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I think Didio was “bad” for Dick in that he stumbled twice into okaying utterly fantastic runs for the characters, and then would undermine it afterwards.
Pre-Didio, Dick generally had consistency, though not the highs of the Didio years; even the bad run with Devin Grayson, was more of a slow slide into a nadir than an abrupt right hand turn. And using Didio’s time as editor, he interrupted both DickBats and Special Agent Grayson largely out of editorial stubbornness.
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All the same people who complain about Dick being “too batfamily” LOVE the Tomasis run. I like it as well. But it’s truly the most Bat centric run. Who are his villains? Bat villains. Who are his supporting cast? Tim, Alfred and Bruce.
People are looking to hate. This run is the best of both worlds. Bat fam and wider DCU. It embraces all of his roles and connections.
Didio only lucked into two good Grayson runs. BandR because Morrison pushed it and he had pull. Grayson because he wanted Dick out of the way for Snyders run. His hate for Grayson is well documented. He was holding the character back. NIGHTWING is in a much better position now than he was with Didio in charge.
I know everyone has opinions but it’s straight facts Devin Grayson sucked for the character. If you think any different, you lose your fan card. Quite honestly, if you think Didio was good for Dick than your either delusional or accept the worst form of revisionist history. Please, oh please, tell me Taylor’s runs faults. I guarantee they were worse during the Didio era. Not enough tension or threats? Well your in luck with Didio, because everyone can beat up Nightwing.
I HAVE TO BE IN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE for someone to miss Didio and Devin Grayson Nightwing.
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I don't think anyone here wants Devin Grayson era Nightwing back (even if Taylor iirc named here as one of his biggest influences), I think most of us who are bored by Taylor want more something along the lines of Dixon, Thoamsi or Seeley.
And while the flaws of Taylors run a pretty different from the Devin Grayson run, the run is still flawed.
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[QUOTE=Iclifton;6482557]All the same people who complain about Dick being “too batfamily” LOVE the Tomasis run. I like it as well. But it’s truly the most Bat centric run. Who are his villains? Bat villains. Who are his supporting cast? Tim, Alfred and Bruce.[/QUOTE]
Finally, someone said it!
Tomasi's run is... Fine. Like everything Tomasi has written, it's... Fine. Genuinely don't understand why it's considered a high watermark in the character's publishing history.
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[QUOTE=Godlike13;6480628]If WB didn’t screw up the movie division as badly as they did we probably would have already seen a Nightwing movie. Its not that Nightwing is particularly hard to adapt, it’s that almost everything has been hard for them to adapt.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the problem is that they constantly reboot Batman before they even introduce Robin. And no Robin means no Nightwing. At least Gunn's reboot will start with Batman later in his career, with Damian as Robin. That means Dick should be able to appear early on, and as Nightwing.
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[QUOTE=Digifiend;6482664]Yeah, the problem is that they constantly reboot Batman before they even introduce Robin. And no Robin means no Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
It's not just that. The problem is, that the last three Batman directors had no interest in Robin and Bat-Family as a concept. Nolan hates it, because he prefers more grounded take, Snyder, obviously, hates it, because it doesn't fit with his ''great artistic vision'' and he preferred Dick to be dead Robin instead of Jason, and Reeves... I know he said, that he was interested in introducing Robin, but his Batman take is also more grounded, I just don't see Robin there. Gunn is the first person in 26 years, who actually has real plans for Robin in movies, and I'm sure for Nightwing as well, since Dick is a huge part of Morrison run.
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[QUOTE=Morgoth;6482718]It's not just that. The problem is, that the last three Batman directors had no interest in Robin and Bat-Family as a concept. Nolan hates it, because he prefers more grounded take, Snyder, obviously, hates it, because it doesn't fit with his ''great artistic vision'' and he preferred Dick to be dead Robin instead of Jason, and Reeves... I know he said, that he was interested in introducing Robin, but his Batman take is also more grounded, I just don't see Robin there. Gunn is the first person in 26 years, who actually has real plans for Robin in movies, and I'm sure for Nightwing as well, since Dick is a huge part of Morrison run.[/QUOTE]
However, the part of Dick in Morrison run will likely go to Bruce, since Gunn is interested in Batman and Robin. I don't think Gunn has so much interest in Nightwing.
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[QUOTE=Konja7;6482739]However, the part of Dick in Morrison run will likely go to Bruce, since Gunn is interested in Batman and Robin. I don't think Gunn has so much interest in Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
Who is to say which characters James Gunn is interested in. This is the guy that choose to have Polka-Dot Man is his movie.
