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[QUOTE=Vworp Vworp;220702]It's Superman book co-starring possibly the blandest written Wonder Woman the DCU has ever witnessed. There are peripheral characters in comedy sketch shows who only appear only to feed lines that have more personality than Diana has had in this book. Most of her dialogue comes across like flat speech-making, with a tone lifted straight from every sword and sorcery film that took itself way too seriously - but there's never any little moments of [I]her[/I] in there.
She's like an empty shell, operating purely on auto-pilot - [I]Make doe-eyes at Clark in 8 seconds; Deploy Speech No.342; Execute Fight Sequence Four-Alpha; Recharge.[/I]
So, no. Not a fan.[/QUOTE]
To each their own I guess. I love her character in this book series so far.
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This is what I wrote for the SM forum. Repost it here.
Enjoying it a lot and hope it gets a chance after this crossover to settle down to go back to it's own thing. Also as someone says you cannot compare it to titles some who are going into 3 years. Those same titles at #9 ( this is where this is at) for example was not being hailed as the best run ever. In fact the WW title had some people screaming blue murder by #7 because of the bomb Azz dropped and those Gods people love now, people knew very little about them.
Daniel draws the best Diana in my opinion. No reason to jump on me like some have others to argue otherwise...it is my opinion. He keeps her strong but does not need to take away her femininity ie her curves to do that. As a female reader I appreciate that you can keep a woman as womanly and sexy without overt cheesecake and yet she still looks strong and badass. His PI looked amazing. The first I saw Themyscira in the new 52 looking like paradise. He does tend to draw things big and splashy sure but that gives the book this big blockbuster type quality. I think he's better than Lee is some areas. His women and men don't all look the same etc and he gets expression a bit better. His action scenes perhaps could use some work but the guy can show emotion. His last page in #6 was hard hitting and it was a simple drawing. Soule for me writes the best Diana. He gets her in a holistic way. Azz gets the messianic, stoic Diana but not the young woman with other aspects to her. Soule also has been updating classic WW aspects from the jet to Dooms Doorway while respecting what Azz has laid down. The relationship is unfolding even while respecting their differences. I wouldn't mind some lighter moments for the pair ie more injection of humor etc but the current arc is a serious one so hopefully after this we can see the pair just more relaxed and just taking on some baddies and fighting together and enjoying it. It's showing how effective the two worlds of characters with myth and sci-fi can work. And it's refreshing that two heroes who are strong can darn well remain the power houses they are because their foes can work for each other. I want to see Superman deal with more myth and magic. Diana dealing with Zod, Faora (and soon Brainiac)....it feels natural. The cliched argument that these two are too strong and there can't be good stories can be challenged with a series like this because together and even the DCU has many foes that are a good match up for them and of course it's via these adventures you can see the growing aspect of their relationship. So win/win for me and I know many others. It's good to see the book getting solid reviews too via proper comic sites. I'm curious now to see what they have planned after Doomed.
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I love it. I've been teased with a Superman/Wonder Woman relationship all my life and to see it finally come together so epically, is the best part of the New 52.
Soule is a great writer, but Tony S. Daniel is phenomenal! His is the best Diana we've seen in a very long time.
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[QUOTE=Vanguard-01;218812]Maybe not. But there are official "Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple" merchandise, and their sales may tell DC that keeping them as a comics couple is still worth doing.
I'm not a financial expert, so I have no idea how DC perceives their sales information. You may be right, or I may be right.[/QUOTE]
You bring up a very good point. This is the first time in a long time I have ever seen obvious couple's merchandising be it via statues, toys, clothing, accessories and other products. DC are putting them out there. They are becoming apart of pop culture no matter even if he is with Lois. They are are being branded. Just look at Hot Topic alone and it's selling. Also even if DC did break them up, I think fans are going to be very naive if they think they will never fan that flame again or use the chance to create tension. Even when Clark was married to Lois we had stories teasing sm/ww now he has actual history with Diana and SM/WW always seem to have this thing about becoming that future concrete pairing to create a legacy. So I think whether they break up now, or not it does not "end" there. They have potential for the future too. DC are not stupid. They are cementing a fan base for them now and the amazing thing is this without any live media other than JL War which was a tease. If DC gives this couple more live action time ...they will not be ending soon.
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The writing is pretty mediocre - the dialogue between the eponymous pairing can be laughable at times. Soule can most definitely do much better. And the art is too stiff. Also, Wonder Woman is a supporting character way too often. Soule should work on that. But at least, his Wonder Woman is much better than the horrendous take on the character by Bruce Timm, the last person to really push forward a Wonder Woman pairing with a superhero.
Overall, it's still one of the better books DC puts out right now.
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[QUOTE=Vworp Vworp;220702]It's Superman book co-starring possibly the blandest written Wonder Woman the DCU has ever witnessed. There are peripheral characters in comedy sketch shows who only appear only to feed lines that have more personality than Diana has had in this book. Most of her dialogue comes across like flat speech-making, with a tone lifted straight from every sword and sorcery film that took itself way too seriously - but there's never any little moments of [I]her[/I] in there.
