Even if Mark Waid ends up being the writer...were can we go from here?
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Even if Mark Waid ends up being the writer...were can we go from here?
Bruh you really made your post into its own thread? ;)
What are you asking specifically? There’s lots of directions it can go. They can undo everything and go back to Superdad living on the farm, having his kid call him “sir”, and going on field trips to D.C. They can continue to keep Clark outed and just roll with Superman no longer having a secret identity, focus on Clark building up the United Planets. They could kill Clark off and have Kenan, Jon, or Kon take over as Superman. They can do a half measure and pick and chose what to keep like DC loves to do, undoing the reveal and deaging Jon but keeping everything else. They can revamp Superman’s villains, or shut down the Daily Planet, or do literally anything. What are you looking for exactly?
Prime asks a question I think more than a few fans are asking right now. In my case, I am asking if of everything DC. As for where it can go, I suppose anywhere especially now that the haters among TPTB are gone and they are actually planning to use the hypertime concept.
Where would I like to see them go?
I would like to see the exploration of alternative continuation of things like New Krypton. I suppose they could have a verse dedicated to the future state to continue this era of cosmic doorknobs and clarkless SuperDad. But it really will be more about anthology like collections of separate, disparate yarns that have nothing to do with one another.
So that means we can follow a fully realized, fully powered version of Superman in a high concept sort of verse. And we can check in on all the others.
The franchise can really go anywhere, there isn't much continuity to be bound by i recent rumors are ture. Hard to really speculate at the moment.
After Bendis there's no where to go but up i mean the now is already trash can't possibly get much worse
I vote for "heroin addicted jazz singer". Shake things up a bit.
I vote for sent into another world and went on adventure with dumb goddess, explosion maniac, and masochist.
[QUOTE=Laufeyson;5235928]I vote for sent into another world and went on adventure with dumb goddess, explosion maniac, and masochist.[/QUOTE]
That's a reference to something I don't recognize, isn't it?
Honestly I think if anything from the Bendis run has an indication of what to do in the future, it’s the super family and the United Planets. Superman’s identity is already fully out there and is acknowledged as representative of earth, so run with that.
Have Superman deal with cosmic politics and other races as he attempts to build towards the future with the Legion of Superheroes he knows from his childhood, in other words he’s aware of the future and his dream is to get the universe there but that comes with a lot of trials and complications, such as warring species, various lantern corps, the new planet Kryptonite run by Zod, and etc. I’m thinking Lois would go with him and be a united planets news correspondent to earth.
Now that draws into question if he’s out in space whose protecting earth? Well first Superman can still make it back to earth because of either his speed or what I can only assume is some Justice League transportation but just in case the Super-family is on the patrol. Run by Steel (John Irons) and Supergirl they lead Natasha Irons, Conner Kent, Jon Kent, Krypto, and maybe even some of the others like Kenan Kong or some other multiversal Supermen that operate as a team that switches in for Superman while he’s away on business.
[QUOTE=superduperman;5235974]That's a reference to something I don't recognize, isn't it?[/QUOTE]
Yep. You can search 'dumb goddess, explosion maniac, and masochist' on google and I am sure you will find it immediately. But, in seriousness. I think it's supposed to be a new era for Superman. Now, his secret is out, he is exiled to another planet, and his son is Superman is bottled city. Maybe this is time to set up the Legion of Superheroes from his cosmic adventures and politic. It's also time for Superman to learn the big picture of the cosmic DC universe and guide them to form the intergalactic council.
I don't know, it might be a good timing for that.
Jon role I think is supposed to be setting up the new El dynasty with upholding Superman's legacy on Earth. But... I don't know, to be honest I don't really care about his book the most, because it feels like the weakest of all Future State Superman books.
[QUOTE=Laufeyson;5236091]Yep. You can search 'dumb goddess, explosion maniac, and masochist' on google and I am sure you will find it immediately. But, in seriousness. I think it's supposed to be a new era for Superman. Now, his secret is out, he is exiled to another planet, and his son is Superman is bottled city. Maybe this is time to set up the Legion of Superheroes from his cosmic adventures and politic. It's also time for Superman to learn the big picture of the cosmic DC universe and guide them to form the intergalactic council.
