It's been 3 years since rebirth...

it has been 3 years? ah how time flies away......
*Dr Manhattan whistles*

[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;4390667]I think the setup and launch of Rebirth was great. Everything since has been a mess. You can tell there is a definite clash in direction between what Johns was setting up and what Didio/Lee want, and unfortunetly Johns got steamrolled and his original plan has been bastardized into the current mess we have right now. The more power Johns loss in the office the worse the way things have been going has gotten. Love him or hate him Johns at least seemed to have a mapped out plan of what he wanted to do while Didio/Lee have no plan at all and just jump from one big idea to the next with no thought or long term plan.[/QUOTE]

Thirded....

I think it was an ill conceived idea on Johns' part considering he knew full well that Didio would want to tear it apart and leave us worse off than before in some ways. Save your bold new direction for an editorial and such environment that'll want to see it through.

I stuck with Rebirth for about 6 months before giving up.

It just felt to me like the DC universe was too broken to ever feel whole for me again.

New 52 was already a mess, with some characters keeping their pre-Flashpoint continuity, some being rebooted completely, and some mixed.

Then with Rebirth it got even more confusing, with some different characters having a different mix of their pre-Flashpoint, New 52, and Rebirth continuity, plus bits and bobs of stories from all over. I just have no idea what Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman's actually backstory is supposed to be now.

Like, Wonder Woman's New 52 Amazons were revealed to have been an illusion. So does that mean that story did or didn't happen? And does that mean the 'real' Amazons are the pre-Flashpoint versions? Or new versions? Or god forbid the pre-Crisis versions?

It was easier to just stop caring and buy more Marvel instead.

Rebirth wasn't perfect but it was what fully revitalized my interest in DC comics. I kinda wish it had ended on as strong a note that it started on because right now, DC is slowly starting to lose me again. Just hanging on by a thread right now. Every time I think I'm done, I end up finding small reasons to stay for the moment xD

and they !@$#%ed up the original Dr Fate again :eek:

[QUOTE=Cowtools;4391268]I stuck with Rebirth for about 6 months before giving up.

It just felt to me like the DC universe was too broken to ever feel whole for me again.

New 52 was already a mess, with some characters keeping their pre-Flashpoint continuity, some being rebooted completely, and some mixed.

Then with Rebirth it got even more confusing, with some different characters having a different mix of their pre-Flashpoint, New 52, and Rebirth continuity, plus bits and bobs of stories from all over. I just have no idea what Superman or Batman or Wonder Woman's actually backstory is supposed to be now.

Like, Wonder Woman's New 52 Amazons were revealed to have been an illusion. So does that mean that story did or didn't happen? And does that mean the 'real' Amazons are the pre-Flashpoint versions? Or new versions? Or god forbid the pre-Crisis versions?

It was easier to just stop caring and buy more Marvel instead.[/QUOTE]

The Amazons are new versions since they have a really different history than either Pre or Post Crisis versions.

As a fan of New 52 Superman, not happy with it. Especially the way they tried to "fix" the marriage issue by "merging" the two Supermen. I get that the marriage was more popular than having him be single. And I don't have a problem with it. But they could not have screwed that up worse if they tried. It's like they just didn't want to deal with it so they just said "Eh, we'll just merge them and move on". But of course it's not a real merger. It's just the pre-[I]Flashpoint[/I] Superman who wore the armor for all of five minutes in his career. Nothing of New 52 Superman remains. The convoluted continuity really doesn't interest me. Especially since New 52 Superman had one of the best origins Superman ever had. Which, of course, is now gone.

Rebirth brought me back to comics. Its sabotage is pushing me back out because it's clear DC doesn't want to tell the kind of stories I want to read anymore.

[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;4390667]I think the setup and launch of Rebirth was great. Everything since has been a mess. You can tell there is a definite clash in direction between what Johns was setting up and what Didio/Lee want, and unfortunetly Johns got steamrolled and his original plan has been bastardized into the current mess we have right now. The more power Johns loss in the office the worse the way things have been going has gotten. Love him or hate him Johns at least seemed to have a mapped out plan of what he wanted to do while Didio/Lee have no plan at all and just jump from one big idea to the next with no thought or long term plan.[/QUOTE] Agreed with this completely. You could tell a clear shift started to happen and everything Johns seemed to be working to was ignored. Now we are back to just telling stories and paying no attention to continuity between books what so ever. My hope is somehow after Doomsday Clock is over Johns finds a way to overall architect the DC Universe's direction. Because unfortunately we have already seen the alternative with Didio and Lee just letting everyone do whatever they want.

I think it was successful in giving the characters a reset back to clear versions of who the characters are, what their basic relationships are, etc. It has resulted in a weird continuity mishmash but that has allowed them to pick and choose the best elements of the previous continuities, which is nice.

I do think a lot of the expected through-line from the Rebirth Special has withered on the vine though. I just re-read the Rebirth one-shot a few days ago and was surprised by how much of it already seems out of date.

[QUOTE=superduperman;4391770]As a fan of New 52 Superman, not happy with it. Especially the way they tried to "fix" the marriage issue by "merging" the two Supermen. I get that the marriage was more popular than having him be single. And I don't have a problem with it. But they could not have screwed that up worse if they tried. It's like they just didn't want to deal with it so they just said "Eh, we'll just merge them and move on". But of course it's not a real merger. It's just the pre-[I]Flashpoint[/I] Superman who wore the armor for all of five minutes in his career. Nothing of New 52 Superman remains. The convoluted continuity really doesn't interest me. Especially since New 52 Superman had one of the best origins Superman ever had. Which, of course, is now gone.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly how I felt. It wasn't even like I was extremely attached to the New 52 Superman; it just seemed like such a cop out to be like 'Oh well the last 5 years don't count' for him and no other characters

[QUOTE=Restingvoice;4391542]The Amazons are new versions since they have a really different history than either Pre or Post Crisis versions.[/QUOTE]

Okay, well there you go.
So WW's backstory is entirely new
Superman's is essentially the same as pre-Flashpoint
Batman's is a mix of pre-Flashpoint and New 52

So how in the hell am I supposed to buy into there being a coherent shared backstory for these three? Let alone the rest of the universe?

[QUOTE=Cowtools;4392677]Okay, well there you go.
So WW's backstory is entirely new
Superman's is essentially the same as pre-Flashpoint
Batman's is a mix of pre-Flashpoint and New 52

So how in the hell am I supposed to buy into there being a coherent shared backstory for these three? Let alone the rest of the universe?[/QUOTE]

Does a coherent shared backstory matter if the current present stories are good (not saying they are good, just asking if they were good or great would the continuity not referenced in the story really bug you that much)?

[QUOTE=Zero Hunter;4390667]I think the setup and launch of Rebirth was great. Everything since has been a mess. You can tell there is a definite clash in direction between what Johns was setting up and what Didio/Lee want, and unfortunetly Johns got steamrolled and his original plan has been bastardized into the current mess we have right now. The more power Johns loss in the office the worse the way things have been going has gotten. Love him or hate him Johns at least seemed to have a mapped out plan of what he wanted to do while Didio/Lee have no plan at all and just jump from one big idea to the next with no thought or long term plan.[/QUOTE]
100%AGREE.

My complaint about Rebirth wasn't the premise, it's that it failed to deliver on the promise.
Rebirth made the characters charming and likeable again. To root for a character I have to LIKE the character.

Sadly, Rebirth has slowly digressed back to the morose tone of nu52. And so far has failed to deliver on JSA or Legion.