She's like an empty shell, operating purely on auto-pilot - [I]Make doe-eyes at Clark in 8 seconds; Deploy Speech No.342; Execute Fight Sequence Four-Alpha; Recharge.[/I]
So, no. Not a fan.[/QUOTE]
yep WW come out of this comic like a robotic warrior with little to no personality
[QUOTE=misslane;221283]Jeez. With that kind of criticism, saying that it's still one of DC's better books makes DC's current lineup sound extraordinarily poor.[/QUOTE]
DC books aren't so good buut aren't so awful either.
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Vworp Vworp said it better than I could possibly say, my biggest criticism is that she's just...boring, Superman too, but I'm not familiar with the Superman much so IDK if Superman just isn't for me or if he's being written poorly.
Not a fan of the art too, the fight-scenes are especially bad, most of the time I can't tell what's going on and they just look stiff, I also don't like how Tony Daniel draws faces.
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On the positive side of things Superman and Wonder Woman is mostly entertaining - the art overall is well done and the story and dialogue for the most part flow smoothly. The plot or what what resembles a plot is rather thin as the comic is meant to focus it seems on their relationship and because of that the story at times is somewhat weak. There are flaws with some of the characterization of the couple that I find rather odd, but this could just be my personal bias. The comic could be improved but by no means is it the worst of the comics that DC has put out during the new52 run.
I think any comic almost that stars one of the big 3 characters from DC in some kind of relation will do well sales wise as long as the art and story remains entertaining - and here you have 2 of the big 3 in a relationship that has always been hinted about over the years - if this comic was let say Batman and Wonder Woman it probably would sell just as well if not better for the short term - not that Batman would ever be able to really last in such a relationship.
Overall entertaining - it is not like DC will truly ever let any of the big 3 truly get married to each other.
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[QUOTE=Step;221732]Vworp Vworp said it better than I could possibly say, my biggest criticism is that she's just...boring, Superman too, but I'm not familiar with the Superman much so IDK if Superman just isn't for me or if he's being written poorly.
Not a fan of the art too, the fight-scenes are especially bad, most of the time I can't tell what's going on and they just look stiff, I also don't like how Tony Daniel draws faces.[/QUOTE]
At least for me Superman is not being well written. Anyway a relationship between smww would make them boring, where is the edge? no edge= boring relationship. both characters boring.
Daniel art is better than many artists at DC today, but his expressions are so deprived of life, so lifeless. Also his fight scenes are pretty bad on the movement.
about sales the book lost sales just too much, meanwhile poison ivy and harley quinn are rocking the boat
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A general warning to one and all.
Whereas we do invite opinions on all sides of an issue, the tolerance for jumping into threads and repeating the same negative criticisms over and over again is pretty low.
So if you have something new to add, be it positive, negative or neutral? Feel free. Want to debate a topic? Go to town.
But if you just want to bash a book, a character or an idea repeatedly without adding anything new?
Don't.
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Love it. She's written a little different in this book compared to her own book by Azzarello, but that book is also a different type of story. I'm glad the book is doing well as I look forward to their further adventures together.
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I never really liked how WW's voice was different between Azzarello's vision and her in other books, but I chalked it up to creative differences and a lack of consistent editorial enforcement. That said, I think the general consensus on SM/WW as a book is:
- Those who like the pairing will like the book
- Those who are legitimately on the fence could probably be convinced without much trouble that it is a decent to good book.
- Those who dislike the pairing will remain unconvinced
If you look around this thread (or any Superman/Wonder Woman thread, really), you'll be able to tell who falls into which camp pretty easily. I personally think that the book is pretty decent at telling its story and I read it. I do think that Soule's WW is more of a bridge between Azzarello's and WW in the new 52 at large, which I think is important to make her seem more like a reasonable integrated part of a shared universe.
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[QUOTE=Sillia;225210]I never really liked how WW's voice was different between Azzarello's vision and her in other books, but I chalked it up to creative differences and a lack of consistent editorial enforcement. That said, I think the general consensus on SM/WW as a book is:
- Those who like the pairing will like the book
- Those who are legitimately on the fence could probably be convinced without much trouble that it is a decent to good book.
- Those who dislike the pairing will remain unconvinced
[/QUOTE]
This is essentially saying the book is about the relationship and nothing else. So if you like the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman being together or not, you probably won't care how their characters are written.
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[QUOTE=brettc1;225755]This is essentially saying the book is about the relationship and nothing else. So if you like the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman being together or not, you probably won't care how their characters are written.[/QUOTE]
Just like if you hate the relationship, you pretty much approached the book determined to hate every panel of it and intent on seeing nothing but negative points and slights against your favorite character where there are, in fact, none at all.
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[QUOTE=brettc1;225755]This is essentially saying the book is about the relationship and nothing else. So if you like the idea of Superman and Wonder Woman being together or not, you probably won't care how their characters are written.[/QUOTE]
Well, I can tell you from my own personal experience that I haven't seen a single person who loves the relationship negatively criticize this book and I also haven't seen a single person who hates the relationship have anything good to say about it either.
While I'd prefer that Diana was with Steve, I don't mind her being with Superman so I'm along for the ride for now especially since I think that Soule has done some great work with both Wonder Woman and Superman so far.
