Understanding the Motivations Behind KRAKOA, and the Dawn of X

[QUOTE=loke13;4735566]That's not an issue. That's the point. Uncanny is largely irrelevant. We don't need to see the journey because it's not that important.

And come on now...this isn't an AU we went through all this with HoX. This is the 616 not some alternate future that's gonna SUDDENLY be reset years down the line. This is the current X-Men universe. Get used to it.[/QUOTE]

No, I disagree, I think it is important; it's a massive shift in the status quo, if anything it's [I]more[/I] important now to show even a glimpse of how some characters got from A to B in terms of thinking because it further informs [I]why[/I] what's going on now is so important and gives us all proper context for how the characters are feeling/thinking.

If anything, it's just lazy to hand-wave it away and unhelpful; it won't help readers who feel that disconnect in any way and, therefore, won't stop wonderings about how/when/if this new direction will deviate.

[QUOTE=Vegan Daddy;4735458]Aren’t mutants going to wonder how they died? Will they be okay with having their memory tampered with? What if they were ripped from heaven or some other afterlife? What if they don’t like Krakoa? Reintegrating into the human world will be dangerous and cost money they don’t have.

Look, I like Hox/Pox and the idea of resurrection. I just think on a human level it’s really messy and complicated and I’d like to see at least one mutant be like ‘what the f*** is this? I wish I was still dead!’[/QUOTE]

They can't be ripped from Heaver or any afterlife, as they are the souls copies. They were copied hile they were on earth

[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4735641]No, I disagree, I think it is important; it's a massive shift in the status quo, if anything it's [I]more[/I] important now to show even a glimpse of how some characters got from A to B in terms of thinking because it further informs [I]why[/I] what's going on now is so important and gives us all proper context for how the characters are feeling/thinking.

If anything, it's just lazy to hand-wave it away and unhelpful; it won't help readers who feel that disconnect in any way and, therefore, won't stop wonderings about how/when/if this new direction will deviate.[/QUOTE]

We are seeing some Uncanny consequences over Marauders. So i thas some importance.

Hickman usually go to A to C without crossing B, it creates a big disconnect with the characters we are reading

This is a massive change on their lifes and lives POV

[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4735641]No, I disagree, I think it is important; it's a massive shift in the status quo, if anything it's [I]more[/I] important now to show even a glimpse of how some characters got from A to B in terms of thinking because it further informs [I]why[/I] what's going on now is so important and gives us all proper context for how the characters are feeling/thinking.

If anything, it's just lazy to hand-wave it away and unhelpful; it won't help readers who feel that disconnect in any way and, therefore, won't stop wonderings about how/when/if this new direction will deviate.[/QUOTE]

I agree, everything that comes as unexplained is polluting the narrative. People, maybe not all, are keeping wondering why it is this way, thinking about unanswered questions instead of being in the story. Hickman should have cleaned the scenery before beginning the play. It is OK to mislead people but not remaining vague.

[QUOTE=loke13;4735566]That's not an issue. That's the point. Uncanny is largely irrelevant. We don't need to see the journey because it's not that important.

And come on now...this isn't an AU we went through all this with HoX. This is the 616 not some alternate future that's gonna SUDDENLY be reset years down the line. This is the current X-Men universe. Get used to it.[/QUOTE]

Was House of M presented as an AU?

I think some y'all are just trying WAY too hard to find fault.

[QUOTE=AbnormallyNormal;4735557]… WHY would Xavier and Magneto act the way they had in 616 IF they had met with Moira way back when and she showed them all this info?...

… Why wouldn't they have immediately started banding together and trying to establish a mutant stronghold right away?...

… (you have to bend your mind into pretzels and say insane stuff like "actually Genosha being destroyed was a good thing and all part of helping mutants, also Xavier and Magneto constantly fighting each other and seemingly being totally oblivious and unaware of Moira's grand plan is the secret path to total cooperation"). ...[/QUOTE]

See Entry 52, then 57:

[QUOTE=Heroine Addict;4734956][CENTER][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/HHAcHRa.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER][/QUOTE]

[B]AND[/B], with that:

[QUOTE=Heroine Addict;4735028]I'm under the impression that Moira's Journal is a sequential recording of her 10th life eXperiences only. The last two entries shown are [B]when Magneto turned against them[/B], which [B]would've been prior to the events of 1963's XM #1[/B], and then finally when she seemingly died pre-[B]Genoshan genocide, HoM, etc.[/B] I'm still [B]not sure any of those specific tragedies happened in her prior lives, as everything in the 616 timeline up to HoX & through to DoX, took place in -- and were possibly unique to -- her latest reincarnation[/B].[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Domino_Dare-Doll;4735641]No, I disagree, I think it is important; it's a massive shift in the status quo, if anything it's [I]more[/I] important now to show even a glimpse of how some characters got from A to B in terms of thinking because it further informs [I]why[/I] what's going on now is so important and gives us all proper context for how the characters are feeling/thinking.