I don't know, it might be a good timing for that.
Jon role I think is supposed to be setting up the new El dynasty with upholding Superman's legacy on Earth. But... I don't know, to be honest I don't really care about his book the most, because it feels like the weakest of all Future State Superman books.[/QUOTE]
There's something I don't want in my search history. Lol
[QUOTE=DragonPiece;5235841]The franchise can really go anywhere, there isn't much continuity to be bound by i recent rumors are ture. Hard to really speculate at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Wait what do you mean?
[QUOTE=Prime;5237457]Wait what do you mean?[/QUOTE]
There is a rumor that DC will abandon shared continuity and play more into individual hero continuity.
[QUOTE=Laufeyson;5237595]There is a rumor that DC will abandon shared continuity and play more into individual hero continuity.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't that meant that the last 30 years have been pointless?
[QUOTE=Prime;5237601]Doesn't that meant that the last 30 years have been pointless?[/QUOTE]
That's... I don't know. Bleeding Cool reported that the continuities will be divided into omniversal where each heroes will have their own universe with their own continuities. So in the most optimistic way of thinking there might be a new set of universe that will be appeared that DC will focus on leaving the shared universe behind, or in the worst case, it will be a hard reboot in the same vein as the Flashpoint.
[QUOTE=Laufeyson;5237595]There is a rumor that DC will abandon shared continuity and play more into individual hero continuity.[/QUOTE]
I hasten to add that DC was hyping up something like this for DCYou, and all the happened was Johns JL ignored the status quo of Batman and Superman. I don’t think it will be as extreme as rumors make it out to be.
[QUOTE=Prime;5237601]Doesn't that meant that the last 30 years have been pointless?[/QUOTE]
Vast swaths of DC continuity are already pointless. Byrne’s stuff is out and has been for a while. They retconned WW’s origin [B]again[/B], meaning Rucka’s origin got retconned out. Nothing from Pre-FP Aquaman has carried over. The past 30 years continuity is already patchy at best.
whats an omniverse again? i thought the metal stuff was being called depressoverse. Or am i off about that too?
edit: apparently depressoverse was just a joke from Morrison's GL, lol and Laufeyson you were right wbout the rest, thanks.
[QUOTE=OpaqueGiraffe17;5237873]whats an omniverse again? i thought the metal stuff was being called depressoverse. Or am i off about that too?[/QUOTE]
The Omniverse is everything while the Metal is Multiverse. The Omniverse of DC will encompass everything whether it's the 52 main Universes or the Dark Multiverse. So you are right quite right on track at that.
[QUOTE] I hasten to add that DC was hyping up something like this for DCYou, and all the happened was Johns JL ignored the status quo of Batman and Superman. I don’t think it will be as extreme as rumors make it out to be. [/QUOTE]
I hope this is what happens because while DC is not a house built on shared continuity like Marvel is, it's still have 30+ years of shared continuity, so it will be the same if all of those years are thrown away.
With pre crisis Superboy and Dominus coming back... I know Generations or whatever is just another fleeting thing but I hope we're getting a future uncapped
Idk about the main continuity Superman but I'd like to see the Future Slate SuperGladiator thing become and ongoing bit. Also bring back Kenan Kong and JLC.
It can go anywhere and do anything... Up, Up and Away!
Uh... but as far as Mark Waid's run, I don't know. I have listened to a few of his interviews recently and I'm pretty sure he mentioned that he was re-reading old Superboy and Legion stuff. What does it mean? Maybe more Silver Age stuff? I'm not sure what Waid's opinion on the past decade of Superman books is, but it might inform what direction he wants to go in.
[QUOTE=km_sus;5238518]It can go anywhere and do anything... Up, Up and Away!
