love to see an explanation for how she fell under Daddy's control, I think in some ways it actually makes sense. Laura's demonstrated she has a very submissive personality and CAN be dominated by authority figures who don't push her too far (I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reason she didn't decline Cyclops's invitation to join X-Force. "He's in charge, he's asking, therefore I need to do it"). She could have killed Rice in a heartbeat any time she was alone with him, but she didn't. She submitted and did as she was told. But considering she's beating on him for TEN FRELLING MINUTES without her claws when Sarah finally ordered her to kill him it's clear she REALLY wanted to do that. Daddy is also certainly quite a dominant personality. Considering he's running an independent operation in the same city as the freakin' KINGPIN he's more than just a simple thug, which means a bit of authority is all it takes for Laura to submit to him. She's ALSO demonstrated that she'll respond to being treated with kindness, again, because she's so used to being hurt and abused it's initially something of a novelty to be shown affection (which I think is part of why Logan was able to talk her down when she tried to kill him and herself in Target: X).

Therefore, my theory is this:

After escaping Kimura, Laura takes Debbie and Megan from San Francisco to the US/Canada border where they leave to go into hiding (Target: X). This was something of a last straw for Laura: she's now lost the last of the family she knows about and has left, and the experience breaks her entirely. Eventually she winds up homeless and alone on the streets of New York City. At some point she encounters Zebra Daddy. Looking for more "talent" as part of his empire, he takes her under his wing and shows her a bit of kindness, giving her a place to stay, food, and a sense of belonging again. Laura's not used to being treated so well, so she starts to become attached to him. Eventually he starts putting pressure on her to "earn her keep." At first she resists, and that's when Daddy's abusive side starts to surface: Laura's been conditioned almost since birth to submit to authority, and so she submits to Daddy as well. It's not at all helped that Daddy can switch from psychotically abusive to sweet and affectionate on a whim, which is almost certainly confusing to her. It's just another tool to keep her under control: Laura tries to please him to keep him happy and affectionate, but he can turn abusive at need to keep her in line (and she endures it because she was raised to submit). This is actually a VERY realistic depiction of how men like Daddy operate in real life: a little kindness to lure the girls in, and that's when the abuse starts to keep them in line. It actually almost makes him a more frightening villain.

Meeting with Kiden and her group starts to wake her up again inside. For the first time since she lost Megan and Debbie she's among people who treat her kindly and expect nothing in return. Daddy threatening them was the last straw breaking his hold over her. Afterwards, Laura is probably confused, ashamed, and just tired of it all, and that's the point where she decides to track down Logan intending to put an end to Weapon X altogether by killing him before committing suicide herself.

There were several artists that painted her very well, but I like Miss Takeda's artwork of Laura best. I will add at this point she painted the rest of Laura's crew extremely well. I will never understand how she managed to make the characters so ridiculously beautiful while still giving them very distinctive faces. She also proportioned the characters' bodies much more realistically than comicbook/manga artists usually do. (Laura's arms were surprisingly large while still looking very natural) All by herself I might add.

[QUOTE=Ambaryerno;20741]They made it clear in Target: X Laura wasn't able to read Sarah's letter because her (Sarah's) blood all over it made it completely illegible. It was only after she finally did track down Logan that she ever got to read it. I imagine the only reason she knew how to find Megan and Debbie was because Sarah took her there when Megan was kidnapped, and Laura remembered the address. Finding the Xavier school probably wasn't too hard, either, especially since we see Laura watching a news report showing the mansion in Target: X.

As for NYX/Zebra Daddy:

I find it makes no sense considering what we see in NYX that Laura only cut her clients, as the book itself makes it VERY clear Laura's job went beyond that. I also don't think she used her claws: Daddy didn't know she had them (otherwise, why ask her what she was using to cut HERSELF with?) and we saw at least one of her Johns brought his own knife with him. In this case, I think it's more Laura's skill/experience that mattered, not what she was using.

While I'd love to see an explanation for how she fell under Daddy's control, I think in some ways it actually makes sense. Laura's demonstrated she has a very submissive personality and CAN be dominated by authority figures who don't push her too far (I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reason she didn't decline Cyclops's invitation to join X-Force. "He's in charge, he's asking, therefore I need to do it"). She could have killed Rice in a heartbeat any time she was alone with him, but she didn't. She submitted and did as she was told. But considering she's beating on him for TEN FRELLING MINUTES without her claws when Sarah finally ordered her to kill him it's clear she REALLY wanted to do that. Daddy is also certainly quite a dominant personality. Considering he's running an independent operation in the same city as the freakin' KINGPIN he's more than just a simple thug, which means a bit of authority is all it takes for Laura to submit to him. She's ALSO demonstrated that she'll respond to being treated with kindness, again, because she's so used to being hurt and abused it's initially something of a novelty to be shown affection (which I think is part of why Logan was able to talk her down when she tried to kill him and herself in Target: X).