If anything, it's just lazy to hand-wave it away and unhelpful; it won't help readers who feel that disconnect in any way and, therefore, won't stop wonderings about how/when/if this new direction will deviate.[/QUOTE]

I definitely want to see A to B as well, but i dont think its due to laziness on Hickman or editorial's part; this is intended to be a fresh start, and they know that a lot of their readership wasnt pleased with the goings on pre-HOX so they wanted to separate it from that. I think Hickman's mentioned in interviews that he plans to show us snippets of the in-between moments we werent shown, he just didnt do that work off the bat because it was irrelevant [I]at the time[/I], and he really wanted to separate the status quo then from the status quo now

Seems like a good time to revisit some aspects of the resurrection process:

[CENTER][IMG]https://i.imgur.com/7SFcCHp.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/vAwHcGE.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/gcD2bTz.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[QUOTE=houndsofluv;4735199]thank you for this thread!! completely agree with what you're putting down and love the references you pulled out - [B]i love to see people not slagging off krakoa[/B]...[/QUOTE]

You're welcome, and thank YOU!! Glad to hear we're of like mind. [B]Same[/B], also, and thought it was MUCH needed at this time.

[QUOTE=houndsofluv;4735732]… I think Hickman's mentioned in interviews that he plans to show us snippets of the in-between moments we werent shown...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, when it comes to fillin' in some of the blanks, I figure we'll be accommodated sooner or later. No biggie anyway, it's not like there hasn't been abrupt transitioning before, with past relaunches.

[QUOTE=Heroine Addict;4735762]



Yeah, when it comes to fillin' in some of the blanks, I figure we'll be accommodated sooner or later. No biggie anyway, it's not like there hasn't been abrupt transitioning before, with past relaunches.[/QUOTE]
Or that the previous status quo was very riveting

[QUOTE=houndsofluv;4735732]I definitely want to see A to B as well, but i dont think its due to laziness on Hickman or editorial's part; this is intended to be a fresh start, and they know that a lot of their readership wasnt pleased with the goings on pre-HOX so they wanted to separate it from that. I think Hickman's mentioned in interviews that he plans to show us snippets of the in-between moments we werent shown, he just didnt do that work off the bat because it was irrelevant [I]at the time[/I], and he really wanted to separate the status quo then from the status quo now[/QUOTE]

I understand what you're saying, but honestly I think the approach he's taken in doing that could have been [I]so[/I] much less convoluted and actually dealt with twice as quickly. Even just one issue establishing a clean break, picking up from where was left [I]without[/I] actually having to delve into it too deeply, would have helped establish this new status quo from a much stronger position. Literally just gather all who where left in Rosenberg's cast in a room, after a vague reaction about who/what they've lost in such a drastic manner (that goes on for no more than a page or two at that) with Xavier from wherever he's descended from anyway, I don't know, and [I]tell us[/I] that things are going to change. A vague mention of needing to be united; boom, the ball's rolling in the same direction in a much more efficient manner and without negating any of the stakes.

I know it's opinion but, honestly, that's just what it feels like a bit--that the overall concept is being bogged down by unnecessary convolution and raising more questions than actually needed.

Again, Hickman wrote House of X and Powers of 10 several months before Rosenberg wrote his story. He can't react to something that didn't exist.

[QUOTE=Omega Alpha;4736301]Again, Hickman wrote House of X and Powers of 10 several months before Rosenberg wrote his story. He can't react to something that didn't exist.[/QUOTE]
Oh sh!t forreals?

[QUOTE=Omega Alpha;4736301]Again, Hickman wrote House of X and Powers of 10 several months before Rosenberg wrote his story. He can't react to something that didn't exist.[/QUOTE]

Still, he hasn't written it in stone.

My take...from the OP

It's not that Xavier's dream was wrong per se...it was quite noble and idealistic.
It's just that its implementation was somewhat misguided (because...human nature) which resulted in all those Lives ending the way they did...and why Xavier and Erik and ALL Mutantdom had to attempt a new and different path, envision a reformatted Dream along the lines of "United We Stand...Divided We Fall."
What always seemed to defeat the mutants as a race in the end is the constant infighting, among themselves, against each other. X-Men vs Magneto vs Apocalypse vs Humans vs X-Men vs Humans vs Marauders vs...without end, with no one ever being the clear victor.
Now...under Krakoa they seem united under a single Goal...eventhough they each have their own motivation and agenda, it is within the parametres of The Dream where the survival of ALL Mutants good and bad is of paramount importance.

[QUOTE=Zelena;4736989]Still, he hasn't written it in stone.[/QUOTE]

sure. Duggan referenced it, even Hickman referenced it too