Uh... but as far as Mark Waid's run, I don't know. I have listened to a few of his interviews recently and I'm pretty sure he mentioned that he was re-reading old Superboy and Legion stuff. What does it mean? Maybe more Silver Age stuff? I'm not sure what Waid's opinion on the past decade of Superman books is, but it might inform what direction he wants to go in.[/QUOTE]
He strongly disliked Byrne’s reboot, and was part of the Superman 2000 brain trust that pitched a pretty radical overhaul of the character. Creatively I’d say Kurt Busiek and Grant Morrison are the two people who are similar in viewpoint to Waid. That said Waid isn’t a blind Silver Age fanboy, at least not in my eyes. He’s the one who pushed Wally and Bart to new heights, and likes Wally more than Barry. His Birthright origin was far more “modern” than say Johns Secret Origin was. His Legion of Superheroes revamp was definitely not the Silver Age or the Giffen Legions.
So he’d definitely bring back some Pre Crisis stuff, maybe he’d kill the Kents off down the road (he prefers them dead), but who knows? Maybe he won’t do any of that. Very interested to see what his “Last Days” story for Superman in the upcoming Death Metal tie-in is like.
I’m not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to older comics. I know a bit about the Crisis story from the 80’s. (A friend gave me his collected edition to read once. I couldn’t finish the first issue. ). Anyway, I worry when I see comments that Waid might introduce pre-Crisis elements. Shouldn’t comics go forward and not bring ideas back from so long ago? I’ve seen some older comics and they’re brutal. I don’t want to read about evil scientists, giant robots, & secret identities. If whoever replace Bendis doesn’t build in his work, I’m out. Writers should be about exploring new ground to me.
[QUOTE=Stick Figure;5238936]I’m not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to older comics. I know a bit about the Crisis story from the 80’s. (A friend gave me his collected edition to read once. I couldn’t finish the first issue. ). Anyway, I worry when I see comments that Waid might introduce pre-Crisis elements. Shouldn’t comics go forward and not bring ideas back from so long ago? I’ve seen some older comics and they’re brutal. I don’t want to read about evil scientists, giant robots, & secret identities. If whoever replace Bendis doesn’t build in his work, I’m out. Writers should be about exploring new ground to me.[/QUOTE]
Creators often draw ideas from the period of a character they think was "best". This period is usually the period of time they got into comics. Didio is often criticised for trying his hardest to revert the characters to the ideas and status quo from around the 70's. Many of his business practices come from this time too, ironically. Tynion is also doing something similar for his Batman run. Since he got into Batman during the late 90's/early 2000's he prefers Barbara as Oracle and tries to push characters like Tim and Cassandra back into relevancy.
To answer your question more directly - writers only wish to reintroduce the characters and status quo of the period they like, but not necessarily the way they were written and their ideas/tropes. We're far removed from that antiquated style of storytelling at this point (although I do enjoy the camp).
I agree about moving forward to new ground too, but it just doesn't seem to happen often, for whatever reason. If I had to attribute a reason, it would most likely be negative fan reception. There's a fair contingent of people who dislike the introduction of Jon as Clark's son. On the other hand, many dislike Bendis and Clark revealing his identity to the world. Perhaps the reason there is so little forward momentum to explore new areas and ideas of a character is because constant negative fan reaction to every little change hinders the process too much?
[QUOTE=Stick Figure;5238936]I’m not the most knowledgeable person when it comes to older comics. I know a bit about the Crisis story from the 80’s. (A friend gave me his collected edition to read once. I couldn’t finish the first issue. ). Anyway, I worry when I see comments that Waid might introduce pre-Crisis elements. Shouldn’t comics go forward and not bring ideas back from so long ago? I’ve seen some older comics and they’re brutal. I don’t want to read about evil scientists, giant robots, & secret identities. If whoever replace Bendis doesn’t build in his work, I’m out. Writers should be about exploring new ground to me.[/QUOTE]
Dude how can you not like giant robots! Are Sentinels not cool as hell for you? :p
That said Waid isn’t going to go back to the [I]storytelling methods[/I] of Pre-Crisis. A good example of what Waid would do is Johns revamp of Brainiac. Johns restored Brainiac to how he was Pre-Crisis, an alien flying around in a skull-ship who abducted cities from other worlds including Kandor. But he also revamped him in that Brainiac abducted cities for the purpose of increasing his knowledge and evolution, gave him the ability to “body surf” into different forms, and basically helped show how some of the old concepts still could work.