Therefore, my theory is this:

After escaping Kimura, Laura takes Debbie and Megan from San Francisco to the US/Canada border where they leave to go into hiding (Target: X). This was something of a last straw for Laura: she's now lost the last of the family she knows about and has left, and the experience breaks her entirely. Eventually she winds up homeless and alone on the streets of New York City. At some point she encounters Zebra Daddy. Looking for more "talent" as part of his empire, he takes her under his wing and shows her a bit of kindness, giving her a place to stay, food, and a sense of belonging again. Laura's not used to being treated so well, so she starts to become attached to him. Eventually he starts putting pressure on her to "earn her keep." At first she resists, and that's when Daddy's abusive side starts to surface: Laura's been conditioned almost since birth to submit to authority, and so she submits to Daddy as well. It's not at all helped that Daddy can switch from psychotically abusive to sweet and affectionate on a whim, which is almost certainly confusing to her. It's just another tool to keep her under control: Laura tries to please him to keep him happy and affectionate, but he can turn abusive at need to keep her in line (and she endures it because she was raised to submit). This is actually a VERY realistic depiction of how men like Daddy operate in real life: a little kindness to lure the girls in, and that's when the abuse starts to keep them in line. It actually almost makes him a more frightening villain.

Meeting with Kiden and her group starts to wake her up again inside. For the first time since she lost Megan and Debbie she's among people who treat her kindly and expect nothing in return. Daddy threatening them was the last straw breaking his hold over her. Afterwards, Laura is probably confused, ashamed, and just tired of it all, and that's the point where she decides to track down Logan intending to put an end to Weapon X altogether by killing him before committing suicide herself.[/QUOTE]

Target X just makes the situation even more confusing because she escaped, Ended up with family then was found and escaped capture again sending her family to a safe house. She tracked down Logan and got to read her letter then was captured by Shield. Captain America had a change of heart and released her telling her to go find Logan and somewhere in between that she joins the school and then leaves and eventually becomes homeless and a prostitute i dunno her timeline is all really screwed up basically because Target X exists. I guess it's a little easier if you scrub out her first stint with the X Men pre New X Men although it makes her first scene in that confusing where Logan calls her and convinces her to return to the school and give things another try.

I can sort of understand how she might be taken in by a pimp but it just seems unlikely when she knows she has the X Men and i'm sure it's not that hard to get their phone number from Captain America or something so i really don't get her mindset of not going straight there unless you count her first uncanny appearances as when she went to the school but then she was shown to have been living on the street there too before they found her so yeah screwed up timeline XD.

[QUOTE=Moondoggie;21149]
I can sort of understand how she might be taken in by a pimp but it just seems unlikely when she knows she has the X Men and i'm sure it's not that hard to get their phone number from Captain America or something so i really don't get her mindset of not going straight there unless you count her first uncanny appearances as when she went to the school but then she was shown to have been living on the street there too before they found her so yeah screwed up timeline XD.[/QUOTE]



I don't know, I think with the prostitution, she's already used to not thinking of her body as belonging to her - she was taught by the facility and particularly Kimura that she doesn't belong to herself, so it's not like back then she had any real value for herself or her body - not that it didn't make what she was doing distressing to her, but she's used to doing things that distress her.

As to why she didn't go find the x-men - I think maybe a lack of trust? They're an organisation she doesn't know much about. And then there's Logan, and while he does want to do right by her I think, he's not exactly overjoyed to see her. Also, she is Wolverine's clone (or half clone? :/) and while he's fine working in a team now, and living with other people, he was/is a loner. Laura's last experience at a school with Debbie wasn't a particularly positive one either, and I think maybe the thought of having to live and learn to deal with large amounts of people might have just been too overwhelming for her.

I think Target: X works better if you assume a time gap between certain events. My personal theory is her background is as follows:

1) Innocence Lost, and all events of Target: X set during this time period (using the timeline/dates established by Innocence Lost, as Target: X has Laura's age off from anywhere from 2-4 years from the earlier series).

2) Laura establishes herself with her cousin Megan and Aunt Debbie. Kimura tracks her through a Facility plant/Debbie's boyfriend, but the three escape and Debbie and Megan are sent into hiding (Target: X)

3) Zebra Daddy finds Laura in New York and lures her under his control. The events of NYX then lead her to wanting to end her life.

4) Laura approaches Logan but is talked down from murder-suicide. She's then attacked by Captain America and captured by SHIELD (Target: X).

5) Framing story of Target X (Laura is interrogated by Cap and Daredevil). Cap acknowledges Laura was a victim and SHIELD would just use her like the Facility did, so lets her go.

6) Laura joins the X-Men (NXM)

Admittedly, it works better if you ignore her time in the Claremont run entirely, but from what I know of it her time under Claremont has largely been retconned or just disregarded, anyway. AFAIK the Claremont period only receives limited mention, anyway, and nothing plot-relevant to later books (it only takes a minor retcon to her phone conversation with Logan in NXM to "fix").

[img]http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/521/259489_20121025113035_large.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Art School Dropout;21954][img]http://www.comicbookdb.com/graphics/comic_graphics/1/521/259489_20121025113035_large.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

I've always loved that particular outfit. Probably way better than putting hairy Wolverine in pink...