Also, He already hinted at Nightwing being on his universe a bunch of times.
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[QUOTE=Iclifton;6482557]All the same people who complain about Dick being “too batfamily” LOVE the Tomasis run. I like it as well. But it’s truly the most Bat centric run. Who are his villains? Bat villains. Who are his supporting cast? Tim, Alfred and Bruce.
People are looking to hate. This run is the best of both worlds. Bat fam and wider DCU. It embraces all of his roles and connections.
Didio only lucked into two good Grayson runs. BandR because Morrison pushed it and he had pull. Grayson because he wanted Dick out of the way for Snyders run. His hate for Grayson is well documented. He was holding the character back. NIGHTWING is in a much better position now than he was with Didio in charge.
I know everyone has opinions but it’s straight facts Devin Grayson sucked for the character. If you think any different, you lose your fan card. Quite honestly, if you think Didio was good for Dick than your either delusional or accept the worst form of revisionist history. Please, oh please, tell me Taylor’s runs faults. I guarantee they were worse during the Didio era. Not enough tension or threats? Well your in luck with Didio, because everyone can beat up Nightwing.
I HAVE TO BE IN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE for someone to miss Didio and Devin Grayson Nightwing.[/QUOTE]
I don't have a problem with the Batfamily or the Titans so much the execution.
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[QUOTE=Drako;6481921]Ric Grayson sold well enough, Devin Grayson is one of the most important writers of Nightwing. What is next, Didio was just misunderstood?[/QUOTE]
I just noticed that i got a bingo here.
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[QUOTE=Drako;6482744]Who is to say which characters James Gunn is interested in. This is the guy that choose to have Polka-Dot Man is his movie.
Also, He already hinted at Nightwing being on his universe a bunch of times.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah. I mean, I assume nothing until I get the official announcement, and I have no idea what Gunn's personal opinion on the character is, but right now I'd be pretty surprised if Dick doesn't show up fairly quick. Gunn already said the family would be in B&R, what're the odds of Dick not being included? In my mind it's more 'when' than 'if' and how big a role he'll play; any solo films or ensemble/supporting cast only?
Tim Chalamet for the role.
[QUOTE=Drako;6482897]I just noticed that i got a bingo here.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's weird seeing anyone defend Didio when it comes to Nightwing. The guy tried to kill him off multiple times, kept quality talent away from him, sabotaged him at nearly every turn and marginalized him constantly, all because of a personal bias.....the fact that we basically stumbled into a couple good runs doesn't mean a thing. Whether Didio had a moment of lucidity, or whether WB told him to do it, or whether the successes just caught him by surprise....I don't care. I don't hate the man like a lot of posters do, or blame him for some stuff y'all do. But when it comes to Nightwing there was clear bias and it hurt the company. That shit is unforgivable in my mind.
Some of y'all might not like the current run, and I get it, but let's not church it up.
And Ric *did* sell consistently for a big chunk of the saga, with lower attrition than other books would've gotten. Made me so mad. We kept rewarding DC for that effort by giving them money, but the best thing we could have done was drop the book and put that money towards Nightwing merchandise instead.
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[QUOTE=Ascended;6483109]
And Ric *did* sell consistently for a big chunk of the saga, with lower attrition than other books would've gotten. Made me so mad. We kept rewarding DC for that effort by giving them money, but the best thing we could have done was drop the book and put that money towards Nightwing merchandise instead.[/QUOTE]
This can be considered as a good or bad thing because on one hand it was a horrible story and should have never lasted as long as it did, but on the other hand it proved Dick's selling power. I don't think many characters would have been able to sell enough books with such an awful story without being cancelled after like 10 issues.
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Ric sold consistently poor. At its highest it only sold around 30 and then it fell to all time lows. Attrition slowed because it was falling through its sales floor and they were heavily using tie-in to keep it a float. No one was rewarding DC, shops were just ordering based on the title and the constant tie-ins. It only went on as long as it did because Harras was able to put his people on it and 5g was going reboot the line.
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I would be shocked if Gunn doesn't have plans for Nightwing if the Bat-Family is a priority. And I'm very excited for it. I know we're in this very weird transition stage, but I think it'll be worth the wait.
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Tomasi
Morrison
Dini
Snyder
Snyder/Higgins
Higgins
Seeley/King
Seeley