Morrison did something similar with his Kryptonite Man revamp. Clay Ramses was a wife beater who volunteered to be turned into K-Man for the purpose of beating the location of his wife out of Superman. Now he had a topical motive for fighting Superman that was just lust for power or hating Superman for being good.
Waid would do stuff like that and has already. His Birthright origin brought back Lex and Clark knowing each other as kids and is the best modern rendition of that development. He’d do new stuff though, Superman 2000 was packed full of new ideas and revamps. His Daredevil run had a ton of new ideas and helped move Murdock forward, or so I understand as I haven’t read it.
[QUOTE=Vordan;5237696]I hasten to add that DC was hyping up something like this for DCYou, and all the happened was Johns JL ignored the status quo of Batman and Superman. I don’t think it will be as extreme as rumors make it out to be.
Vast swaths of DC continuity are already pointless. Byrne’s stuff is out and has been for a while. They retconned WW’s origin [B]again[/B], meaning Rucka’s origin got retconned out. Nothing from Pre-FP Aquaman has carried over. The past 30 years continuity is already patchy at best.[/QUOTE]
Wondy's had another origin after Rebirth?
[QUOTE=Stanlos;5239762]Wondy's had another origin after Rebirth?[/QUOTE]
No they just rendered her current origin impossible, which is typical DC bullshit. She apparently debuted during WW2 which means the Rucka origin could not have happened given that’s set in the modern day.
[QUOTE=Vordan;5239772]No they just rendered her current origin impossible, which is typical DC bullshit. She apparently debuted during WW2 which means the Rucka origin could not have happened given that’s set in the modern day.[/QUOTE]
Not if you explain it as the Olympian Gods temporarily folding time back on itself so that Diana can be reunited with Steve Trevor, who'd died back in the 1950s or something. There's plenty of ways for creators (and readers) to have their cake and eat it, too. Just takes a little imagination and regularly occurring time shenanigans to explain anything you want away. ;)
Maybe DC's approach in 2021 will be just to say that every superhero (and every villain) has at aleast a dozen different origin stories, and they're [I]all true[/I]. Now, here's what happens next...
[QUOTE=Bored at 3:00AM;5240187]Not if you explain it as the Olympian Gods temporarily folding time back on itself so that Diana can be reunited with Steve Trevor, who'd died back in the 1950s or something. There's plenty of ways for creators (and readers) to have their cake and eat it, too. Just takes a little imagination and regularly occurring time shenanigans to explain anything you want away. ;)[/QUOTE]
Except that’s insanely convoluted and on par with “Time Trapper made a parallel pocket universe to explain why Superboy was able to hang out with the Legion post Byrne” and Donna Troy’s origins. Those kinds of convoluted explanations don’t work because they make stuff over complicated for the casuals. Trying to have your cake and eat it hasn’t worked for DC so far.
The whole reason for the change was movie synergy. Movie synergy doesn’t work the moment you go “it’s just like that movie you saw [I]but[/I]...” because the “but” is always something off putting to newcomers. That’s my opinion anyway, me, I’m just disappointed because I don’t think whatever new origin Diana gets is going to be better than what Rucka gave her.
That Superman 2000 brain trust included Waid, Morrison, Millar, and Tom Peyer. For those of you who are interested:
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]
[img]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/0c/e9/b70ce9bee6eb597c8dcb40f21cd31a7b.jpg[/img]
[B][U]Men of Steel: The Superman 2000 Proposal[/U]
March 8, 2018[/B]
Millenium approached and Earth’s greatest hero was falling out of touch. Since returning from the dead, Superman had also returned to a staid status quo, unable to recapture the spark, or the sales numbers, his death and resurrection generated.
At the end of the nineties, the Superman line of books was written by Dan Jurgens, Jerry Ordway, and Louise Simonson, overseen by group editor Eddie Berganza. If you don’t know Berganza’s name, it’s worth reading this fantastic Buzzfeed article on his history of sexual harassment and abuse. This is an individual who held the keys to the main Superman and Wonder Woman titles for decades, effectively ensuring some of the best female talent in the industry would never work on those books. Let’s take a second to say, Fuck Eddie Berganza.
Berganza commissioned a proposal for the Superman books from Grant Morrison, Mark Millar, Mark Waid, and Tom Peyer. Morrison was finishing a blockbuster run on JLA, and Waid had scored a hit with Kingdom Come. Millar and Peyer were the respective “lesser” partners to Morrison and Waid. Waid and Peyer started in DC editorial at the same time and had collaborated on a couple books. Morrison and Millar had a more traditional mentor-mentee relationship, one that would sour soon after. In a 2011 interview, Morrison said of Millar:
[QUOTE=Grant Morrison;5238694]I wish him well but there’s not good feeling between myself and Mark for many reasons most of which are he destroyed my faith in human fucking nature.[/QUOTE]
Waid and Morrison reputedly had a massive falling out as well, with Waid satirizing Morrison in a series called Insufferable, which he described as
[QUOTE=Mark Waid;5238694]what happens when a hero has a kid sidekick who grows up to be a “completely ungrateful, self-aggrandizing,” “douchebag” who “will not shut up about how much of a genius he is and how the world is a better place now that [the hero team] are broken up because now he can do it all the way he wanted to do it.[/QUOTE]
[B]UPDATE: As per the comments, I had bad info on this. Galahad in Insufferable is not a stand in for Morrison, with whom Waid remains good friends.[/B]
Regardless of later animosities, the four of them proposed that they would work collectively on the Superman titles, which would be relaunched on January 1st, 2000.
Two versions of their pitch exist. One is the Superman 2000 pitch, which is widely available on the internet, for instance here. The other is the Superman Now pitch, that is somehow more Morrison-centric and hasn’t been made public. I’ll be referring to the former, obviously. Although the idea there’s a version that is more Grant Morrison without being completely Grant Morrison is hard to fathom.
It’s long and detailed and founded on the idea that every fifteen years, Superman needs a massive shake-up. Morrison is on the record saying there is a fundamental cultural shift centered around eleven year solar cycles, known as the Sekhmet hypothesis, which he explores in The Invisibles and the “Riot at Xavier’s” arc of his New X-Men run, so this tracks somewhat with that. Of course, they also assert that their Superman will be “a forward-looking, intelligent, enthusiastic hero retooled to address the challenges of the next thousand years,” because no one ever accused any of these guys of being humble.
Keep in mind that, at this point in continuity, Byrne’s Man of Steel was still the canonical origin. Superman is Clark Kent, human in every practical sense. And he’s married to Lois Lane. Morrison, Millar, Peyer, and Waid intended to fundamentally change that.
[QUOTE=Unknown;5238694]The key to the initial concept lies in a radical but organic reversal of the currently accepted logic of the Superman/Clark dynamic.
In our interpretation, Clark Kent isn’t what Superman really IS, Clark is what Superman WAS — until he reached his teenage years and began to realize what all those years of soaking up the Kansas sun had done to his alien cells. Superman’s story here is seen as the tale of a Midwest farmer’s son who BECAME AN ALIEN shortly after puberty. Suddenly young Clark doesn’t just know his Ma and Pa through sight, touch, sound — he knows the exact timbre of their pulse rates, he can look at their DNA and recognize their distinctive electrical fields and hear the neural crackle and release of chemicals which tell him they’ve changed their minds about something.
And he can do all this, he can scan the entire environment in an INSTANT, with levels of perception we can only imagine.
That’s gonna turn anyone’s head around a little.
This is someone who by any stretch of the imagination is no longer just human — except for the part of him, the ethical, humanitarian base nurtured by the Kents, which forms the unshakable foundation for everything Superman is BUT WHO IS WHAT SUPERMAN CAN NO LONGER BE. Or, in other words not our own, “…who, DISGUISED as Clark Kent, fights a never-ending battle…”[/quote]
To reinforce a sense of difference and distance between Superman and Clark, the foursome proposed to massively ramp up his power set, in ways that are left largely undefined by the pitch. [I]They wanted a Superman who was an alien God, an obvious Christ figure. Not simply a superhero but an inspiration to humanity. In service to this idea, they planned to downplay his membership in the Justice League, and erase the marriage.
They also wanted to ditch the red undies.[/I]
Clark would become the place Superman goes to relax. He is what Superman remembers about being human, and one of the vantage points from which he watches humanity. But it was important that Superman and Clark be immediately distinct and distinguishable. By the end of the 90s, Clark was clearly Superman with glasses, rarely drawn to look any different in his “mild mannered mode.” Perhaps the strongest evidence for their interchangeability was the resolution of the Superman-Lois-Clark love triangle. Clark had finally become a match for his imaginary rival. He was a kind of Super Clark, and in becoming so, ceased to be a point of identification for readers, particularly the geeky male audience this pitch imagined.
[QUOTE=Unknown;5238694]To be the half of Superman which readers can actually relate to because we all ([B]Jesus, especially comics readers[/B]) want to believe that even though we may be put upon and bullied by the world from time to time, we know what those who pick on us or look down at us don’t — that if they could see behind our glasses, they’d see a Superman ([B]emphasis mine[/B])[/quote]
Yes, the “comics readers” here are dudes. And yes, presumably “those who…look down on us” are the ladies. Oh 90s comics industry, why’ve you got to 90s comics industry so hard?
(You can completely remove “90s” from the sentence above and it still works. But by the way, a stated goal of this relaunch was to dethrone Todd MacFarlane’s Spawn from the top of the sales charts.)
It’s worth noting that their Clark is also vegetarian, for ethical reasons. Morrison had a rep for animal rights activism going back to his Animal Man run, and Millar was an outspoken vegetarian, but ultimately it’d be Mark Waid who managed to sneak this bit into canon.
In a move that anticipated the events leading up to Spider-Man’s “Brand New Day” relaunch, Clark would be outed as Superman, with the revelation of his identity and the Lois and Clark marriage magicked away via Mr. Mxyzptlk. The notes on this story read like an odd amalgam of that storyline, Moore’s “Whatever Happened to…”, and Morrison’s later run on Action Comics.
Berganza was so excited about the pitch that he fired Jurgens and Ordway off the Superman books, proving that you can be a fucking asshole along multiple valences. Simonson was already off Man of Steel, and if I haven’t mentioned it, I will die on the hill that Simonson and Bogdanove’s run on Man of Steel is the secret gem of the Mullet Era. Unfortunately, DC Publisher Paul Levitz nixed the idea.
Apparently it was company policy at the time not to give top talent slots on Superman or Batman ongoing titles, for fear they’d have the clout to make actual changes to the status quo. Morrison says he was told “Do you honestly believe DC will ever give you the keys to the family car?”, and Waid claims he was told he’d never write Superman. Jurgens and Ordway were offered their jobs back and declined.
Much of the pitch would end up repurposed by Morrison in subsequent takes on the character, with a couple of the ideas for Bizarro lifted by Geoff Johns for his “Escape from Bizarro World” story (which has some amazing art by The Goon’s Eric Powell.)
Millar would write a handful of Adventures of Superman issues, using the Bruce Timm version of the character from the animated series, followed by one of the strongest Elseworld’s takes on Superman with Red Son. Peyer wrote occasional in-continuity stories for Supes under Berganza’s editing.
Mark Waid, who felt royally fucked over by the whole thing, would be hired on three years later to write an expansive, non-canonical re-telling of Superman’s origin, a version accessible to anyone who’d never read a Superman comic. By the end of the series, his story would be made the official origin of Superman. A year later, it was wiped out of continuity, and Waid would never write Superman again.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://medium.com/@bobproehl/men-of-steel-the-superman-2000-proposal-9044a49ba521[/url]
In 2003, Wizard Magazine also put out an attempt to modernize the DCU, drawing from the Marvel Ultimate line. Some of their ideas have actually appeared on film or influenced storylines like Amazons Attack.
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Their David Fincher (Se7en) approach to Batman will influence The Batman like some of their other ideas overlapped with Batman Begins.
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Some of these pitches would be good graphic novels, and the designs have clearly influenced more modern superhero costumes.
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]To reinforce a sense of difference and distance between Superman and Clark, the foursome proposed to massively ramp up his power set, in ways that are left largely undefined by the pitch. [/quote]
No real comment. The mythology and the lead's personality are more important.
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]They wanted a Superman who was an alien God, an obvious Christ figure. Not simply a superhero but an inspiration to humanity. [/quote]
Okay, if it doesn't go over the top. Clark Kent is the Steve Rogers of this universe, so he should get some level of respect.
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]In service to this idea, they planned to downplay his membership in the Justice League, [/quote]
Hard no. Marvel, The Fast Franchise, and other team films have shown there is profit in a well-developed team, opening the door to more stories without any individual mythology having to bear the full brunt of backstory or making all of the pieces fit.
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]and erase the marriage.[/quote]
If they're together, who cares...
[QUOTE=Bob Proehl;5238694]They also wanted to ditch the red undies.[/quote]
Good.
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Some of these pitches would be good graphic novels, and the designs have clearly influenced more modern superhero costumes.[/QUOTE]
That WW pitch is straight-up terrible
[QUOTE=Gaius;5241980]That WW pitch is straight-up terrible[/QUOTE]
Yes, it was, which is why when DC ripped it off with Amazon's Attack, that also sucked. Seems like they were trying to recapture what the DCAU did with Starcrossed, swapping out Hawkgirl for Wonder Woman.
[QUOTE=Gaius;5241980]That WW pitch is straight-up terrible[/QUOTE]
It is hilariously bad. I can't imagine anyone thought that was a good idea to print. Though since they were drawing inspiration from the Ultimate Marvel universe, it does seem in line with Mark Millar's "what if all the superheroes were just unlikable shitheads?" approach he took with Ultimates and X-Men.
The GL one sounds ok for one focused on John, though it also has the tired "give Hal's dynamic with Sinestro to another GL" idea.
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5242013]It is hilariously bad. I can't imagine anyone thought that was a good idea to print. Though since they were drawing inspiration from the Ultimate Marvel universe, it does seem in line with Mark Millar's "what if all the superheroes were just unlikable shitheads?" approach he took with Ultimates and X-Men.
The GL one sounds ok for one focused on John, though it also has the tired "give Hal's dynamic with Sinestro to another GL" idea.[/QUOTE]
They could always have swapped Parallax for Sinestro.
[QUOTE=SecretWarrior;5242007]Yes, it was, which is why when DC ripped it off with Amazon's Attack, that also sucked. Seems like they were trying to recapture what the DCAU did with Starcrossed, swapping out Hawkgirl for Wonder Woman.[/QUOTE]
Looks like they also nicked "evil Wally West" for [I]Heroes in Crisis.[/I] :p
[QUOTE=SiegePerilous02;5242013]It is hilariously bad. I can't imagine anyone thought that was a good idea to print. Though since they were drawing inspiration from the Ultimate Marvel universe, it does seem in line with Mark Millar's "what if all the superheroes were just unlikable shitheads?" approach he took with Ultimates and X-Men.
The GL one sounds ok for one focused on John, though it also has the tired "give Hal's dynamic with Sinestro to another GL" idea.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this definitely reads "the only DC stuff I've read is Batman, some Superman, and [I]Kingdom Come[/I]".
[QUOTE=Gaius;5242039]Yeah, this definitely reads "the only DC stuff I've read is Batman, some Superman, and [I]Kingdom Come[/I]".[/QUOTE]
The Superman pitch seems to draw from [I]Smallville[/I] and STAS.
The Batman pitch draws from [I]Se7en[/I]. The Joker storyline lines up with what would happen with Red Hood later on.
(Maybe someday a version of the Joker will resemble Tyler Durden, another character from a David Fincher adaptation. Maybe that's what Leto was trying to do and failed.)
The Wonder Woman pitch is just [I]Starcrossed[/I] from JLU.
The Green Lantern pitch is [I]Training Day[/I].
The Flash pitch is part [I]Law and Order: CSI[/I] and part [I]The Terminator[/I] or [I]Terminator 2: Judgment Day[/I].